WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.050 --> 00:00:01.660 Madison Estes: A chat, and it can get 2 00:00:02.780 --> 00:00:05.900 Madison Estes: a little difficult to keep up, so that would be great. Thank you. 3 00:00:07.485 --> 00:00:17.490 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: No worries. Sorry, I think, that we have started already, so people will start joining at any point. 4 00:00:17.930 --> 00:00:22.120 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Maybe we can, if you want to take a 5 00:00:22.550 --> 00:00:27.360 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: like 5 or something before, and you can just turn your camera off, and I'll 6 00:00:27.590 --> 00:00:28.910 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: get everyone 7 00:00:29.990 --> 00:00:31.080 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: a 8 00:00:31.330 --> 00:00:34.560 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: ready and hyped up. 9 00:00:37.430 --> 00:00:42.760 Madison Estes: I will. I'm gonna shoot Mario a message real quick. Just a little reminder. 10 00:00:43.930 --> 00:00:48.179 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: No worries. We have 10 min before we start, but. 11 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:53.150 E.R. Bills: Oh, well, I'm hopped up. I really liked your story. Promises, promises. Mario. 12 00:00:55.670 --> 00:00:57.949 Madison Estes: Mario's in the group. I don't see him. 13 00:00:59.890 --> 00:01:01.180 E.R. Bills: That's not Mario. 14 00:01:03.300 --> 00:01:03.640 E.R. Bills: Yeah. 15 00:01:06.710 --> 00:01:07.470 E.R. Bills: Oh, yeah. 16 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:08.960 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: I have no idea 17 00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:11.030 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: that should change. 18 00:01:11.030 --> 00:01:11.760 Madison Estes: That would help. 19 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:13.290 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. Alright. 20 00:01:13.290 --> 00:01:14.040 Madison Estes: They're the ones that are. 21 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:14.930 E.R. Bills: Costing it. 22 00:01:15.450 --> 00:01:17.205 E.R. Bills: Yeah, I'm sorry. 23 00:01:17.790 --> 00:01:19.379 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: No worries at all. 24 00:01:19.380 --> 00:01:23.285 Madison Estes: That's okay. The names are so small to see, anyways. But 25 00:01:23.750 --> 00:01:26.500 Madison Estes: me, send him a message real quick to. 26 00:01:31.550 --> 00:01:33.160 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: No worries. We still have 27 00:01:33.180 --> 00:01:37.490 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: 8 min for the 5 attendees in. 28 00:01:37.490 --> 00:01:40.370 E.R. Bills: I was wondering who you were. I thought you were, Mario. I was like. 29 00:01:40.810 --> 00:01:41.610 E.R. Bills: Wow. 30 00:01:45.750 --> 00:01:49.990 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: No, no, but but we still have time. 31 00:01:50.130 --> 00:01:57.300 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: and for the 6 attendees in the room, don't worry. We haven't started yet. 32 00:01:58.150 --> 00:02:10.030 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: We're just getting everyone in the panel ready, and in 7 min I'll I'll well around 7 min. I'll start with some 33 00:02:11.440 --> 00:02:21.600 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: housekeeping. But in the meantime, if you want to start sharing where you are joining us from, so we can. We can. 34 00:02:21.600 --> 00:02:22.470 E.R. Bills: There's Mario. 35 00:02:22.470 --> 00:02:23.480 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Like to. 36 00:02:23.480 --> 00:02:25.060 Mario Martinez: Hey? How? You guys doing. 37 00:02:25.350 --> 00:02:26.283 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Hello! Mario! 38 00:02:27.040 --> 00:02:27.515 Mario Martinez: Hey! 39 00:02:27.990 --> 00:02:29.130 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Nice to meet you. 40 00:02:29.550 --> 00:02:30.960 Mario Martinez: Good to meet you also. 41 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:33.100 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Thank you. 42 00:02:39.040 --> 00:02:41.380 E.R. Bills: Oh, hello! From the Netherlands! That's cool. 43 00:02:44.310 --> 00:02:46.680 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Hello. Sorry. 44 00:02:47.130 --> 00:02:48.890 Mario Martinez: Oh, I was. Gonna say, who's from the Netherlands? 45 00:02:49.890 --> 00:02:51.070 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: So Arthur. 46 00:02:51.070 --> 00:02:51.780 E.R. Bills: Funny. 47 00:02:52.110 --> 00:02:53.890 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: From the audience. 48 00:02:54.350 --> 00:02:55.200 Mario Martinez: Oh! 49 00:02:55.200 --> 00:02:59.550 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: And we have Edwin from California, and I'll start sharing 50 00:02:59.590 --> 00:03:00.515 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: some 51 00:03:02.370 --> 00:03:04.189 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: some useful links. 52 00:03:05.150 --> 00:03:08.200 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: and I will explain in a minute 53 00:03:08.230 --> 00:03:10.920 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: what the slinks mean 54 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:15.050 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: one second. 55 00:03:27.020 --> 00:03:29.070 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, we just hit the 56 00:03:29.350 --> 00:03:37.820 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: the starting button slightly before time. But we haven't really started yet. So we're just playing. Everyone join 57 00:03:38.260 --> 00:03:52.960 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: and just asking people to introduce themselves in the meantime. So you, if you want to take a minute or 2, get some water, don't worry. We won't start before the allocated time, so 58 00:03:53.890 --> 00:03:55.319 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: feel free to. 59 00:03:56.290 --> 00:03:57.140 E.R. Bills: Mario. 60 00:03:57.990 --> 00:03:58.710 Mario Martinez: Yeah. 61 00:03:58.930 --> 00:04:01.140 E.R. Bills: I really liked promises, promises. 62 00:04:02.320 --> 00:04:09.050 Mario Martinez: Oh, thank you. Yeah, I know that I'm glad for the little the addition that you put in there. Also, I thought it was a nice touch to it. 63 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:12.468 E.R. Bills: Well, I don't remember doing that, but. 64 00:04:13.146 --> 00:04:13.523 Madison Estes: Well. 65 00:04:14.990 --> 00:04:17.759 E.R. Bills: But I mean I really liked the story. It was. 66 00:04:18.380 --> 00:04:24.620 E.R. Bills: I thought it was very well written. It was engaging. A lot of times we lead off roadkill with strong stories, and 67 00:04:24.710 --> 00:04:25.970 E.R. Bills: we just happen to have 68 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.410 E.R. Bills: actually, all 3 of you guys have let off 69 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.709 E.R. Bills: have laid off stories in in a roadkill volume. 70 00:04:32.880 --> 00:04:35.760 E.R. Bills: I think the teeth was in one 71 00:04:36.300 --> 00:04:37.780 E.R. Bills: I know 72 00:04:38.490 --> 00:04:44.360 E.R. Bills: a real haunting, or or maybe 30 seconds, plus 30 seconds. Madison. 73 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:44.950 Mario Martinez: Hmm. 74 00:04:45.950 --> 00:04:54.590 E.R. Bills: So you guys have all had really strong stories and stories to lead off an anthology with. Well, in Brett, and I's opinion well, in Madison's opinion, too. 75 00:04:54.780 --> 00:04:56.680 E.R. Bills: and it's so. It's sort of exciting. 76 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:00.790 E.R. Bills: pretty impressive stuff. 77 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:12.510 Mario Martinez: No, thanks. I've always enjoy the opportunity to be a part of the anthology. I mean, it's you guys have been a central place for a lot of my work for a number of years. Now. 78 00:05:13.370 --> 00:05:14.800 E.R. Bills: 2,017. 79 00:05:15.270 --> 00:05:16.650 E.R. Bills: Volume 2. 80 00:05:17.780 --> 00:05:19.100 Mario Martinez: All the way back, then. 81 00:05:19.100 --> 00:05:24.289 E.R. Bills: Yeah. And I think I think, Jackie is in that, too, or Jacqueline. 82 00:05:24.290 --> 00:05:25.676 Jacklyn Baker: Well, yeah. 83 00:05:28.840 --> 00:05:31.499 E.R. Bills: And it's kept it strong, I mean, now. 84 00:05:32.020 --> 00:05:33.420 E.R. Bills: it's kind of like a 85 00:05:33.440 --> 00:05:39.059 E.R. Bills: maybe not a heavyweight, but a weighty, weighty literary venue here in Texas. 86 00:05:40.060 --> 00:05:44.909 E.R. Bills: and before everybody comes on I should tell you I'm going to edit Volume 10 87 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:47.450 E.R. Bills: and Joe Lansdell's story 88 00:05:48.312 --> 00:05:51.130 E.R. Bills: tight little stitches in a dead man's back 89 00:05:51.580 --> 00:05:54.509 E.R. Bills: is going to appear in it, which I've always been a huge fan. 90 00:05:54.510 --> 00:05:55.540 Jacklyn Baker: Fantastic. 91 00:05:55.540 --> 00:05:56.540 Mario Martinez: Oh, yeah. 92 00:05:56.660 --> 00:05:57.800 Mario Martinez: that's awesome. 93 00:05:58.220 --> 00:05:58.740 Madison Estes: That is awesome. 94 00:05:58.740 --> 00:05:59.570 E.R. Bills: So 95 00:06:00.250 --> 00:06:05.070 E.R. Bills: I'll probably grab maybe some more Robert E. Howard or somebody, but we'll see. 96 00:06:07.190 --> 00:06:08.470 Mario Martinez: Oh, I gotta tell you that 97 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:13.500 Mario Martinez: when I saw that one of my stories was in there with a Robert E. Howards, I mean, I almost swooned and. 98 00:06:13.735 --> 00:06:13.970 Jacklyn Baker: That's. 99 00:06:15.620 --> 00:06:16.199 E.R. Bills: Well, don't. 100 00:06:16.200 --> 00:06:17.369 Mario Martinez: I rarely do. 101 00:06:17.370 --> 00:06:18.340 E.R. Bills: That too. 102 00:06:18.910 --> 00:06:19.570 Mario Martinez: Huh! 103 00:06:19.790 --> 00:06:21.767 E.R. Bills: Oh, Henry was in that one too. 104 00:06:22.050 --> 00:06:30.669 Mario Martinez: Yeah, no. I mean, I've been a huge fan of his work since I was a little kid. I went to the 50th Howard Day celebration a few years. 105 00:06:30.670 --> 00:06:31.210 E.R. Bills: We're all good. 106 00:06:32.040 --> 00:06:35.009 Mario Martinez: Yeah. Oh, I made the journey all the way up there. 107 00:06:35.140 --> 00:06:37.980 E.R. Bills: Oh, wow! I've been bothered! I'll dig it. 108 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:48.389 Mario Martinez: Funny enough. The restaurant and promises promises is loosely based off of Jean's feed barn in Brownwood, Texas. So. 109 00:06:49.330 --> 00:06:57.390 E.R. Bills: Well, I always go. I always wind up stopping at that dumb buffet place in in Brownwood. 110 00:06:57.740 --> 00:07:02.499 E.R. Bills: I can't. I can never remember the name, but I'm a sucker for it, but I should try what you just mentioned 111 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:06.450 E.R. Bills: when I when I go through there sometime I need to visit Laredo. I was telling. 