WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.690 --> 00:00:05.960 Tom Wilde: Hey? Hey? Everybody! 2 00:00:06.160 --> 00:00:31.305 Tom Wilde: Thank you for joining. Welcome, welcome, one and all, to day. 2 of Science Fiction writers Week. My name is Tom from pro writing aid. I've already met some of you before. Welcome, if this is your 1st time or your 30th time great to have you here, we're really excited about today's session as per usual. Hi, again, Patrick, I see you're on my one. Yesterday. I remember. 3 00:00:31.670 --> 00:00:47.940 Tom Wilde: If if you can see everything working. Okay, just pop your name and where you're dialing in from in chat. We'll say a few hellos before we move on, always great great to see the kind of reach of these sessions. Great Hi, Lisa! From Idaho. Marco. 4 00:00:48.020 --> 00:00:54.930 Tom Wilde: esteemed Guest has added his comment. As well. We've got Abigail from Philippines. Wow! Fantastic 5 00:00:55.100 --> 00:00:57.039 Tom Wilde: Tp. Wood from Nova Scotia. 6 00:00:57.770 --> 00:01:02.279 Tom Wilde: Love. Looking at some of these places new, another one from Canada, Newfoundland. 7 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:06.160 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: We? We got some East coasters from Canada. That's cool, awesome. 8 00:01:06.160 --> 00:01:11.179 Tom Wilde: Absolutely, absolutely and quite a few quite a few West coasts in California as well. 9 00:01:11.662 --> 00:01:12.839 Tom Wilde: Luca! From London. 10 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:16.460 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: There's Canadian content, I'm gonna add specifically for my Canadian friends. 11 00:01:16.851 --> 00:01:19.980 Tom Wilde: All right, you know. Hold it back. 12 00:01:20.290 --> 00:01:29.149 Tom Wilde: Who else we got Richard from Toronto? It's a huge Canadian contingent today, Mark, have you been? You've been doing some work, haven't you? I know I know this. It's behind the scenes. 13 00:01:29.150 --> 00:01:33.799 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Only shared a couple of things about this, you know. Schedule wise. So. 14 00:01:33.800 --> 00:01:39.749 Tom Wilde: Okay, great stuff. Okay? So what we'll do while everyone else joins, get settled. 15 00:01:39.990 --> 00:01:52.990 Tom Wilde: We'll run through the usual housekeeping slides, and then I'm going to hand straight over to my. I know it's got a lot of content to get through today. It's going to be great. But just to remind you. So let's run a few, a few through a few of the things on the screen. 16 00:01:53.527 --> 00:02:17.700 Tom Wilde: Replays, you can access. You sign up for this week you have access to all the replays you can access. Mark slides. I think he's got a little promo for you as well. That'll be detailed, and those details are all in the Hub page. So you'll be able to access those replays all in the Hub page. I'm putting that in the chat now, the link. The recording today will take a little bit of time to process. Then it will be there 17 00:02:17.730 --> 00:02:26.240 Tom Wilde: and they'll also be posted to our community page. I'll come onto community in a minute, but they'll be in the community page from the 20th September. 18 00:02:26.290 --> 00:02:53.470 Tom Wilde: hey? Premium day. So Friday is our premium day if you want to come along on Friday, we would love to have you there. It's for premium and premium pro users. Only you can sign up so you can subscribe to premium premium, have access to Friday sessions. You need to do that before Friday morning, and you'll receive an email with all the details for logging in for premium day on Friday in the morning 19 00:02:54.070 --> 00:03:13.490 Tom Wilde: next one. We've got special offer, so if you do want to subscribe you, if you do wanna take a premium or premium pro subscription. We've got a special offer for all of you. 15% off yearly premium or premium pro subscriptions. You guys probably already know the difference between the premium premium pro and our our standard free 20 00:03:14.362 --> 00:03:15.065 Tom Wilde: user 21 00:03:16.640 --> 00:03:28.720 Tom Wilde: offer. So with premium pro, you get access to more tools, you get more access to some of our tools like rephrase sparks and critique, some of our newer tools 22 00:03:28.740 --> 00:03:41.090 Tom Wilde: and full integrations, and when I say full integrations, it means you. Can we use for writing it within word, within scrivener? And there's no word count limit. So you can analyze full manuscripts. 23 00:03:41.230 --> 00:03:43.480 Tom Wilde: You've got a 24 00:03:43.570 --> 00:04:02.850 Tom Wilde: discount code. Sfw. 2024 sfw, 2024. Add that at the purchase page, and that'll give you 15% off, and that offer runs until the 27th of September. But, like I said, if you want to use it and access Friday's premium day, go right ahead. I'll add those details to chat later on. 25 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:03.980 Tom Wilde: And then. 26 00:04:04.420 --> 00:04:14.199 Tom Wilde: if you want to keep talking about Science fiction, come and join our community totally free, we've got hundreds of awesome writers and editors there. 27 00:04:14.260 --> 00:04:24.599 Tom Wilde: put the link in chat for you. Come and engage in discussion, ask questions with other like-minded writers, and learn while you're doing so. And then, finally. 28 00:04:24.940 --> 00:04:26.110 Tom Wilde: but today. 29 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:51.119 Tom Wilde: so just a quick housekeeping point on questions, I'm sure you're all gonna have questions for, Mark. What we ask is you use the Q. And a box at the bottom of your screen. If you, if you put your question in chat, the likelihood is, we'll lose it. We we won't see it, and it may not get asked. I think we've got a dedicated Q&A session at the end, so keep adding them to Q. And a as we go along, and then we'll get to them at the end. And I think 30 00:04:51.450 --> 00:04:56.739 Tom Wilde: with that we are pretty good to go. So what I'm going to do 31 00:04:56.770 --> 00:04:59.370 Tom Wilde: is just stop sharing my screen. 32 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:09.710 Tom Wilde: I'm going to introduce Mark, our guest for today, and then I'm going to hand over and sit quietly in the background. So I'm delighted to be joined today by Mark Leslie Lefebvre. 