112 00:07:06.780 --> 00:07:10.330 E.R. Bills: I guess, Amelia earlier, because I thought he was you 113 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:13.699 E.R. Bills: that I need to visit Laredo. I've wanted to for a while. 114 00:07:14.470 --> 00:07:15.220 E.R. Bills: Does that mean. 115 00:07:15.220 --> 00:07:15.910 Mario Martinez: I mean. 116 00:07:16.640 --> 00:07:27.072 Mario Martinez: the downtown area is real nice, the the surrounding areas with all the ranch land and stuff like that. I mean, there's there's plenty to see around here. But 117 00:07:27.450 --> 00:07:32.789 Mario Martinez: yeah, I know that we have a great art museum in the center of downtown. And yeah, it'd be great. 118 00:07:34.140 --> 00:07:38.399 E.R. Bills: Isn't that where Hovita Idar is from, or where she where they ran. 119 00:07:38.400 --> 00:08:00.520 Mario Martinez: That is, yeah. That is where she's from. I want to say that the original offices where she had that newspaper and stuff like that should still be around somewhere. But I know a lot of students at the local university have done projects where they've kind of like outlined contributions to journalism and women's rights. And you know, stuff like that. 120 00:08:00.760 --> 00:08:04.089 E.R. Bills: Oh, she was a heavyweight. I wrote about her in telltale, Texas. 121 00:08:04.780 --> 00:08:06.620 E.R. Bills: I've been a big fan for a while. 122 00:08:07.210 --> 00:08:08.150 Mario Martinez: Oh, nice! 123 00:08:12.750 --> 00:08:15.300 E.R. Bills: So what are we? Where are we at Emilio? 124 00:08:15.910 --> 00:08:21.950 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Good question, so I will start sharing my screen because we have. 125 00:08:22.219 --> 00:08:23.569 E.R. Bills: What are we talking about? 126 00:08:26.580 --> 00:08:27.230 Jacklyn Baker: Oh! 127 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:27.780 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: We have. 128 00:08:27.780 --> 00:08:28.610 Madison Estes: First.st 129 00:08:28.610 --> 00:08:30.801 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Just 5 min. Sorry. Madison. 130 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:47.709 Madison Estes: I was just gonna say, yeah, the the panel is contemporary horror. So it's going to be a little bit of some talk, some talking about a little bit about censorship, and a little bit about your own writing, so like how you try to keep your ideas fresh, some techniques that you might recommend 131 00:08:47.975 --> 00:09:04.440 Madison Estes: I'm gonna try to keep it limited to about 30 min, so that there's plenty of time for audience questions, too. Because, you know I did my best to pick questions that I'm both interested in, and that, I think would be the most beneficial to the audience. But you know you also want to give time for the audience to. 132 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:05.180 E.R. Bills: You're up there. 133 00:09:05.570 --> 00:09:07.240 Madison Estes: Questions. Oh. 134 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:13.420 Madison Estes: Emilio, you're muted. 135 00:09:16.370 --> 00:09:26.080 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Sorry I was saying. Thank you so much, Madison, and I'm really really excited, and I will start with some housekeeping 136 00:09:26.270 --> 00:09:29.119 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: first, st and then I'll 137 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.259 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: I'll give the 138 00:09:32.500 --> 00:09:37.320 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: the room to the 4 of you. So 1st of all. 139 00:09:37.330 --> 00:09:48.270 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Hello, everyone, I'm Emilio from prowritingaid, and thank you so much for joining us today. If you can see and hear me, please drop your name and location in the chat. 140 00:09:48.370 --> 00:09:54.260 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: and we'll start now with some housekeeping items. 141 00:09:54.480 --> 00:10:03.249 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: So 1st of all, you can access all the replays for the horror writers fest by going to our hub 142 00:10:03.841 --> 00:10:21.110 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: you will find the replace once, or we will add the replace to the Hub page. Once they have been processed by Zoom and Youtube. So this can take a few, a few hours, they will be added as soon as as possible. 143 00:10:22.140 --> 00:10:42.540 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: so don't worry. If you don't see a specific replay that you that you want to see, we will add it as soon as we can, and we will also be posting all of our replays to our community page, which should be in the in the chat, and I'll share it again in a second. 144 00:10:42.700 --> 00:10:49.110 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: By November the first, st and you will also see previous replays from previous 145 00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:59.270 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: writers, weeks and the community page is is free for everyone to join. So go and join if you haven't yet. 146 00:11:00.762 --> 00:11:04.560 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. So there's a special offer for 147 00:11:04.920 --> 00:11:15.320 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: all the all horror writers, fest participants. You will receive early access to our upcoming Black Friday sale. 148 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:21.490 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: and this will get you 50% of premium and premium pro plans for both yearly and lifetime. 149 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:37.459 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: You will receive an email just by signing up to the horror writers fest you will receive an email with more information closer to the sale. But if you haven't received anything, please send us an email 150 00:11:37.490 --> 00:11:45.650 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: to Hello, approwritingaid.com. If you haven't received anything by November the 16, th and we'll be happy to help. 151 00:11:46.650 --> 00:12:11.299 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: If you want to keep the horror conversation going, we'd love to have you in our online writing. Community joining is really easy. Just visit the link which we'll share as well in the chat in a in a second, and log in with your priority account. Info. You can also hop over to the live event, chat to talk to other attendees 152 00:12:12.290 --> 00:12:36.530 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: we'll also love. If you could share your feedback on horror. Writers fest in the typeform survey that we will link as well in the chat, and that it's linked in the hub as well. We love hosting events like these, and your feedback is really really important for us to plan these events in the future. Tell us everything, what you loved. 153 00:12:36.570 --> 00:12:43.329 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: what you think we could improve on, and what you would like to see in a future event as well. 154 00:12:44.160 --> 00:12:57.489 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: We also have a fun. New writing challenge coming up called 5 K. In 5 days, where participants in our community will write 5,000 words or more. Between November 4th and the 8th 155 00:12:57.820 --> 00:13:12.630 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: we'll have daily teachings, writing prompts, discussion, forums, and even live writings that you can take part in. It's free to sign up, and we'd love to see you there. We'll also share the the sign up link in the chat and on the hub. 156 00:13:13.540 --> 00:13:31.710 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: So a few reminders for this session. If you have any questions for our speakers, please use the Q. And a box. You will find that at the center of your zoom screen. If you like to chat to other viewers, please use the chat and and 157 00:13:31.710 --> 00:13:43.889 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: select everyone in the drop down, menu. So you. So your messages are visible to all viewers, otherwise they will be only visible to us, the host and panelists 158 00:13:44.210 --> 00:13:53.889 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: and yeah, special links. So we will share some links regarding our 159 00:13:54.000 --> 00:14:02.830 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: offers, our community, and also how to contact all, or how to get in touch with all of our panelists 160 00:14:02.850 --> 00:14:06.060 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: in the in the 161 00:14:06.430 --> 00:14:14.880 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: chat as well. And yeah, with that being said, I will give pass to Madison 162 00:14:15.100 --> 00:14:17.860 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: to introduce all our 163 00:14:17.910 --> 00:14:33.180 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: panelist. But 1st let me introduce Madison. So Madison Estes writes horror and dark fantasy. Her short story pestilence made the Bram stoker recommended reading list, and her mother's official note list. 164 00:14:33.350 --> 00:14:46.840 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Her work often revolves around villainous protagonists or herring struggling with bizarre moral dilemmas. She's the editor of Roadkill, Texas horror by Texas writers. Volume 6. 165 00:14:46.860 --> 00:14:52.659 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: She has taught or writing courses at the writing barn and the Durham Writing group. 166 00:14:52.780 --> 00:14:55.979 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Madison also runs a hybrid authortube 167 00:14:56.110 --> 00:15:02.709 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: horror Tube Channel, where she posts writing advice, videos, writing blogs and horror reviews. 168 00:15:03.340 --> 00:15:14.340 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: And yeah, thank you, Madison, for for being here. It's great to have you again. And yeah, thank you as well for hosting this panel. 169 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:29.109 Madison Estes: Thank you. Thank you guys for setting this up. I really appreciate it. And I'm really looking forward to getting this started and asking all these questions about contemporary horror writing. 170 00:15:29.190 --> 00:15:43.579 Madison Estes: and thank you for that introduction, Emilio. Today we have with us er bills, the co-creator of the roadkill series that all of the Panelists have been published in multiple times, I believe. 171 00:15:43.620 --> 00:16:09.880 Madison Estes: and I myself am the editor of Roadkill, Volume 6, where I had the privilege to publish stories by Jackie and Mario, which you know Jackie's story. The Teeth, is one of the most chilling to this day body horror stories that I've ever read, you know Mario's story, the chickens that are not her chickens, which is also the name of his new short story collection. I believe that just came out congratulations 172 00:16:09.940 --> 00:16:34.840 Madison Estes: is also one of my favorites from that collection, and of course, again, er bills. The man that started this whole very successful and well-known and highly regarded series has written so many of my favorite stories, although I have to recommend recumbent female nude, which is featured in pendulum grin, and I believe it's also been republished in your new short story collection as well. Right. 