33 00:05:10.289 --> 00:05:36.900 Tom Wilde: And Mark is he started writing in the Mid 19 eighties, had his 1st work published in 1,992. I know. I don't believe that for a word for a minute. The same year he started working as a bookseller. He's since published more than 35 books under the name Mark Leslie, that include novels, anthologies, and a series of nonfiction. Paranormal explorations for Dundon, Canada's largest independent publisher. 34 00:05:36.930 --> 00:05:42.579 Tom Wilde: He's also written several books about the business of writing and publishing under his full name, Mark Leslie Lefebvre. 35 00:05:42.650 --> 00:05:46.479 Tom Wilde: that include publishing pitfalls for authors wide for the win. 36 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:50.640 Tom Wilde: and the relaxed author co-authored with another pro-writing aid 37 00:05:50.690 --> 00:06:00.059 Tom Wilde: household name. Joanna Penn, a big friend of ours, mark has spoken as both an author and publishing industry, professional across Canada and the United States 38 00:06:00.070 --> 00:06:23.870 Tom Wilde: and the Uk. And Europe. Since 1,998, he's also hosted a weekly podcast on the business of writing and publishing, called Stark Reflections on writing and publishing. And last, but not least, there we go on brand mark is also director of business development at Drafter, digital one of our awesome partners at pro writing aid. Mark, delighted to have you with us today. Really. 39 00:06:23.870 --> 00:06:24.550 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Be here! 40 00:06:24.850 --> 00:06:25.720 Tom Wilde: Great stuff I. 41 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:46.320 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And Joe. I got into pro writing aid because of Joanna Pen, and I am such a huge fan. I use it all the time before I send a manuscript off to my editor. It just saves me so much money, and and my editor so much of a headache having to deal with my things, but no, absolutely amazing. So thank you, Tom, and thanks for doing this for authors. 42 00:06:46.320 --> 00:06:52.869 Tom Wilde: Oh, you're welcome, Mark great, to have you here. And with that I'm just gonna turn my camera off and sit in the background, and I'll see you in a. QA. 43 00:06:52.870 --> 00:07:15.759 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Thank you. All right. So I'm I'm gonna start sharing my screen. I'm gonna kick right into the presentation and let me go share the screen, and then I'm gonna have to pop it into. What's the mode? The mode where you actually okay? So 1st of all, I can't see. I'm gonna have to bring the screen down a little bit. Nope, that's not it. 44 00:07:16.845 --> 00:07:44.689 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah, I should have done this. There it is. Slide show from the beginning. So you know the tech things, all the tech things I'm also gonna reduce the screen. So I'm not gonna be able to see any comments or anything like that. But I will get to your comments when I finish the presentation. Not gonna go through my biography at all. Just a little bit of a background on who I am. It is true that my very 1st published short story, you know, for $5 and a contributors copy of the magazine was in 1,992, when I started 45 00:07:44.690 --> 00:08:09.659 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: in the book Industry, and I self published my 1st book in 2,004. My 1st traditionally published book wasn't until 2,006, but I love collaboration. I love books, and I love working with other authors. Now this presentation is going to be based on content, mostly from 3 of my books. And and this is not just a self promotional slide. There's a point to this, based on the topic. 46 00:08:10.030 --> 00:08:36.020 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and the topic is, the the topic is working with bookstores and libraries. So when I show you these books, I recommend, hey? Ask for them at your local library. It actually benefits me as an author. They are available in ebook and print for free to anyone, through any library, and that is a great way to support it. And again, you know, I want to show you by example by saying, Yeah, go and go ahead and get my books from the library. We do get a special additional benefit as well. 47 00:08:36.020 --> 00:08:58.610 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Canadians I'll probably get to later on in the presentation. You can also request it, of course, through your local bookstore. I also will have a code that I'm going to be sharing with you, which is pro writing 24. Don't worry. It comes up again later in the slides, where you can actually get that particular book working with libraries and bookstores for 99 cents directly from me, instead of the regular 699 Us. Retail price. 48 00:08:58.610 --> 00:09:16.849 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But there really has never been a better time in the history of writing and publishing for us writers. We've never had more choice. We've never had more options than ever before, and one of the things I strongly encourage authors to do is to embrace all of your options, embrace as many of your options as possible, and that means 49 00:09:16.930 --> 00:09:33.160 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: a combination of you know, working with traditional publishers leveraging the tools available for self publishing, and and even the many different ways that you, as a storyteller, can leverage your own IP, that's a different talk, of course, but 50 00:09:33.160 --> 00:09:47.169 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the reality is is that digital publishing ebooks and and print on demand, which I did leverage 20 years ago and 2,004 they they made it easier for us than ever before to realize our dream of being a published author 51 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:52.210 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and true and proper self publishing. This is a really important element to it. 52 00:09:52.210 --> 00:10:15.669 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: True and proper self publishing does not equal low quality, not if the author approaches it with a serious business intent that actually treats their own writing with respect, leveraging the tools available to them, working collaboratively with editors and making it the best possible product they can put out, because that does stand for them, who they are and their amazing work that they want to put out into the world. 53 00:10:15.670 --> 00:10:32.120 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So that's another important thing with digital, because the only self and self publishing should really be self directed. You're in control of of hiring all of the people involved in making this happen the best way it can. But digital, of course. 54 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:47.120 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: even though it's phenomenal, and it's given us so many different options is really only the beginning, because a lot of people who get into Indie publishing. In particular, they recognize that ebooks are phenomenal. They're fantastic, so easy to get them out there and and easily distribute them around the world. 55 00:10:47.150 --> 00:10:53.449 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But it's only the start, because people still mostly most readers and most people don't read. 56 00:10:53.450 --> 00:11:18.910 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But most people who do read most of them have not yet ever read an ebook which seems ridiculously incredulous for us indie authors who are all about ebooks all the time, but the reality is is, there are more print books being read than ebooks in the world still, which is why to indie authors it looks like publishers aren't really paying attention to the reality. Their reality is different than our reality. Their reality is a dead tree world 57 00:11:18.910 --> 00:11:37.179 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: of printing and shipping books around the world. Let's get into a little bit about that. So I want to get into some stats. This comes from the Panorama Project, which is published through Portland State University in 2021. I actually have an interview with 2 of the doctors who led this study. And and there's a there'll be a link to it over 58 00:11:37.290 --> 00:12:03.969 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the end of the slides. But this is just sort of a look at where and how people discover books. So one in 3 people bought a book in a bookstore that they 1st found in a library. Now, whether that was a online bookstore or a brick and mortar bookstore, it doesn't matter, but they bought a book because they 1st found it in the library. This is evidence that libraries actually help you sell more books. They actually determined in this in this project that pirates 59 00:12:03.970 --> 00:12:26.900 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and libraries actually help sell more print books. So the good news. Good news for those of us who've found their books pirated, and good news for those of us who have our books in library. But again, recommendations from friends is still across most surveys I've seen over the last 1015 years. It's recommendations from trusted friends. It's reading books by your favorite author. And then, of course. 60 00:12:26.900 --> 00:12:40.299 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: recommendations from family. If you combine family and friends, you're suddenly gonna get, like, you know, over 30% of respondents are looking at that. And a lot of them are browsing online. But there's still a significant number of people who go to in person events 61 00:12:40.300 --> 00:12:47.819 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and browsing brick and mortar bookstores that's actually higher than online bookstores. So that physical reality is really important 62 00:12:49.450 --> 00:13:13.249 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: couple. Other things that are factor. Obviously, people buy by genre. They buy their favorite author. They buy based on reviews. Reviews is still significant. So it is very important to have those online reviews. But there's a whole bunch of other factors, you can see. And price is actually less than 1010%. When you actually look at the reality. And I think that's a lot of authors, indie authors particularly, are trained to price their books as low as possible. 63 00:13:13.310 --> 00:13:20.959 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: which may not be necessarily important for those retail sales through physical bookstores as well as library sales. 64 00:13:21.531 --> 00:13:33.729 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Okay, this is how they decide. Again, this is from book net, Canada here in Canada, and they do a lot of incredible research with the book industry. So a lot of people read the book description again 65 00:13:33.730 --> 00:13:39.860 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: critical for getting a high end. High value sales book description that lets people know what they're going to get. 66 00:13:39.860 --> 00:14:03.949 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Obviously the subject of the genre. The cover is very important as well who the author is. Reviews are still right up there. Does the library have it right? Or friends recommendations, etc. And then one of the smaller elements is actually comparing the price in multiple places, because unless the price is outrageous, if all these other things are in line. This is going to be a sale for them. 67 00:14:05.231 --> 00:14:17.979 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Again, with Booknet Canada's study, they found that 44% got recommendations from word of mouth. 32% were online retailers, 31% actually browsed in physical bookstores. 68 00:14:17.980 --> 00:14:39.899 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: 26% through libraries, social media, 24% bestseller lists, etc, etc. You see, you you see, some of the regular suspects, like goodreads, etc. Whether it was a nominee ironically, newspaper, newspaper radio, or TV tend to be a little bit smaller and even E-reading apps, which are are still growing in popularity. We're about 8%. 69 00:14:39.930 --> 00:14:58.140 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Now, the average Canadian book buyer. And again, I have. You have to extrapolate this to where you are in the world. But the typically 60% of book buyers are female, and that and that does transcend to other other areas, the income between 50,000 75,000, 70 00:14:58.140 --> 00:15:10.380 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the Canadian, which would actually probably be closer to 30,000 down to 60,000 American. Something like that resides in a city or urban area has a college degree, etc. 71 00:15:10.500 --> 00:15:31.659 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: employed as a professional and married, and 54% of them are buying paperbacks. 