173 00:16:35.190 --> 00:16:36.870 E.R. Bills: At the Halloween and me. 174 00:16:37.380 --> 00:16:43.589 Madison Estes: Yes, one of the most horrific but powerful and moving stories I've ever read so. 175 00:16:43.590 --> 00:16:43.970 E.R. Bills: Thank you. 176 00:16:43.970 --> 00:17:07.900 Madison Estes: You guys are in for a treat because you have 3 incredibly talented and well-regarded authors in this panel, and I'm going to give you all an opportunity to introduce yourselves a little bit more, and if you want to go ahead and plug whatever new publications you have coming out, or that have just been released that you're excited about, and then I'll get into some of my questions. 177 00:17:09.333 --> 00:17:11.390 Madison Estes: Er bills! Would you like to start. 178 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.970 E.R. Bills: I guess so. Can you hear me? All right. 179 00:17:15.589 --> 00:17:16.229 Madison Estes: Yes. 180 00:17:16.490 --> 00:17:18.199 E.R. Bills: Okay? Good. Well. 181 00:17:18.710 --> 00:17:26.900 E.R. Bills: obviously. Rk, 9 just was released. And we're all excited about that. It's got a lot of great stories in it. There'll be a review 182 00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:29.979 E.R. Bills: in Fort Worth Weekly today. 183 00:17:30.420 --> 00:17:34.730 E.R. Bills: and I've got, you know, obviously, a lot of stuff out there, nonfiction and fiction. 184 00:17:34.840 --> 00:17:39.589 E.R. Bills: So I'll just talk about. You know the future. Obviously, we're going to do an Rk, 10. 185 00:17:39.790 --> 00:17:43.589 E.R. Bills: And in this case I'm going to edit that one. And then 186 00:17:44.170 --> 00:17:49.889 E.R. Bills: James Longmore and I, you guys know him the hellbound, the face of hellbound 187 00:17:50.690 --> 00:17:52.329 E.R. Bills: we're going to do. 188 00:17:52.970 --> 00:18:02.300 E.R. Bills: I don't know what we're going to call it. Maybe I'll talk to you about that, Madison. Maybe a roadkill best of best of roadkill or road killers. Best of road killers. 189 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:21.730 E.R. Bills: We're going to do like a collection of the best stories to appear in roadkill over the 1st 10 volumes, and so I figured that we would consult the editors as of which you are one, and then, of course, Patrick C. Harrison and Brett and William Jensen. I thought it would be fun, and James thinks it's a great idea, so 190 00:18:21.740 --> 00:18:24.860 E.R. Bills: it's probably a done deal next year that we'll have a volume 10, 191 00:18:24.910 --> 00:18:28.759 E.R. Bills: a standalone volume 10. And then sometime after that, we'll have a 192 00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:30.470 E.R. Bills: you know. 193 00:18:30.860 --> 00:18:33.740 E.R. Bills: a best of, with title to be named. 194 00:18:34.010 --> 00:18:35.914 E.R. Bills: and it's very exciting. 195 00:18:37.070 --> 00:18:40.469 E.R. Bills: and I'm sure I'm gonna see all 3 of you guys 196 00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:43.247 E.R. Bills: in one or both. 197 00:18:46.333 --> 00:18:56.409 Madison Estes: Thank you. And oh, my gosh, I'm really excited, you know, it's funny. I was just thinking a few days ago that there's been so many issues and so many stories. Now, there really ought to be a best of. So this is really exciting 198 00:18:56.840 --> 00:18:57.460 Madison Estes: here. 199 00:18:57.660 --> 00:18:58.510 Madison Estes: Yeah. 200 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.120 Madison Estes: that's exciting. 201 00:19:00.450 --> 00:19:02.549 Madison Estes: Jackie. Would you like to go next. 202 00:19:03.050 --> 00:19:11.980 Jacklyn Baker: Sure I'm Jackie. My pen name is Jacqueline Baker. I've been in roadkill volumes 2, 3, 6, and 7. 203 00:19:12.430 --> 00:19:17.779 Jacklyn Baker: I think I still hold the record for the most volumes, but I could. I don't know. 204 00:19:18.230 --> 00:19:19.700 Jacklyn Baker: You have to check me on that. 205 00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:22.800 E.R. Bills: I don't know how many is that? Is that 4 volumes. 206 00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:24.380 Jacklyn Baker: 4. So. 207 00:19:24.530 --> 00:19:26.110 E.R. Bills: Okay. Madison's done. 208 00:19:26.930 --> 00:19:27.930 E.R. Bills: 5. 209 00:19:27.930 --> 00:19:28.440 Jacklyn Baker: Oh, man! 210 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:32.117 E.R. Bills: Mario might be right at 4. So you guys are all up there. 211 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:33.875 Jacklyn Baker: Yeah, we're veterans of it. 212 00:19:34.170 --> 00:19:35.790 E.R. Bills: Yeah, you guys are. 213 00:19:36.608 --> 00:19:50.739 Jacklyn Baker: I would like to maybe put something in for 10. We'll see I'm excited for it. I know it was going to be the 10th anniversary coming up so. But other than that, I do have a story coming out in a collection next year that will be called 214 00:19:50.860 --> 00:19:54.720 Jacklyn Baker: the day, the earth almost abruptly ended. 215 00:19:54.730 --> 00:19:58.780 Jacklyn Baker: So it's a little bit of a spoof. It's paying homage to 216 00:19:58.820 --> 00:20:09.780 Jacklyn Baker: retro like 19 fifties drive-in movie type, sci-fi horror stories. So that was a little a little different for me. That was a fun, a fun writing project. 217 00:20:10.610 --> 00:20:19.093 Jacklyn Baker: And yeah, you can find me on Instagram. I'm really not on social media much, but I am there. 218 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:21.800 Jacklyn Baker: Yeah, happy to be here. 219 00:20:24.370 --> 00:20:30.559 Madison Estes: Alright. Thank you. And Mario. Would you like to introduce yourself? Talk about any current projects. 220 00:20:31.230 --> 00:20:59.179 Mario Martinez: Oh, sure! My name is Mario E. Martinez, you know, as we've been saying, I was trying to figure out how many volumes of roadkill. I've been in myself, apparently 4 of them. And so you know, this anthology has been a real nice feature of my work. Just recently, as Madison mentioned, I came out with a short story collection called The Chickens that are not a chicken. So basically, you know, it's the titular story is one that came out in roadkill. 221 00:20:59.180 --> 00:21:27.190 Mario Martinez: The cool thing about that one is not just. Is it a collection of my stories? But I got a really great illustrator to put, you know, an illustration per story, a guy named Jorge Javier Lopez that I mean just deranged sketches that just fit my style so perfectly other than that I mean the last thing that came out. Publication. Wise was, you know, the latest volume of roadkill, and my story promises promises 222 00:21:28.650 --> 00:21:30.609 Mario Martinez: beyond those things. 223 00:21:30.943 --> 00:21:49.446 Mario Martinez: I'm regularly featured on chilling tales for dark nights. A podcast on Youtube that does like audio versions of stories. So think like those old radio plays and stuff like that of some of the stories that you know I've written. So it was a lot of fun, a lot of the stories you find in that collection. You'll see there as well. 224 00:21:49.860 --> 00:21:55.290 Mario Martinez: But yeah, otherwise I mean always writing, always working on something. So let's see what I come out with next year. 225 00:21:57.690 --> 00:22:00.619 Madison Estes: All right. Yeah. And we're all looking forward to that. 226 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:25.609 Madison Estes: Okay? So I'm going to go ahead and get started with some questions. I'm going to get started with just talking about horror writing in general before we get into a little bit more specific on what techniques you all use. Now, my 1st question is, what fears do you think? Resonate the most with today's audiences? And you know, how can writers effectively tap into them. 227 00:22:29.350 --> 00:22:29.929 Jacklyn Baker: I think. 228 00:22:29.930 --> 00:22:32.388 Madison Estes: Yeah. Sorry. Go. Ahead. No. 229 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:36.221 Jacklyn Baker: Do we need to like raise our hand or anything? Is it like class. 230 00:22:39.086 --> 00:22:44.500 Madison Estes: I was thinking it was more conversational. But if we end up talking over each other, we can do hand raising. Yeah. 231 00:22:45.229 --> 00:22:49.520 Jacklyn Baker: Was just gonna start off saying, You know, I think 232 00:22:50.190 --> 00:22:52.414 Jacklyn Baker: in the age of information, 233 00:22:52.980 --> 00:23:06.830 Jacklyn Baker: you know, to tap into the most primal human fear, which is fear of the unknown is harder than ever. You know. People aren't afraid of thunderstorms anymore. Right? We we know a lot. I think 234 00:23:07.630 --> 00:23:12.490 Jacklyn Baker: you know, a lot of horror centers around things that are out of our control. 235 00:23:12.833 --> 00:23:18.120 Jacklyn Baker: You know, it's maybe things that are supernatural or things that are on such a wide scale that 236 00:23:18.430 --> 00:23:22.839 Jacklyn Baker: you don't have any hope as a single person trying to survive it. 237 00:23:24.290 --> 00:23:25.949 Jacklyn Baker: yeah, it's it's it's 238 00:23:26.910 --> 00:23:31.910 Jacklyn Baker: I don't know. I think you know things are out of our control is kind of the best way to 239 00:23:32.120 --> 00:23:35.480 Jacklyn Baker: grip readers and scare the pants off of them. 240 00:23:38.570 --> 00:23:39.439 Madison Estes: I mean, yeah, that's. 241 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:40.799 E.R. Bills: I think it's existential. 242 00:23:42.320 --> 00:23:42.720 Madison Estes: From. 243 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:44.240 E.R. Bills: Me, I mean, I don't know. 244 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:46.549 E.R. Bills: In this volume of 245 00:23:46.580 --> 00:23:50.449 E.R. Bills: In Volume 9 of Roadkill. There's a story by Amy Trask, called 246 00:23:50.910 --> 00:23:52.300 E.R. Bills: Internal Rhyme. 247 00:23:53.220 --> 00:23:54.280 E.R. Bills: and 248 00:23:56.250 --> 00:23:57.559 E.R. Bills: I think I think 249 00:23:57.570 --> 00:24:05.189 E.R. Bills: well, I think on an everyday basis. Americans, Texans, people in general around the world experience existential terror. You know the future. 250 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.850 E.R. Bills: What can we do? Can anything be done? In the meantime you have a circle of 251 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:17.050 E.R. Bills: acquaintances or friends or loved ones around you, and and what they're up to, and what they're aware and not aware of. 252 00:24:17.090 --> 00:24:19.159 E.R. Bills: and how you fit in their lives. 253 00:24:19.270 --> 00:24:20.130 E.R. Bills: and what 254 00:24:20.390 --> 00:24:26.970 E.R. Bills: what boundaries there are, and how scary it is to try to breach something really profound 255 00:24:28.020 --> 00:24:29.669 E.R. Bills: with even people you love. 256 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:32.968 E.R. Bills: It's a strange time we're living in 257 00:24:34.280 --> 00:24:39.570 E.R. Bills: And and the lyrics to songs and and the the text of horror stories. 258 00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:43.010 E.R. Bills: I think it's become a little more complex because 259 00:24:43.440 --> 00:24:45.160 E.R. Bills: because it's hard to 260 00:24:45.300 --> 00:24:47.200 E.R. Bills: inhabit that space 261 00:24:47.700 --> 00:24:48.970 E.R. Bills: honestly 262 00:24:49.090 --> 00:24:51.509 E.R. Bills: and and profoundly. 