25% are buying hardcover, and 17% are buying ebook. So again, this is just a look at the Canadian Demographic, but it does extrapolate quite nicely. So you're looking at hardcover and paperback print books predominate 72 00:15:31.660 --> 00:15:57.209 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the purchases, which is what? Why, you're seeing some incredible growth in Tiktok, in Tiktok. When Colleen Hoover selling incredibly well, they're not holding up an ebook. They're not holding up a kindle or a cobal or a nook. They're holding up a physical copy of that book that they bought, and there's a reason for that. This is books engaged per month by gender. So you have women as the lighter blue, and men as the darker blue, so print books, audio books, and ebooks as well. 73 00:15:57.550 --> 00:16:23.260 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So you can kind of see print books are still dominant there, but there is truly nothing like walking into a bookstore and finding one or more of your books on the shelves. This was novelist Inc. Which takes place in September every year in St. Pete Beach, Florida, and Sarah and I walked into a great Haslam's bookstore. This was one of my books traditionally published, and this was a self indie published title. 74 00:16:23.260 --> 00:16:42.740 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So it was really kind of cool that we we both walked in. We were checking out the books, and we found our books on the bookstore shelves and had a great chat with the manager to find out why. Why were they carrying these books? Well, I mean, one of them is pretty obvious. I'll get to. But Sarah's book was carried because customers 75 00:16:42.890 --> 00:16:44.730 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: who had read her books 76 00:16:45.030 --> 00:16:53.369 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: online or bought them through whatever online bookstore had come in to the store and asked if they had copies of Sarah's books. 77 00:16:53.400 --> 00:16:56.900 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: They found that they were available through Ingram print on demand 78 00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:22.210 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: at a full trade discount. They ordered them in. They also have a used bookstore section, too, so that also impacted. They were seeing Sarah's books come in, used from other people who had bought them, and so they knew that they were popular. They weren't staying on the shelves long, so they had 2 reasons to want to bring in these books. Now, one of the reasons they brought in my book was because in my book Tomes of Terror. I actually mentioned their bookstore as a place that Jack Kerouac haunts, and of course, when I was there. 79 00:17:22.210 --> 00:17:34.630 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: that not that not that time, but the time before, when I was visiting I I actually had a bookseller tell me her experience of seeing Jack Kerouac's ghost. But that is a story for another day. 80 00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:49.050 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: The being self published does not mean that you can't get into bookstores and libraries, but it is hard. It's not necessarily easy to do. But it doesn't mean you can't. It doesn't you know. It's not a precursor to not getting into it. Now. 81 00:17:49.370 --> 00:18:12.849 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: having a publisher having a traditional publisher that has print distribution in warehouses may make getting bookstores, books into bookstores and libraries easier because they have sales reps. They have forces they have an entire hundreds year old industry dedicated to this, whereas ebooks are still, I mean, they're not even technically, really 20 years old since the ebook revolution started. 82 00:18:12.850 --> 00:18:23.719 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So it's a relatively new, a new platform. But these traditional publishers still have an easier way of getting your books into bookstores. 83 00:18:23.760 --> 00:18:33.609 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: but the challenge for them still is. There's still a lot of competition. So just because it's traditionally published doesn't mean a bookstore is going to carry it unless it's relevant to them. 84 00:18:33.970 --> 00:18:36.349 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But whatever however you publish. 85 00:18:36.580 --> 00:18:38.899 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: it's it's a relationship. 86 00:18:38.930 --> 00:18:47.430 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And relationships are something that you have to nurture. And they're things that you have to curate. And yeah, and you have to keep at it. And it's not easy. It's a lot of 87 00:18:47.450 --> 00:18:54.709 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: work, but that's 1 of the main ways that books get discovered and into bookstores 88 00:18:54.920 --> 00:19:19.850 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: a a quote I love to share where I'm riffing on Jfk. Is. Don't ask what your local library or bookstore can do for you. Ask what you can do for your local bookstore library, and that's really important to consider is, yes, it'd be nice if they carried your book, but they're a business. Why should they carry your book? What benefit to the bookstore is there? And so this comes back to being very clear. In what are your long and short term goals. Now 89 00:19:20.159 --> 00:19:30.049 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I have a good friend named James Owen, who, whose amazing speech and book of the same name called drawing out the dragons, says, never, ever sacrifice what you want the most 90 00:19:30.350 --> 00:19:33.059 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: for what you want the most at the that moment. 