263 00:24:52.250 --> 00:24:55.219 E.R. Bills: And if you've got. If you've got a readership that'll follow you 264 00:24:55.650 --> 00:24:57.530 E.R. Bills: down one of those trails. 265 00:24:58.100 --> 00:25:00.090 E.R. Bills: then I think you've really got something. 266 00:25:00.130 --> 00:25:08.910 E.R. Bills: I don't go in as much for the as as Jackie was talking about the thunder, the thunderstorms, I mean the old tropes. 267 00:25:09.393 --> 00:25:13.990 E.R. Bills: They're still. They're still fun, but I don't think they resonate like 268 00:25:14.180 --> 00:25:16.589 E.R. Bills: some of the new new stuff, like 269 00:25:16.730 --> 00:25:19.299 E.R. Bills: teeth, or like Madison 270 00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:22.060 E.R. Bills: pestilence. Oh, my gosh! 271 00:25:23.810 --> 00:25:32.810 E.R. Bills: There's stuff that you're like! You read it, and you cringe, and it's not because, you know, the mummy's hand is stuck out from around the corner. It's because 272 00:25:33.230 --> 00:25:41.250 E.R. Bills: it's happening all around you. You know, people that you know, or people that inhabit the communities you live in. 273 00:25:41.460 --> 00:25:43.449 E.R. Bills: what they're going through. 274 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:45.500 E.R. Bills: So 275 00:25:45.830 --> 00:25:53.120 E.R. Bills: it's it's it's often a subject that's hard to breach. And I think core is a way to good to, really, to really tackle it. 276 00:25:56.020 --> 00:25:56.690 E.R. Bills: Yeah. 277 00:25:57.178 --> 00:25:59.130 Mario Martinez: Know we oh, sorry! 278 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:00.480 Mario Martinez: Sorry about that. 279 00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:01.570 Madison Estes: Oh, it's just me! 280 00:26:01.860 --> 00:26:02.710 Madison Estes: Come on. 281 00:26:03.970 --> 00:26:06.138 Mario Martinez: Oh, no, I was just gonna say that. 282 00:26:06.750 --> 00:26:24.629 Mario Martinez: I kind of have an opposite approach when it comes to what I write about and how I do it. I take Cormac Mccarthy's old advice that the story has to deal with life and death, otherwise it doesn't hit the same way. But I've always looked at. 283 00:26:24.950 --> 00:26:33.189 Mario Martinez: Horror is almost something like timeless. One way I could describe the way that I approach it is. 284 00:26:33.330 --> 00:26:36.699 Mario Martinez: It's very naturalistic, even though 285 00:26:36.940 --> 00:26:42.529 Mario Martinez: things can be taken in a modern context. I think of like promises, promises where 286 00:26:42.670 --> 00:26:46.470 Mario Martinez: really, at the end of the day, it's the animal nature of wanting to live 287 00:26:46.530 --> 00:26:57.389 Mario Martinez: that, despite the philosophical points of view, someone can have. Well, no, we're animals, and we want to survive. I think isolation is another thing that 288 00:26:57.490 --> 00:27:07.189 Mario Martinez: even though we feel that we don't have isolation in the in the current climate, because we're connected to everybody. Even now we're not in the same space yet we're here together. 289 00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:21.330 Mario Martinez: There is still an isolating element that I think really does resonate with people, and then also one that I think maybe you know, goes all the way back to Orwell in 1984, back to the old, you know, days when we were being hunted in the jungles. 290 00:27:22.030 --> 00:27:51.079 Mario Martinez: to be constantly watched to feel as though something is around that is unexplainable, that we don't know what it is, what its motivations toward us are. I've always thought that's kind of a great place to start, because even those themes you can put them in a story of the 17 fifties or in, you know, 30, 55, and you still kind of have. Those elements are still always going to resonate. At least, that's the way I've always kind of seen it. 291 00:27:51.530 --> 00:27:54.580 E.R. Bills: And you did that. You took Shakespeare and flipped it on its head. 292 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:59.350 E.R. Bills: Romeo and Juliet, and it was fascinating to me, and. 293 00:27:59.350 --> 00:28:00.700 Mario Martinez: No, thank you. 294 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:02.730 E.R. Bills: It's sort of timeless. And then you 295 00:28:02.820 --> 00:28:06.460 E.R. Bills: you brought back some real serious gravitas in the end. 296 00:28:07.120 --> 00:28:07.609 E.R. Bills: you know. 297 00:28:09.670 --> 00:28:10.280 E.R. Bills: It was impressed. 298 00:28:10.280 --> 00:28:17.189 Mario Martinez: Again. Oh, thank you very much again, just with that story in particular. I really tried to highlight 299 00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:30.859 Mario Martinez: the the fun little idiosyncrasies of life and the things that bring us joy, even if like. Let's say, you know, I told you earlier that the restaurant is based off of a restaurant in Cross Plains, Texas. 300 00:28:31.580 --> 00:28:35.769 Mario Martinez: the scene with the fly not moving with people. 301 00:28:35.910 --> 00:28:41.258 Mario Martinez: That was, I mean, that was a real life thing that happened, you know, to happen to me. But 302 00:28:41.650 --> 00:28:42.760 Mario Martinez: again. 303 00:28:42.870 --> 00:28:48.850 Mario Martinez: even that little joy of a story, I think, is part of like the the color of life, and 304 00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:54.320 Mario Martinez: really deserve to be kind of in there. I mean again, for those that haven't read the story. I invite you to. 305 00:28:57.950 --> 00:29:11.589 Madison Estes: Yeah, absolutely great answer. And I agree sometimes it's the unknown. That is the most frightening thing you can possibly think of. Yeah, great answers, guys, thank you. 306 00:29:11.700 --> 00:29:31.870 Madison Estes: So, moving on to the next question, a little bit similar in a world with all of this really great horror content that's constantly being churned out both movies and books. What unique approaches do you think that writers can take to stand out and scare their audience? And if you want to get more specific. What approaches do you take? 307 00:29:31.950 --> 00:29:33.599 Madison Estes: Scare your audience? It's. 308 00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:36.460 E.R. Bills: Can I jump in on that one. 309 00:29:37.452 --> 00:29:38.840 Madison Estes: Yeah, absolutely, please. 310 00:29:38.840 --> 00:29:43.740 E.R. Bills: Actually, I think there is a lot of horror being cranked out, and I think very little of it is very original. 311 00:29:44.300 --> 00:29:45.650 E.R. Bills: I mean, it's 312 00:29:45.940 --> 00:29:53.399 E.R. Bills: it's I find it a beat down. I hate to be a buzz kill. Don't jump on me, Mario, but 313 00:29:53.540 --> 00:29:58.040 E.R. Bills: so so if you're editing anthologies, you well know, Madison. 314 00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:09.429 E.R. Bills: that's what really jumps out at you is that if somebody has a voice, a lot of people are writing horror, I think, to write horror, but I'm not sure they have a voice, at least not a voice that's original. 315 00:30:09.550 --> 00:30:12.240 E.R. Bills: You know. We we tend to fall back 316 00:30:12.700 --> 00:30:16.769 E.R. Bills: to the sort of the orals of the established tropes. And 317 00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:19.849 E.R. Bills: and so, when a pestilence pops up, or 318 00:30:20.330 --> 00:30:23.121 E.R. Bills: the teeth story by Jackie 319 00:30:23.740 --> 00:30:24.860 E.R. Bills: or even 320 00:30:25.020 --> 00:30:39.240 E.R. Bills: those chickens, are not my chickens or her chickens, whatever that that story knocked me for a loop, but really kind of came from from nowhere, and I didn't know a lot of times you'll you'll you'll start reading this story, and you know where it's going. And you know even what the monster is going to be. 321 00:30:39.350 --> 00:30:44.100 E.R. Bills: and it's so much like so much that's been written before. 322 00:30:44.380 --> 00:30:48.510 E.R. Bills: It's kind of like, okay, it's a ride. But every once in a while you get a story that 323 00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:52.309 E.R. Bills: takes you into a cavern that you haven't explored within yourself. 324 00:30:52.490 --> 00:30:54.710 E.R. Bills: or maybe you didn't even know existed. 325 00:30:54.930 --> 00:31:02.489 E.R. Bills: It's sort of outside your experience. Sometimes it's neat to be scared by the familiar like plus 30 seconds a microwave. 326 00:31:02.820 --> 00:31:07.989 E.R. Bills: Why'd you do that to me? But a lot of times it's 327 00:31:09.910 --> 00:31:11.150 E.R. Bills: it's a 328 00:31:11.490 --> 00:31:14.199 E.R. Bills: it's the fresh approach, and 329 00:31:15.070 --> 00:31:31.670 E.R. Bills: and I think that that becomes harder and harder to do. And and if you aren't reading, that's the other thing I would say for any. If I had advice to a rider, read read everything, read a lot a lot of writers. It doesn't seem like they're very well read, and the depth of their 330 00:31:31.730 --> 00:31:39.129 E.R. Bills: perception of the of sort of the art form even is not that established? And and they're not even sure what's been done. 331 00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:43.479 E.R. Bills: But there are some people you can tell. Obviously they have a grip on sort of 332 00:31:43.560 --> 00:31:52.380 E.R. Bills: the history and and the plot lines and the worlds that have been explored, and they either riff off that in original way, or they go after something 333 00:31:53.080 --> 00:31:53.920 E.R. Bills: larger. 334 00:31:55.180 --> 00:32:01.590 E.R. Bills: and so and that would be my advice. You can take that old clay, and maybe breathe new life into it. 335 00:32:01.870 --> 00:32:06.120 E.R. Bills: But you've really got to have a catch, and you've really got to have a fresh vision. 336 00:32:08.550 --> 00:32:15.150 E.R. Bills: and that would be my my recommendation. I mean, you guys have all done it. I mean, what was your experience like? I mean, I can't imagine 337 00:32:16.040 --> 00:32:24.210 E.R. Bills: riding pestilence, you know, I had this art teacher in in college, and and he was pretty established, talented Guy and I was an art major, and 338 00:32:24.450 --> 00:32:30.819 E.R. Bills: and one day he stood next to this painting, he said, I think this is a masterpiece, and we're all like, what is he talking about? Some Bozo's painting? 339 00:32:31.120 --> 00:32:33.710 E.R. Bills: And he said, there's nothing I could do to improve it. 340 00:32:33.730 --> 00:32:37.490 E.R. Bills: Well, you guys have all to a person written a story that I thought 341 00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:45.900 E.R. Bills: Whoa! 1st of all, I couldn't write that. I never would have thought of that, and there's really nothing or not much I could have done to improve it. 342 00:32:46.020 --> 00:32:46.910 E.R. Bills: And so 343 00:32:48.350 --> 00:32:53.879 E.R. Bills: riding is not necessarily, you know, a process where you run in a pack. 344 00:32:54.010 --> 00:32:56.739 E.R. Bills: You need to really kind of get out there. 