91 00:19:33.220 --> 00:20:00.029 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and and that means sometimes, if if what you want the most is to continue to write more books and get them out into the world, you know, sitting there and fixating on your on your online Amazon dashboard, or I'm running a Kickstarter right now on the Kickstarter. That you're currently running may not be the best thing for your long term goals. It feels good. Now it's you're spending all that time fixating on it, but not necessarily in the long term. I'm gonna give you an example of long term versus short term, so I often do a lot of in 92 00:20:00.030 --> 00:20:11.580 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: person events with both my traditional Books and my self published books. Again, I write a lot of ghost stories and and urban fantasy and stuff like that. So Barnaby Bones is my skeleton, who's often with me there. 93 00:20:11.770 --> 00:20:26.909 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But I remember I had my pop up tent outside a brewery one year, and I remember a customer coming in who wasn't a fan of horror ghost stories, or even urban fantasy. And this was a customer who 94 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:46.119 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: had recognized me because they were a fan of Science Fiction, and I did have a a thriller that was on my table, and they were considering that because they did enjoy thrillers. Well, I ended up. What I ended up doing was, I wasn't convinced he was going to enjoy my stuff. So instead of trying to talk him into buying that thriller. 95 00:20:46.250 --> 00:21:15.390 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: what I did is I had a I had a card. I had a code with a coupon code where he could download that for free from Kobo, because I I'd heard that he also read on Kobo. So I I gave him the card. I signed it and said, Here you can have this thriller for free, and see if my kind of writing is is stuff that you'd be interested in, because the only other book he had he recognized me. I'd edited a Science Fiction anthology. I didn't have any stories in it, but I was the editor. So that's why he recognized me and came over to talk to me. 96 00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:21.640 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So I gave him the thriller for free. He went into the brewery. He downloaded it to his Kobo app on his phone 97 00:21:21.990 --> 00:21:33.249 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and started reading it, you know, over the free Wi-fi in the brewery, and about 45 min later he came out, and he said, Hey, where's that book? I said, well, I already gave you a coffee. He said, no, no, I want to buy one I want. I want one signed. 98 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:58.940 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and so I signed it for him because he loved it. He thought it was great. He wanted to have a copy of it signed at home and continue reading it on his Kobo. Of course there's another example of of ebooks helping sell print books as well, because sometimes the print book is an artifact that they want to put on their shelves. This person actually ended up becoming a long time customer of mine has not bought my my true ghost story books, but has read 99 00:21:58.950 --> 00:22:18.450 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: my actually horror story collections, has read my urban fantasy series as well. And now, with every new release that I put out. So long as it's not a true ghost story book. They'll leave a a really positive review, an honest review on goodreads for every new book that comes out. 100 00:22:18.760 --> 00:22:31.750 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: This kind of comes down to a couple of factors. It's not trying to push the wrong book at the wrong time to the wrong person, but waiting and trying to push the right book at the right time 101 00:22:31.750 --> 00:22:56.750 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: to the right person. My friend James Owen is a picture of him from a panel at superstars writing seminars years ago. This is James. He has an eggs, Benedict story, and basically the story goes that he's sitting. He loves to travel a lot, and he's at a hotel, one of the conferences, and one of the things he loves to do when he goes to a conference is he loves to order the eggs, Benedict, because, you know. 102 00:22:56.750 --> 00:23:07.679 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: it's a relatively basic recipe, but he likes to see how different different people interpret it. I I love trying craft beer when I travel at different places. That's what I do, James. It's all about the eggs, Benedict. 103 00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:20.580 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Well, there's 1 day he's sitting this little restaurant that's attached to the hotel, and and he asks the waiter, he says, Well, how's your eggs, Benedict? And the waiter says, sir, I am so glad you asked. 104 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:33.269 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: This is the best eggs Benedict you will ever have in your life. Let me tell you a little bit about the eggs, Benedict. The eggs are actually sourced locally from a farm just a mile down the road. 105 00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:48.529 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: The ham as well, is also sourced from a different farm, less than a mile in the other direction. The recipe for the biscuits and for the Hollandaise sauce is passed down through 4 generations of the chef's family. 106 00:23:48.540 --> 00:23:56.299 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: They put it together with care and precision. This will be a life changing eggs, Benedict. You're going to love it. 107 00:23:56.360 --> 00:23:59.789 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Well, James says, of course I guess I'll have to have the eggs, Benedict. 108 00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:26.380 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and so the waiter says, excellent choice, sir, and he goes off to the kitchen, and he goes through those doors, and there's these are the swivel doors with the little round peepholes that you see in some restaurants, and he hears hoots and hollering, and people giving high fives and cheers, and then he looks out. He looks over, and he sees the people like looking and pointing at him, and waiting, and like thumbs up in the window like he's thinking, Whoa! This is. This is this is something. I'm glad I made that choice. 