345 00:32:56.930 --> 00:33:00.879 E.R. Bills: I think, to grab an audience's attention and the intimacy 346 00:33:01.810 --> 00:33:02.760 E.R. Bills: and 347 00:33:03.890 --> 00:33:07.070 E.R. Bills: and shock of actually the teeth and 348 00:33:07.360 --> 00:33:08.510 E.R. Bills: pestilent 349 00:33:09.970 --> 00:33:16.335 E.R. Bills: really grabbed me. And the chickens aren't her my chickens or her chickens, I'm sorry, Mario, 350 00:33:16.710 --> 00:33:18.929 Mario Martinez: Oh, no! Worries! Everyone messes up that time. 351 00:33:19.130 --> 00:33:22.929 E.R. Bills: Was. I was like, I'm glad it's the title of your collection, because I was like 352 00:33:23.210 --> 00:33:27.689 E.R. Bills: Whoa! There's something I don't even understand. I mean there was on some level. 353 00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:34.930 E.R. Bills: I was like, I'm not even sure what exactly this is about, but it's chilling. It's horrifying, because the implications of it 354 00:33:35.560 --> 00:33:48.699 E.R. Bills: are effective on so many different levels. There's so many ways you could go with it and ways you could look at it. And of course, readers interpret, and they they have their own version in the end. But that one. 355 00:33:49.270 --> 00:33:53.940 E.R. Bills: There's lots of rabbit holes to get lost down, in my opinion, and not. 356 00:33:54.140 --> 00:33:56.850 E.R. Bills: I thought it was very effective, and 357 00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:06.119 E.R. Bills: and the teeth like I said, the pestilence. There's been a ton of them over the over the while. Even Madison's 1st story a real haunting. 358 00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:10.159 E.R. Bills: It wasn't an unfamiliar trope necessarily, but 359 00:34:11.070 --> 00:34:18.059 E.R. Bills: there was a sort of an authenticity about it, and a simplicity. You know. It didn't try to get extravagant. 360 00:34:18.290 --> 00:34:29.420 E.R. Bills: but it was like they're driving down a road, and they can't find a place, and they get lost. And the take on it was so original. So so you can. There's obviously more than one way to skin a cat, but you have to do it with like a 361 00:34:29.560 --> 00:34:32.429 E.R. Bills: an authentic voice. That would be my advice. 362 00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:38.569 Mario Martinez: To kind of piggyback off of what er was saying. 363 00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:42.750 Mario Martinez: I understand what you mean when you, when you brought up that 364 00:34:42.830 --> 00:35:06.250 Mario Martinez: a lot of times when you read horror when you watch horror, you kind of you miss something being clever, something being unique or different. You know a lot of times, as you say. Yeah, half the time you can kind of see where things are going, and all of that one approach that I've always made for better or for worse is. 365 00:35:07.010 --> 00:35:25.089 Mario Martinez: I want to try to write a story that if I read it as just, you know someone picking it up I would be impressed by it that I would look at it and think that there was something there that I don't see constantly. And actually I saw someone in chat. Mention the substance. 366 00:35:25.100 --> 00:35:31.300 Mario Martinez: I mean, if you haven't seen that film. That's a wonderful example of it at in the theater watching it, I said. 367 00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:45.610 Mario Martinez: this is what I'm talking about. This is the kind of thing that is missing. It's bizarre. It's strange it's bold. It's doing what it pleases. You know how many people walked out of the theater I was in, I could not tell you, but 368 00:35:45.730 --> 00:35:49.990 Mario Martinez: that's to me. That's the the main thing of making art doing something 369 00:35:50.570 --> 00:35:52.410 Mario Martinez: boldly. That 370 00:35:52.570 --> 00:36:21.120 Mario Martinez: part of it does come from a dissatisfaction of what's around. I often joke that I would love to just be a reader and consume things. I mean, that would be so great. But every time I read something that maybe didn't go the way I wanted it to, I'm filled with that nagging feeling that, like I could have done something with this, I could have altered it. I could have given it another aspect, and that more often than not keeps me not only going back to the page, but 371 00:36:21.350 --> 00:36:23.979 Mario Martinez: really kind of demanding myself. 372 00:36:24.260 --> 00:36:39.780 Mario Martinez: you know, don't fall into something that is normal. One of the things that you know I love to write about are werewolves, and you all know every werewolf story is the same. It's Oh, God, someone gets attacked. What's happening now they got to be killed by their family or something. 373 00:36:40.150 --> 00:37:06.350 Mario Martinez: And so that was like that was almost my rule with werewolf stories like that will not be how it goes, it cannot follow that pattern if it does, don't even bother with it. And so I think it was the 1st cup that we were talking about came out with in one of your anthologies that I was so proud that that one was published because it was a werewolf story, and I love them so much, but it wasn't like one that you see, and that to me. 374 00:37:06.350 --> 00:37:10.397 E.R. Bills: You didn't see it coming. You didn't see it coming. Have you read the mongrels by 375 00:37:10.830 --> 00:37:15.559 E.R. Bills: Have you read mongrels by also roadkill contributor, Stephen Graham Jones? 376 00:37:16.070 --> 00:37:18.760 Mario Martinez: Funny enough. I have a copy of that book with 377 00:37:19.850 --> 00:37:20.154 Mario Martinez: no. 378 00:37:21.420 --> 00:37:22.059 E.R. Bills: That one 379 00:37:22.380 --> 00:37:23.390 E.R. Bills: very impressive 380 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:24.830 E.R. Bills: also. 381 00:37:25.550 --> 00:37:26.120 Jacklyn Baker: No. 382 00:37:27.540 --> 00:37:31.320 Jacklyn Baker: I'll I'll just add to what y'all were saying. You know it is. 383 00:37:31.470 --> 00:37:38.710 Jacklyn Baker: It is a matter of finding a fresh take on something that has been around for I mean since the dawn of horror. Like werewolves. 384 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.019 Jacklyn Baker: you know, finding a unique take on it. 385 00:37:42.470 --> 00:37:53.299 Jacklyn Baker: you know. Maybe it's the classic werewolf story. But maybe you put it in a setting like, you know the moon or something. And how can you play with that? How can you make that different. What scenarios 386 00:37:53.830 --> 00:37:56.236 Jacklyn Baker: can you use to change it up? 387 00:37:57.240 --> 00:38:05.809 Jacklyn Baker: And then my! My other piece of advice is maybe a strange one. But think about it a lot, I think, about teeth 388 00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:07.149 Jacklyn Baker: all the time. 389 00:38:09.110 --> 00:38:09.860 Madison Estes: I believe it. 390 00:38:09.860 --> 00:38:23.299 Jacklyn Baker: I got a very scary story out of my mind, just wondering about, you know, thief one day. So you know, whatever it is you want to write about, spend the time with it, really sit there and think about 391 00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:32.539 Jacklyn Baker: what could happen and go down that rabbit hole? It might, it might be a very bizarre rabbit hole, but there are people that want to read that. So go for it. 392 00:38:32.780 --> 00:38:37.269 E.R. Bills: You also did the same thing Madison did effectively in Southern hospitality. 393 00:38:38.290 --> 00:38:39.420 E.R. Bills: Do you remember that story? 394 00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:40.880 Jacklyn Baker: Unexpected. Yeah. 395 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:42.169 E.R. Bills: Yeah, I was like, Whoa. 396 00:38:42.570 --> 00:38:46.560 E.R. Bills: I mean, it's like they're driving. It's a it's a road. It's a road trip story. And I was like. 397 00:38:46.560 --> 00:38:47.140 Jacklyn Baker: Yeah. 398 00:38:47.140 --> 00:38:50.060 E.R. Bills: Wow, you know. So yeah. 399 00:38:50.060 --> 00:38:53.705 Jacklyn Baker: Yeah, hillbilly cannibals for that one. But it's not. 400 00:38:54.290 --> 00:38:55.210 E.R. Bills: Sure. 401 00:38:56.843 --> 00:38:57.410 Madison Estes: That's correct. 402 00:38:59.020 --> 00:39:05.209 E.R. Bills: Sorry. I remember Brett famously when we did. Roadkill one Brett Brett Mccormick, the Indie Horror filmmaker 403 00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:07.589 E.R. Bills: that I met at the North Texas book festival. 404 00:39:07.780 --> 00:39:15.600 E.R. Bills: When we started to edit that we put it together pretty fast, and I was friends with Joe R. Lansdale. So he gave us a story right off the bat, so we knew we had had something. 405 00:39:15.750 --> 00:39:17.598 E.R. Bills: if not nothing else. 406 00:39:18.440 --> 00:39:39.079 E.R. Bills: but I remember, he said, he said, I don't want any zombie stories, and I don't want any vampire stories or any wolfman stories because they it's already been done. They do it over and over and over, but you know what in the end a couple, I think one vampire story and a werewolf story. Both appeared in roadkill one because they were original. They were so original. 407 00:39:39.590 --> 00:39:40.610 E.R. Bills: It's funny. 408 00:39:41.370 --> 00:39:58.430 Madison Estes: Yeah. And I think a werewolf story appeared in the Anthology. I edited, too. So he definitely is something that you can do over and over again if you play with it right. And I loved your idea, Jackie. Werewolves on the moon. That's because, do they ever get to transform back? I mean. 409 00:39:58.430 --> 00:39:59.150 Jacklyn Baker: You, they. 410 00:40:01.940 --> 00:40:03.049 Madison Estes: I don't know. 411 00:40:03.050 --> 00:40:04.687 Jacklyn Baker: Got that down. Think about it! 412 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.600 Madison Estes: Maybe that could be fun. Okay. 413 00:40:08.600 --> 00:40:09.640 Jacklyn Baker: Be really fun. 414 00:40:09.910 --> 00:40:22.779 Madison Estes: And Mario the don't fall into something normal. I think I want to write that down and get it framed in my office. I think that's a great motto for any horror writer. That is excellent advice. 415 00:40:24.470 --> 00:40:27.990 Madison Estes: thank you. Guys. Those were great answers all around. Thank you. 416 00:40:28.549 --> 00:40:48.019 Madison Estes: Okay, so last question or last question, I have a couple more. This question is because censorship is huge. Right now. You know, there's a lot of talk about book Banning. I went to go vote the other day, and I saw signs about. Don't write sexual books. Our children are reading them. And I was like. 417 00:40:48.870 --> 00:41:10.909 Madison Estes: And so yeah, it's just. And it's not just, you know, with books, it's everywhere, but especially with horror writing. So I wanted to ask, you guys, you know. What effect do you think censorship has on the creativity of horror writers? And what advice would you give to someone that wants to write horror? But maybe is a little bit afraid because of censorship. 418 00:41:12.430 --> 00:41:23.070 E.R. Bills: I would ignore. I would ignore any of the. If you don't mind me jumping in, I would ignore any of the instructions of what not to ride, and I would ignore the sensors as well. I mean, it's 419 00:41:23.520 --> 00:41:24.660 E.R. Bills: it's a 420 00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:40.730 E.R. Bills: it's in. It's asinine, it's inane. It's UN-american. Everything you say about it. Some of my books are on basically on those lists, my nonfiction books. But some of my horror also sort of treads 421 00:41:41.190 --> 00:41:43.489 E.R. Bills: the same territory. And 422 00:41:44.850 --> 00:41:50.779 E.R. Bills: you know, it's just not going to work. I mean, it's it's a great political football to kick around. But 423 00:41:51.410 --> 00:41:53.279 E.R. Bills: even though sometimes I think the 424 00:41:53.820 --> 00:41:56.520 E.R. Bills: a large part of the populace is asentient. 