109 00:24:26.590 --> 00:24:45.849 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Eventually, when when the eggs Benedict arrives, the waiter comes and he bears the platter and puts it down in front of James and opens it up, and the smell is the 1st thing that hits him. He's like it smells magnificent. The waiter sets it down and says, Do you mind, sir, if I watch while you take your 1st bite. 110 00:24:46.060 --> 00:24:54.999 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and James thinks, well, this isn't like wine, like what the heck? I've never done this bad, and he said, Sure, of course, so he cuts into it. He tastes it. 111 00:24:55.050 --> 00:25:01.730 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and he says, Wow, this is really good, and he says, excellent, sir, excellent choice! 112 00:25:02.336 --> 00:25:07.209 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And then he goes back off into the kitchen, and there's more hoots and hollers and cheers, etc. 113 00:25:07.840 --> 00:25:12.479 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And James says he looked at the eggs. Benedict. It was a good eggs, Benedict. It was 114 00:25:12.810 --> 00:25:21.400 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: a pretty decent, a pretty, tasty, pretty yummy, wonderful recipe eggs, Benedict. But what really is it? Well, you've you've got your you've got your biscuits 115 00:25:21.510 --> 00:25:27.690 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: or or your English muffin. You've got your ham, you've got your poached eggs, you've got your Hollandaise sauce. 116 00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:31.819 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But what really made this and eggs? Benedict really really special 117 00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:33.470 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: was the presentation. 118 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:34.720 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and 119 00:25:35.610 --> 00:25:40.339 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the waiter could have said, when James said, How's your eggs, Benedict? He could say, Well. 120 00:25:40.720 --> 00:26:03.090 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: you know. Well, the chef the the chef did some eggs. Benedict in college. He did a little bit of eggs, Benedict, when he was in high school. His mom kind of thinks his eggs. Benedict is okay, kind of liked it, but it's not quite, maybe not quite ready, but and still working on the eggs, Benedict, or you know, I've I've created some eggs, Benedict, but I hasn't made won any awards or any of those things. 121 00:26:03.260 --> 00:26:08.699 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and and the lesson for us as writers, and and this is an important lesson is 122 00:26:10.050 --> 00:26:11.110 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: owning 123 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:13.770 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the work that you put into something 124 00:26:13.830 --> 00:26:28.299 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and being proud of it and and being okay with honestly selling that. And it's okay to be proud. It's okay to be confident in your writing in your own eggs, Benedict, because half 125 00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:30.020 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: of that 126 00:26:31.190 --> 00:26:38.509 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: consumption of the product is the expectation that you set, whether it's the cover, whether it's the whether it's the 127 00:26:38.740 --> 00:26:58.320 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the description. What are you going to be delivering? I'm going to be delivering an experience to you that's based on this incredible story, with these incredible things that have that happen. And again, when you are talking about your book, to bookstores, to libraries and to potential readers. 128 00:26:58.320 --> 00:27:22.049 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Just remember the eggs, Benedict story, and are you going to stand behind that and help them see how this could possibly be a positive, affirming experience for them. Or is it just another story, a really important aspect? When you're thinking about it, I I want to share a bit of a thing here, and I hope this is something that you can hear. This is a scene from Superman, the original superman with Christopher Reeve. 129 00:27:23.510 --> 00:27:24.410 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and 130 00:27:25.470 --> 00:27:30.479 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the confirmation or the the time change between. Here's Superman. 131 00:27:30.890 --> 00:27:34.010 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and we're going to do the the timer now that Superman leaves. 132 00:27:34.470 --> 00:27:39.480 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and you're going to see the transformation of Superman into Clark Kent. 133 00:27:39.770 --> 00:27:42.816 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And there's there's an interesting thing when it when it looks at 134 00:27:43.660 --> 00:27:44.500 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the 135 00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:51.069 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I'm hoping. And and Tom let me know if you guys can't 136 00:27:51.210 --> 00:27:52.969 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: can't hear the audio on this. 137 00:27:53.600 --> 00:27:57.390 Tom Wilde: I? We can't hear it, Mark, as far as I can tell. It's it's oh. 138 00:27:58.410 --> 00:28:02.169 Tom Wilde: you might need. I think there's a share. Audio button. 139 00:28:02.690 --> 00:28:03.930 Tom Wilde: Oh, no! There we go. 140 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:05.430 Tom Wilde: Orange. Yes. 141 00:28:05.430 --> 00:28:07.477 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Goodness sake, did you hear me knocking? 142 00:28:08.300 --> 00:28:11.590 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Lois! We did did have date tonight, remember. 