425 00:41:57.900 --> 00:42:05.280 E.R. Bills: there are still, there are still people that are paying attention, and there are still people that want to want to know things. 426 00:42:05.900 --> 00:42:19.479 E.R. Bills: and the readership is there, and I think actually, it'll have the opposite effect. I mean, you push the pendulum. It's certainly not swinging of its own accord, but you push it this way too far. Eventually it swings back, and even if your story 427 00:42:19.750 --> 00:42:26.919 E.R. Bills: maybe doesn't resonate immediately or with a big enough crowd immediately immediate. Eventually it will. And 428 00:42:26.970 --> 00:42:40.059 E.R. Bills: and so I take it as a challenge. You know, Albert Camus, you know Nobel Prize winner, 1957. Literature said in dangerous times. Artists create dangerously. Now, I don't know if writing stuff that's going to be censored is necessary. 429 00:42:40.260 --> 00:42:45.229 E.R. Bills: Is necessarily you taking on or risking danger. But it's like 430 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:51.810 E.R. Bills: it's a process that's similar. You should, you should say, no, I'm gonna this is what I think. This is what I'm 431 00:42:51.900 --> 00:42:55.260 E.R. Bills: this is what I'm going to do. And and this is how it went. And 432 00:42:55.290 --> 00:42:59.939 E.R. Bills: I've ignored that from the beginning, and and I think a lot of writers have. Stephen King 433 00:43:00.030 --> 00:43:04.210 E.R. Bills: has his whole career really, I mean, even if you go back to the dead zone he was 434 00:43:04.550 --> 00:43:11.979 E.R. Bills: talking talking about speaking out against Vietnam in that book, and and even in recent years, you know, he's obviously very political 435 00:43:12.100 --> 00:43:17.159 E.R. Bills: in the background, and so is Joe R. Lansdell sort of our Stephen King here in Texas, and 436 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:18.260 E.R. Bills: I just 437 00:43:19.580 --> 00:43:28.060 E.R. Bills: horror, you know. Horror! Horror is a genre. People kind of look down their nose at it for a long time in terms of film and things. But 438 00:43:28.390 --> 00:43:31.580 E.R. Bills: you know you go back and you read Shirley Jackson's The Lottery. 439 00:43:31.790 --> 00:43:32.820 E.R. Bills: or 440 00:43:33.900 --> 00:43:36.519 E.R. Bills: Well, any any number of works. 441 00:43:37.350 --> 00:43:45.860 E.R. Bills: And and it's part of it's part of the conversation. It's part of what you can explore. The thing or the thing from outer space, was a discussion of Mccarthyism. 442 00:43:45.890 --> 00:43:47.199 E.R. Bills: You know Communism? 443 00:43:49.300 --> 00:43:53.249 E.R. Bills: you know we have our sort of role in cleaning this 444 00:43:54.060 --> 00:43:55.919 E.R. Bills: this ridiculousness up. 445 00:43:56.160 --> 00:44:01.719 E.R. Bills: and I don't think you could just sit back and no offense. Write vampire stories or werewolf stories 446 00:44:01.850 --> 00:44:07.860 E.R. Bills: or ghost stories without addressing the horror that's occurring in our society right now. 447 00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:10.210 E.R. Bills: That's just my opinion. 448 00:44:10.640 --> 00:44:14.320 E.R. Bills: I think it's irresponsible if you do, and I think it's a betrayal of your craft 449 00:44:14.910 --> 00:44:16.549 E.R. Bills: you have to take on 450 00:44:17.130 --> 00:44:18.900 E.R. Bills: contemporary injustice 451 00:44:19.710 --> 00:44:21.010 E.R. Bills: or irrelevant. 452 00:44:23.110 --> 00:44:23.810 E.R. Bills: Yeah. 453 00:44:23.810 --> 00:44:24.380 Jacklyn Baker: I 454 00:44:24.520 --> 00:44:27.790 Jacklyn Baker: I think horror, in particular, as a genre. 455 00:44:27.850 --> 00:44:37.389 Jacklyn Baker: is very important in pushing back against things like that, because the things that you're avoiding the most are the things that you need to confront the most. 456 00:44:37.930 --> 00:44:47.140 Jacklyn Baker: And you know horror stories are, you know, kind of a safe environment to do that in, you know, even if you do scare yourself with them. But 457 00:44:48.240 --> 00:44:49.540 Jacklyn Baker: yeah, it's 458 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:52.390 Jacklyn Baker: it's important to 459 00:44:52.980 --> 00:44:55.646 Jacklyn Baker: not let people tell you what to write. 460 00:44:56.270 --> 00:44:57.643 E.R. Bills: That's a good way to put it. 461 00:45:00.020 --> 00:45:11.399 Mario Martinez: No, agreed. I think that when it comes to the idea of censorship, and should people listen to them, I mean, maybe it's the the Punk Rock background I had when I was young. 462 00:45:11.520 --> 00:45:21.069 Mario Martinez: Who cares what they have to say? Frankly, the people that tell you you need to censor their work. You show me how big their library is. I don't think it's very big. 463 00:45:22.410 --> 00:45:23.440 Mario Martinez: Don't read. 464 00:45:23.570 --> 00:45:26.820 Mario Martinez: And so the other thing is that even though 465 00:45:27.830 --> 00:45:42.050 Mario Martinez: I get it. That horror is a very big tent, and it can be kind of schlocky, and sometimes it can be kind of goofy, and it can be kind of funny. I was just talking to a class. I mean about an hour ago. That horror 466 00:45:42.130 --> 00:45:53.329 Mario Martinez: shows you what is terrifying to people of a culture, to terrifying to people of a time, and even though you can use a monster. 467 00:45:53.610 --> 00:46:01.830 Mario Martinez: it can symbolize something different that does have a larger impact. I think, in one of the novels that I've written. Ashtree, which is 468 00:46:01.910 --> 00:46:16.279 Mario Martinez: the premise, is a drugged out rodeo Clown, going to the town of Ashtree, and wondering why he keeps hallucinating horrible things. I mean, one side of it is that it's a strange story, but the other one is that 469 00:46:16.610 --> 00:46:43.549 Mario Martinez: this is about trying to recreate the past and bring it out of the dustpan of history, and how that really just creates chaos and discord versus just the natural progression of life. But is it kind of a monster story? Yeah, I mean, I thought that was cool, and it was inspired a lot by things like Silent Hill. And what was that story by HP. Lovecraft, Innsmouth. I believe it was. 470 00:46:43.600 --> 00:46:50.250 Mario Martinez: Those things sure kind of guided me a little bit, but at the end of the day, if you take enough steps back. 471 00:46:51.400 --> 00:47:18.479 Mario Martinez: it is art. It doesn't matter if it's using something that has become cartoonish. You can talk about so many things. I mean speaking of Stephen King, the shining is just a man dealing with alcoholism, and not wanting to recreate the sins of his past, yet inevitably will fall into it now, is it just a haunted house story, I mean, on one hand? Sure. But the other hand, no, it's very much deeper, and I think that 472 00:47:18.740 --> 00:47:22.700 Mario Martinez: that's 1 of the things that you always have to remind yourself when you're writing. 473 00:47:22.890 --> 00:47:43.309 Mario Martinez: You are making art, and sometimes it's just art for art's sake. But other times it will have a deeper resonance. And so you have to kind of treat it with that reverence and that kind of outright disdain for what other people say about the well, it's maybe too shocking. Maybe the theme is too dark. Maybe people won't like it. 474 00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:53.630 Mario Martinez: hey? That's kind of not my problem that's theirs. I'm gonna write as I see fit, you know. That's always been, I mean, that's always been my approach to it. If they don't like it. They're never gonna like it. To begin with. 475 00:47:54.140 --> 00:47:55.979 E.R. Bills: Holiday in Cambodia. 476 00:47:58.700 --> 00:47:59.350 Mario Martinez: Agreed. 477 00:48:02.590 --> 00:48:22.260 Madison Estes: Yeah, great answers. And you know, I agree completely. In fact, it's kind of funny and a lot of online forums. I see mostly Facebook. But I'm friends with a lot of horror writers on Facebook. Sometimes it can actually be like a badge of pride to have stories that have gotten one star reviews, or even whole collections 478 00:48:22.260 --> 00:48:39.710 Madison Estes: and people saying this was terrible. It's awful! This is, you know, some of the worst things. This person has a demented mind. Once they start criticizing you as a person. It's like, all right, I got them. So that's another way to maybe look at it is to maybe kind of wear it as a badge of pride if that helps. 479 00:48:39.710 --> 00:48:58.859 Madison Estes: And I realized, as everybody was talking, I kind of have my own experience with being a little bit afraid and trying to censor myself with that story pestilence! It had been rejected several times from publishers. That kind of had that reaction of this is a little too much, or I just wouldn't get an answer at all. 480 00:48:58.860 --> 00:49:01.589 E.R. Bills: Can I interject. Can I interject? 481 00:49:01.610 --> 00:49:17.899 E.R. Bills: That is insane? That that is so ridiculous. That story comes at you fangs, bared claws, you know, out, and it it's like going for your throat right off the bat. I don't understand how anybody passed on that story, or how it fell to us, because I was. I was. 482 00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:21.870 E.R. Bills: I was kind of stupefied. I think we mentioned that back then, and I was like 483 00:49:21.970 --> 00:49:30.259 E.R. Bills: what? Because it was timely and it was. It was original, and it was told from a really 484 00:49:30.860 --> 00:49:34.520 E.R. Bills: almost gutterally personal point of view. 485 00:49:34.670 --> 00:49:35.700 E.R. Bills: it was. 486 00:49:35.800 --> 00:49:37.769 E.R. Bills: Wow, that's shocking to me. 487 00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:41.020 E.R. Bills: But I could see where, you know, it might rain on 488 00:49:41.660 --> 00:49:44.099 E.R. Bills: somebody's political football. I guess. 489 00:49:47.170 --> 00:50:03.530 Madison Estes: Yeah, yeah. And I'd kind of since it had been rejected so many times by the time roadkill submissions opened up. I was like, well, this is clearly one of my B stories. It's been rejected so many times like this must not be that good. But I didn't have anything else at the time, because I had so much stuff going on, so I just submitted it. And I was like, well. 490 00:50:03.530 --> 00:50:06.390 E.R. Bills: Oh, thanks! Give us your second second tier stuff. 491 00:50:06.776 --> 00:50:07.550 Mario Martinez: I just. 492 00:50:08.470 --> 00:50:09.390 Madison Estes: Yeah. 493 00:50:09.390 --> 00:50:12.593 E.R. Bills: That may be a candidate for the the 494 00:50:13.230 --> 00:50:16.619 E.R. Bills: the road the best of roadkill. It's so good. 495 00:50:17.200 --> 00:50:17.690 Jacklyn Baker: That's. 496 00:50:17.690 --> 00:50:18.790 E.R. Bills: It's crazy. 