143 00:28:11.790 --> 00:28:12.680 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Oh. 144 00:28:13.670 --> 00:28:14.420 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Lois. 145 00:28:14.830 --> 00:28:15.685 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: you haven't been 146 00:28:17.170 --> 00:28:20.643 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: oh, no, no? Well, certainly hope not. Well, let's 147 00:28:21.080 --> 00:28:22.430 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: push off, shall we? 148 00:28:22.910 --> 00:28:26.819 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I better get a coat? It might be kind of hold up. No, I mean. 149 00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:30.420 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I need a person I have to fix my air 150 00:28:31.310 --> 00:28:32.170 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: blush. 151 00:28:49.040 --> 00:28:49.950 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Lois. 152 00:28:50.950 --> 00:28:52.560 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: there's something I have to tell you. 153 00:28:52.790 --> 00:28:53.670 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I'm really 154 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.980 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I mean, I was at 1st really nervous about tonight. 155 00:29:02.229 --> 00:29:07.680 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But then I decided, well, darn it, I was going to show you the time of your life. That's quite nice. 156 00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:12.450 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I was thinking maybe we could go through 157 00:29:13.990 --> 00:29:18.579 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: alright. So that's just the scene I wanted you to see from Superman. 158 00:29:18.930 --> 00:29:37.829 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But this is this is this is often a misperception of of how could how could just glasses mean that this man is not this man or the newer superman? This man is not this man. Let's let's break the scene down just a little bit, because it's really important. And it comes back down to this eggs, Benedict. It's playing the role. 159 00:29:37.830 --> 00:29:55.009 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So, taking a look at the the brilliance of the acting done by Christopher Reeve. So he's got a slouch versus standing tall. Look at the way his shoulders are. Look at how his eye he's not looking her in the eye. He's looking down very modestly. Then, you see, when he becomes superman, even in his Clark. 160 00:29:55.110 --> 00:29:56.980 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: you know. He takes his glasses off. 161 00:29:57.040 --> 00:30:13.909 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: He stands straight, his voice is firm, he has direct eye contact, his chest is puffed out, his hand and arm. Position is also not weak. In about 25 seconds you see an incredible transformation, and that's a transformation that I think is important. 162 00:30:13.910 --> 00:30:33.429 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: This is one of the best books I read on this transformation by Todd Herman, who is who's a coach? Who helps people who are particularly in celebrities, who aren't used to being celebrities in the alter ego effect. I actually leverage this in many ways when I'm doing professional speaking gigs, especially in front of big groups of people. 163 00:30:33.470 --> 00:30:41.430 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and it's easier on a zoom screen because I can't see the audience. But when you get nervous on stage it's the alter ego effect that helps me 164 00:30:41.590 --> 00:30:49.749 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: reminds me what I'm there to do, what I'm there to deliver, and the importance of standing in the role that I'm there to play. 165 00:30:49.750 --> 00:31:14.680 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So one of the reasons. I show the picture at the very beginning of the slides, with a whole bunch of shots of me talking to famous authors, and and is is to to kind of set that up as reminding you why, I'm here talking, and and it kind of leads to that. I know I'm I'm I'm digressing a little bit from working with bookstores and libraries. But I think it's really so important to own that role, particularly when you're talking 166 00:31:14.710 --> 00:31:15.960 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: about your books 167 00:31:16.320 --> 00:31:41.940 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: to people who are going to influence whether or not they recommend it to patrons and libraries, or to customers that come into the bookstore. So the role of marketing in a writer's life is we had this misperception, of course. Well, can I just write and let my publisher and traditional publishing take care of it? Or if yourself or any publishing well, can't I just write and push those buttons and and digitally publish my book online, and let the retailers do all the work selling my book. 168 00:31:42.120 --> 00:32:07.249 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Well, I'm afraid not. That's not the way it is, unfortunately, and it really never fully was that way, although some wait time way back in traditional publishing. If you were a big enough name author, sure they would do the marketing for you. But this is really important, is understanding not only who you are and what you have to offer, and why that's good and great and fantastic is going to be an amazing experience. 169 00:32:07.430 --> 00:32:18.079 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: but understanding your target audience and understanding that you actually have a target audience, saying, my book is for everyone is the 1st misconception that we really need to get over. 170 00:32:18.600 --> 00:32:43.589 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So let's go to target audience and look at an example. So who is your target audience? So who would be interested and benefit from your book? It's a important question. Ask, what problem does your book solve them? What benefit does the book bring to them? So with one of my nonfiction books like an Author's Guide to working with bookstores and libraries. Of course it's obvious, because it's in the title, it's in the it's in that. But if your book is a novel. If it's a romance novel. 