497 00:50:19.050 --> 00:50:26.719 Madison Estes: Now that was another case of me missing the deadline. I think I was working on the story. I submitted the next year. 498 00:50:26.720 --> 00:50:49.759 Madison Estes: Whatever that was, was it unfinished story? I don't remember. But and I didn't finish it on time ironically. So yeah, that was one reason. But yeah, that that is ended up being my most popular story. It was the one that I was like. Oh, people are going to hate this. They're going to think it's terrible. And even my dad was like, Yeah, that one's pretty memorable. My mom did not. I told her the synopsis, and she's like, I'm not reading that one. 499 00:50:50.060 --> 00:50:50.360 E.R. Bills: But. 500 00:50:50.360 --> 00:51:08.350 Madison Estes: My dad loved it. So, you know, even though I was a little worried about what he's gonna think you know a lot of the times. The fears that you might have are baseless, and you might be surprised at how much your friends like your weird stuff or your family. Even so, 501 00:51:08.690 --> 00:51:18.990 E.R. Bills: You might be surprised how weird your friends are. I mean the audience. I think it resonated with young young ladies, young women. I could see. Obviously I'd be on the other end of that. 502 00:51:19.270 --> 00:51:21.169 E.R. Bills: That's that plot line. 503 00:51:21.330 --> 00:51:23.160 E.R. Bills: But, young women, I thought. 504 00:51:23.380 --> 00:51:26.029 E.R. Bills: man, that really goes to the 505 00:51:26.580 --> 00:51:28.129 E.R. Bills: the gist. I think of 506 00:51:28.160 --> 00:51:30.840 E.R. Bills: of what is probably on a lot of their minds. 507 00:51:33.350 --> 00:51:35.850 E.R. Bills: I don't know. I thought it was really impressive. 508 00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:46.659 Madison Estes: Thank you. And yeah. And another thing, I remember reading it out loud at the the writing panel that we had at murder by the books. 509 00:51:46.660 --> 00:52:11.660 Madison Estes: and the crowd was just full of like older ladies. And I was like, Oh, my God! I forgot that there's a really graphic sex scene in it that involves like a half man, half horse. I was like, I'm really going to read this scene because I didn't think about the fact that, you know, I just didn't think about reading it out loud. I didn't even know that we were doing that. And then I looked up, and they were really engaged in it. They loved it. And then afterwards they came up to me. And they're like. 510 00:52:11.660 --> 00:52:14.909 Madison Estes: I'm definitely gonna read your story. So you just know. 511 00:52:14.910 --> 00:52:16.880 E.R. Bills: Getting mounted by one of the 512 00:52:17.150 --> 00:52:22.920 E.R. Bills: getting mounted by one of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. That that is. 513 00:52:25.170 --> 00:52:25.640 Madison Estes: Yeah. 514 00:52:25.650 --> 00:52:26.700 E.R. Bills: Oh, yeah. 515 00:52:28.050 --> 00:52:41.780 Madison Estes: So, you know. Just cut yourself some slack if you're looking into writing horror for the 1st time, and you're nervous about, you know, being going too far. Don't be. You probably just haven't found your audience. 516 00:52:42.321 --> 00:53:00.430 Madison Estes: Okay. So I think now we should take some questions from the audience. Oh, wow, it's a crowded room today. Thank you guys for showing up. Thank you. But yeah, if we have any questions, I think this would be a good time to start taking. I see in the Q&A 517 00:53:00.970 --> 00:53:01.930 Madison Estes: okay. 518 00:53:02.250 --> 00:53:19.449 Madison Estes: And from anonymous attendee. In a recent talk Steven Graham Jones said that it's his job to let the bodies hit the floor as a horror writer. I'm curious how each of you handle deciding how far to take the horror and gore in your writing and have your limits change throughout your career. 519 00:53:20.330 --> 00:53:21.310 Madison Estes: Okay. 520 00:53:22.410 --> 00:53:22.800 E.R. Bills: I don't think. 521 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:23.210 Madison Estes: Kind of 522 00:53:23.976 --> 00:53:24.769 Madison Estes: go ahead. 523 00:53:25.998 --> 00:53:38.421 Madison Estes: Just, I do want to have your limits change throughout your career. Did you guys have something similar to my awakening, or have you? Just? I think your bills, you said you've just always been. I'm gonna write whatever I want to write. 524 00:53:38.710 --> 00:53:41.589 E.R. Bills: Necessary at all. I don't think it's necessary at all. I don't think. 525 00:53:41.590 --> 00:53:42.100 Madison Estes: Oh! 526 00:53:42.100 --> 00:53:44.500 E.R. Bills: Some of the scariest stuff is just heady. 527 00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:46.260 E.R. Bills: heady. 528 00:53:46.630 --> 00:53:50.300 E.R. Bills: The implications, I mean, even even today, I mean. 529 00:53:50.510 --> 00:53:51.790 E.R. Bills: you know. 530 00:53:52.490 --> 00:53:54.349 E.R. Bills: you know the Gore stories 531 00:53:54.740 --> 00:53:56.599 E.R. Bills: or for the Peanut gallery. 532 00:53:56.800 --> 00:54:05.330 E.R. Bills: In my opinion, I mean, of course, it's important, and there's going to be Gore. And, as Mario said, and it wasn't just Cormac Mccarthy said it way after 533 00:54:05.850 --> 00:54:10.363 E.R. Bills: Hemingway. You know it's not a true story. If somebody doesn't die 534 00:54:11.150 --> 00:54:14.549 E.R. Bills: there's gonna be gore, and there's going to be. People die, but 535 00:54:15.470 --> 00:54:24.110 E.R. Bills: the implications are just as scary sometimes as the act. You don't have to lay it out there, but you know stories can enjoy elements of both. 536 00:54:24.290 --> 00:54:25.310 E.R. Bills: or 537 00:54:26.650 --> 00:54:39.419 E.R. Bills: you know, or or just rely on one or the other. So I think a lot of stuff I've written doesn't have a lot of gore at all. I don't know if anything I've written has gore, does it? Do you remember anything? I don't know. I'd have to think about that real hard. 538 00:54:40.080 --> 00:54:41.649 E.R. Bills: I mean, people die. 539 00:54:42.070 --> 00:54:51.119 Madison Estes: Yeah, and definitely has some very disturbing content. Again, like recumbent female nude is excellent, very disturbing. But yeah, there's not really gore in that. So. 540 00:54:51.120 --> 00:54:51.560 E.R. Bills: No. 541 00:54:51.560 --> 00:54:53.100 Madison Estes: Have to think about some more. 542 00:54:53.100 --> 00:55:01.340 E.R. Bills: I think you can go. You can jump either way, and you can. You can justify either, and you can. You can compel an audience, and you can captivate an audience with gore 543 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:02.649 E.R. Bills: or with just 544 00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:04.270 E.R. Bills: ugly dark 545 00:55:05.010 --> 00:55:08.680 E.R. Bills: truths or or suggestions. 546 00:55:08.690 --> 00:55:17.379 E.R. Bills: And obviously the streaming channels are mining every avenue of that, you know. They'll get heady. They'll get gory. They'll get 547 00:55:17.510 --> 00:55:24.730 E.R. Bills: perverted, and sometimes they'll try to. If they can't do it strong enough. In one or 2 they'll try to throw it all together in a mishmash. 548 00:55:26.160 --> 00:55:27.130 E.R. Bills: So 549 00:55:28.410 --> 00:55:32.950 E.R. Bills: just depends on your command. It's like, I'm not a big baseball guy, but you have to have more 550 00:55:33.430 --> 00:55:36.249 E.R. Bills: these days. In horror, I would say. 551 00:55:36.410 --> 00:55:40.359 E.R. Bills: body, body, count, and gore is like your fastball. 552 00:55:40.740 --> 00:55:43.630 E.R. Bills: You gotta have a curve. You gotta have a knuckle, maybe a slider. 553 00:55:43.720 --> 00:55:47.759 E.R. Bills: You need to have some other pitches. You need to have something else going on 554 00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:51.149 E.R. Bills: just to get the rod or to really strike. Sorry to 555 00:55:51.230 --> 00:55:55.720 E.R. Bills: strike the reader, maybe not out, but strike them in a way that 556 00:55:55.940 --> 00:55:58.670 E.R. Bills: you know compels them, or gets them to think about 557 00:55:58.700 --> 00:56:01.060 E.R. Bills: what they've just experienced. 558 00:56:03.430 --> 00:56:05.080 Madison Estes: Yeah, that's really. 559 00:56:05.270 --> 00:56:07.470 Madison Estes: that's a good answer definitely. 560 00:56:08.490 --> 00:56:11.269 Mario Martinez: Mean to answer the question. Oh, sorry, Madison. 561 00:56:11.644 --> 00:56:13.769 Mario Martinez: I was just gonna say that 562 00:56:14.220 --> 00:56:16.269 Mario Martinez: to me with Gore 563 00:56:17.010 --> 00:56:26.719 Mario Martinez: it's always. It always depends on the story. The the story calls for certain things and let's say promises, promises. 564 00:56:26.790 --> 00:56:39.850 Mario Martinez: You know someone gets shot in the head, and you would think, well, I could have spent 3 paragraphs talking about the the spray of blood and the the bits of bone and things like that. But 565 00:56:40.100 --> 00:56:46.139 Mario Martinez: the purpose wasn't the gore. It was everything kind of beyond that, whereas 566 00:56:46.550 --> 00:56:49.360 Mario Martinez: in something like, let's say, my novel ash tree. 567 00:56:49.420 --> 00:57:00.550 Mario Martinez: it is as gory as gory can be. I mean I paint with vivid reds in that one, because the story kind of called for it. And I've always just felt that 568 00:57:01.780 --> 00:57:09.269 Mario Martinez: if you do something with purpose, then, even if it is like horrifyingly disgusting. 569 00:57:09.570 --> 00:57:17.919 Mario Martinez: it's understandable that it was done for that way. If you're just doing it, because well, it's a scary story, there should be some blood. It's 570 00:57:18.090 --> 00:57:24.150 Mario Martinez: you're putting parsley on a plate. I'm just looking at it for nothing. I'm not supposed to eat what's going on, you know. 571 00:57:26.330 --> 00:57:31.719 Jacklyn Baker: I I agree with what you said, Mario. It's it has a lot to do with the tone of the story, and if it's 572 00:57:31.800 --> 00:57:36.450 Jacklyn Baker: appropriate, for you know, if you have, like a haunted house story, you're not gonna expect 573 00:57:36.700 --> 00:57:44.740 Jacklyn Baker: people to get, you know, decapitated left and right. Necessarily, it's not the right atmosphere. But then you have something that is gory, and it's about that. 574 00:57:44.860 --> 00:57:50.279 Jacklyn Baker: that madness, maybe driving the the bloodshed, or whatever the story might be. 575 00:57:50.500 --> 00:57:55.760 Jacklyn Baker: I mean, as far as like my limits, and how far I'll go, and if that's changed. 576 00:57:56.540 --> 00:57:59.728 Jacklyn Baker: I I wouldn't say it has. 577 00:58:00.900 --> 00:58:06.729 Jacklyn Baker: you know I sort of just woke up one day and realized that I was like a horror person, because I wasn't always 578 00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:07.810 Jacklyn Baker: when I was young 579 00:58:08.581 --> 00:58:27.410 Jacklyn Baker: but I just woke up one day and was like, I am the scary thing. Let's let's explore that. So you know, and I and I do, and I write so, and I don't think I have any any limits per se. There might be stuff that I'm like. Well, I'm not really interested in writing about that subject, so I'm not going to write about the 580 00:58:27.560 --> 00:58:30.400 Jacklyn Baker: the monster. That's the metaphor for that subject. 581 00:58:32.950 --> 00:58:34.750 E.R. Bills: I'd be afraid to know. 582 00:58:36.720 --> 00:58:38.216 Jacklyn Baker: Some people probably would. 583 00:58:41.990 --> 00:58:54.690 Madison Estes: I love that I am the scary thing you guys are just giving me all kinds of inspiration for quotes in my office. Now, thank you. That is words to live by. I am the scary thing that's great. 584 00:58:56.430 --> 00:59:03.970 Madison Estes: from Alex. Mack wants to know what would be your advice on dealing with legal censorship specifically 585 00:59:06.110 --> 00:59:09.899 Madison Estes: have any of y'all had any experiences with legal censorship. 586 00:59:10.090 --> 00:59:11.939 E.R. Bills: I have. You have to. 587 00:59:12.890 --> 00:59:19.400 E.R. Bills: You don't tolerate it, Madison. You may be aware of this, but I went to appear at a 588 00:59:19.450 --> 00:59:22.999 E.R. Bills: forth public library, which is funded in part by the Texas 589 00:59:23.510 --> 00:59:26.440 E.R. Bills: Texas Government in some way, form or fashion. 590 00:59:26.640 --> 00:59:27.610 E.R. Bills: and 591 00:59:28.110 --> 00:59:35.520 E.R. Bills: they had a permission they had. They had a contract. I had to sign before I could get to go, and could go and talk about this book that I've written. 592 00:59:35.580 --> 00:59:40.599 E.R. Bills: and this book that I've written had nothing to do, really, with anything terribly political. 593 00:59:41.750 --> 00:59:49.069 E.R. Bills: but they gave me a contract, and it was the State of Texas, 30 pages and the last 3 pages. There were 3 articles. 594 00:59:49.710 --> 00:59:51.352 E.R. Bills: and they said, 595 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:53.880 E.R. Bills: cannot discuss 596 00:59:54.040 --> 00:59:56.290 E.R. Bills: or basically disparage 597 00:59:56.510 --> 00:59:58.039 E.R. Bills: the firearm industry. 598 00:59:58.560 --> 01:00:01.839 E.R. Bills: And then it said, something like cannot discuss or disparage 599 01:00:03.190 --> 01:00:07.979 E.R. Bills: the energy lobby or the energy industry here in Texas or whatever. 600 01:00:08.080 --> 01:00:09.740 E.R. Bills: and then it also had a 601 01:00:09.910 --> 01:00:13.319 E.R. Bills: an article on, cannot discuss or disparage the State of Israel. 602 01:00:14.850 --> 01:00:16.179 E.R. Bills: and I thought 603 01:00:17.210 --> 01:00:24.809 E.R. Bills: the book was a hundred things to do in Texas before you die. It was a travel book, you know, a sideline book, and 604 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:29.210 E.R. Bills: and I called the librarian, and I said, You know what? I'm not going to sign this. 605 01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:33.220 E.R. Bills: and the librarian said, I wouldn't either. You know any venues 606 01:00:33.390 --> 01:00:36.639 E.R. Bills: that require you to censor yourself. Don't participate in them. 607 01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:38.680 E.R. Bills: Don't participate in them. 608 01:00:38.810 --> 01:00:40.010 E.R. Bills: I mean, they're like 609 01:00:40.290 --> 01:00:41.200 E.R. Bills: they're like 610 01:00:41.500 --> 01:00:49.479 E.R. Bills: productions and athletic venues that are losing out because they're in places like Texas, and the freedoms here 611 01:00:49.790 --> 01:00:50.910 E.R. Bills: are being 612 01:00:51.670 --> 01:00:55.069 E.R. Bills: truncated. 613 01:00:55.530 --> 01:00:57.500 E.R. Bills: abridged 614 01:00:58.200 --> 01:00:59.810 E.R. Bills: in scary ways. 615 01:00:59.820 --> 01:01:04.489 E.R. Bills: and and and corporations aren't playing part to it. 616 01:01:04.960 --> 01:01:13.820 E.R. Bills: or will not be a part of it, and I get that. And as a rider you have that freedom too. There are other venues. There are other avenues you could pursue. 617 01:01:13.870 --> 01:01:15.390 E.R. Bills: and I would not. 618 01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:21.969 E.R. Bills: I just wouldn't be a part of it. In that case it would have been a good reading event, and it was in Fort Worth which is close to where I live. 619 01:01:22.020 --> 01:01:25.169 E.R. Bills: and it would have been great to go talk about travel, but 620 01:01:25.250 --> 01:01:26.570 E.R. Bills: not at the 621 01:01:26.580 --> 01:01:30.969 E.R. Bills: sacrifice of my principles, and not if they're asking me to be UN-american. 622 01:01:31.220 --> 01:01:33.639 E.R. Bills: because that's UN-american. That's fascist. 623 01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:36.970 E.R. Bills: and I don't understand how we've gotten to that place. 624 01:01:36.990 --> 01:01:39.810 E.R. Bills: That doesn't matter where and where you're at in the world. 625 01:01:40.150 --> 01:01:41.950 E.R. Bills: If if 626 01:01:42.080 --> 01:01:51.680 E.R. Bills: if it's a violation of of just basic, decent human principle or intellectual freedom, you can't take part in it, even if you want to sell books. That's my opinion. But 627 01:01:51.790 --> 01:01:57.989 E.R. Bills: I'm probably a little harder core about it. I still know how to slam. Dance. Mario. 628 01:01:57.990 --> 01:01:58.800 Mario Martinez: Nice? 629 01:02:00.720 --> 01:02:04.530 Mario Martinez: No, and I mean to to expand on that a little bit. 630 01:02:05.180 --> 01:02:18.029 Mario Martinez: The truth of the matter is that yes, there may be places that want to do something like that. I mean, I think it's wild that the State of Texas would ask you to do something like that. But at the same time, I'm not all that surprised. 631 01:02:18.310 --> 01:02:22.970 Mario Martinez: but the good thing is that in the 21st century 632 01:02:24.400 --> 01:02:27.979 Mario Martinez: crowds have gotten smaller, but that's all you need 633 01:02:28.080 --> 01:02:42.880 Mario Martinez: that the way that it used to be to reach a thousand people? Yeah, you needed the State of Texas to help you so they could put you in the right spot, and they could help advertise for you and all that. I mean, how many people are taking part in this horror fest 634 01:02:43.140 --> 01:02:48.500 Mario Martinez: from all over the country from different parts of the world, as I'm seeing, you know from the chat. 635 01:02:49.290 --> 01:03:07.830 Mario Martinez: If you want to do something where you can read to people to sell your book to people. There's a thousand different ways to do it to where you can build an audience that has nothing to do with your local governments, your local communities. And not only that. The one thing that is, you know, the world is always changing. 636 01:03:08.370 --> 01:03:20.499 Mario Martinez: Young people are always the same. They're rebellious. The Public Library doesn't want to put your stuff. Go find somebody with bolts through their nose and colored hair. They'll gladly put you up there because 637 01:03:21.040 --> 01:03:26.110 Mario Martinez: people are interested in what you have to say. It's just finding the right group. 638 01:03:26.140 --> 01:03:41.439 Mario Martinez: And I would say, if someone's trying to censor you, whether that is a publisher. Whether it is a venue, you know. Tell them where to go. You don't need you don't need them as it is, even with me to get my books out to the public. 639 01:03:41.510 --> 01:03:46.009 Mario Martinez: I've tried selling them online. I try sending them to the traditional publishers 640 01:03:46.090 --> 01:04:09.829 Mario Martinez: at the end of the day. I just do it myself, and I go sell it to people myself. I go push my own product, and I do a lot better than somebody that has to twist themselves into a pretzel because well, hey, this is a good publisher, and maybe their Pr. Team can help me sell 10,000 copies frankly, of a book that they didn't think much about, because they had to change so much of it to fit 641 01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:20.619 Mario Martinez: what somebody thinks might sell. So yeah, I mean shave a Mohawk in my head. Don't worry about the profits. Go. Do you know 642 01:04:20.930 --> 01:04:32.040 Mario Martinez: the audiences are out there? It's just a matter of finding them and not putting up with that kind of nonsense of you're telling me. I can't disparage the oil industry if I read. 643 01:04:32.410 --> 01:04:36.189 Mario Martinez: so I guess I guess my next story is going to be about fracking. 644 01:04:39.620 --> 01:04:44.780 Jacklyn Baker: I I agree with you all. I don't think you have to engage with organizations like that. 645 01:04:45.010 --> 01:04:50.630 Jacklyn Baker: It's it's a big, wide world, and there's always other avenues, and you know, places to 646 01:04:51.130 --> 01:04:58.188 Jacklyn Baker: put your stuff out there. I I left Texas. So maybe that's that's what you do sometimes. 647 01:05:00.260 --> 01:05:03.170 E.R. Bills: No, no, these are the trench. These are the trenches. Baby. 648 01:05:03.425 --> 01:05:03.680 Jacklyn Baker: Okay. 649 01:05:05.780 --> 01:05:07.340 E.R. Bills: Stay in 5. 650 01:05:10.710 --> 01:05:11.400 Jacklyn Baker: Oh! 651 01:05:11.708 --> 01:05:24.680 Madison Estes: Yeah, I think that we are just about done. But I mean, you guys should see the comment section. Lots of people are agreeing with y'all. And someone said, I am for sure the scary thing. Yeah, that's that's a great quote. 652 01:05:25.183 --> 01:05:47.509 Madison Estes: But yeah, great attitude, I think, to have towards censorship, especially regarding things like again, like the oil company can't say anything bad about them that feels very cult-like, and it's good to just stay away from people like that, because the thing is in general, anytime you get into some kind of financial 653 01:05:47.510 --> 01:06:10.790 Madison Estes: contract with someone you want to make sure that you moralistically agree on the same things, because if it's difficult at the beginning, it's just going to get more difficult. So that's my addition. But great responses everyone, both for that last question and the whole panel. You guys have been fantastic. Thank you guys so much for showing up and for participating and for having such wonderful responses. 654 01:06:12.170 --> 01:06:13.390 Mario Martinez: Thank you for having us. 655 01:06:15.620 --> 01:06:37.660 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Thank you. Sorry. Thank you so much, everyone. Thank you. Madison, er Jacqueline and Mario. This was such a good session, and I've been following the the comments. And people are so engaged, I think everyone really really enjoyed it. So a really, really big thank you to to all of you for for spending your time with us, and also 656 01:06:37.720 --> 01:06:53.039 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: thanks to the audience for for joining us. Yeah, we will. We will share the replay of this session and and other sessions as well. In the in the hub. I shared the link earlier. 657 01:06:53.060 --> 01:07:01.890 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: and you'll see also links for each of our panelists, so please do check them up. 658 01:07:02.050 --> 01:07:14.559 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: and we hope you we hope you join us in the next session. We'll have a networking event, this speed dating event, so please join us, and we'll be 659 01:07:14.940 --> 01:07:20.340 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: we're we're happy to have you, and we we hope to have you in in in the future. 660 01:07:20.350 --> 01:07:21.490 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Thank you. Everyone. 661 01:07:23.220 --> 01:07:24.280 E.R. Bills: Thank you. Emilio. 662 01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:25.090 Jacklyn Baker: You know. 663 01:07:25.090 --> 01:07:26.010 Mario Martinez: Thanks again. 664 01:07:26.350 --> 01:07:27.470 Mario Martinez: and. 665 01:07:28.010 --> 01:07:28.680 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Bye, bye. 666 01:07:29.560 --> 01:07:31.220 Madison Estes: Bye. Have a good night, everyone. 667 01:07:31.490 --> 01:07:33.130 Emilio @ ProWritingAid: Thank you, you too. Same to you.