171 00:32:43.590 --> 00:33:04.940 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: if it's a science fiction novel, maybe maybe that it solves the problem for them, saying, I'm a huge fan of Philip K. Dick, and I want to read a new author who who makes me think the way Philip K. Dick does, or I love to go. You know Ringworld, from Larry Niven, and I want to know what other books I I should read. Not Larry Niven. I think I got that one wrong. But anyways. 172 00:33:04.940 --> 00:33:14.969 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: does it solve the problem of of a great read that they can get into and escape? Is it a book in the style of, or that would be comparable to another author that they love so much. 173 00:33:14.970 --> 00:33:38.960 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So that's where it becomes important is, what are those comp or comparable titles or comp authors they might have already read and enjoyed, and that your book will remind them of, or will give them, that next taste, experience, and what are the other things that this person is likely to enjoy or experience when they're not reading, when they're not involved specifically in reading. And then is there a specific or unique thing about your book 174 00:33:39.330 --> 00:33:57.090 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: that adds to this experience. Like, I took this, I took this realm of something you see in Star Wars, but I had this additional element to it, and and this could be an an extra thing, but also coming back to you and your author brand what is special or unique about you 175 00:33:57.090 --> 00:34:24.039 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: that adds to this particular story. So comp titles and comp authors. There's some strategies for how to find them right. So one of the easiest ways to find them from home is going to Amazon or other online retailers and looking at the category listings. And again, it could be, depend on where you live in the world, right here in in Canada. I might also be going to chapters indigo, or you may be going to Wh. Smith and the Uk. etc, etc. But here I go. I look at one of my books on Amazon. I can see the category it's in. 176 00:34:24.370 --> 00:34:36.250 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And then, when I look at the top sellers in those categories that gives me an idea of what the comp titles or comp authors might be for this particular urban fantasy. 177 00:34:37.420 --> 00:35:00.930 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: You can also look at the also bots. However, you've got to take those with a bit of a grain of salt, because if you look at this particular title in the also bots, you're gonna see, you know, a whole bunch of similar titles, a lot of titles by myself. But then you're also going to see some also bots that are just a little bit off, like the tale of Peter Rabbits. Potentially. This is somebody who reads urban fantasy, but then also 178 00:35:00.930 --> 00:35:09.940 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: purchased a book for a you know, child, or as a gift for for a family member, or a friend, or whatever. So so again, you also have to take the also bots with a bit of a grain of salt. 179 00:35:09.940 --> 00:35:26.429 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Jane Friedman actually says, here's a way to use comp chat, Gpt. To find comp titles. How do you find these? This is from an article she published in April of 2,023, that, I think, is great, she says. 1st tell Chat Gpt. To pick titles published in the past 3 years so relatively recent. 180 00:35:26.750 --> 00:35:39.010 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Tell it to choose mid level books, not the super famous ones. So not Stephen King and Jk. Rowling, and and James Patterson, and and the big name authors. But then, you know, narrow it down to your books and your genre. 181 00:35:39.460 --> 00:35:46.869 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and then choose the number of books. You know that you want to maybe see 10 to 20, and then specify a certain place or theme. 182 00:35:47.080 --> 00:36:15.020 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: or a topic that may be related to what you're writing. So here's an example she gave. Give me 10 comp titles for a historical romance. Novel set in England in the 18 hundreds only include books published in the last 3 years do not include any books that have appeared on best seller lists do not include non fiction books. And again, that's a way to get started on looking at some of those comp titles for you with a tool that's freely and readily available to all of us. 183 00:36:15.030 --> 00:36:22.980 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Here's just an example. And this was for a pitch to a traditional publisher. I'm a big fan of Venn diagrams, and one of the things I did was 184 00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:50.889 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: for haunted Hamilton. I said, Okay, Hamilton, Ontario is this is a book for people who love ghost stories because it's gonna be about. You know, it's gonna have ghost stories. It's gonna be for people who love the city of Hamilton anything to do with their hometown, and then, of course, people who love history because you can't tell a good ghost story without getting into history, and Hamilton being so close to the Us. Border the war of 1812 factors into that. So there's a lot of stories of Stony Creek battlefield, etc, where there are ghost stories related to historical 185 00:36:50.890 --> 00:37:03.660 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: events. So that's the Venn diagram of the people who may like the book when you put them together. The ideal reader. The the core reader, for this book is somebody for whom all these things is true. 186 00:37:03.820 --> 00:37:29.209 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: This does not mean it won't sell to those other people. But the work I do focusing on the ideal reader is gonna pay dividends far better than just people who like history, because if they like history but don't like ghosts. I'm not necessarily gonna sell that book to them. Here are just some examples of some of the comp titles, books. They may have read interests they may have had as well. And so that's the other thing I put together, and I and I visualize that before I write the pitch 187 00:37:29.506 --> 00:37:36.609 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: when I'm pitching a book. For example, this is active reader. This was a self published book, but when I'm talking to prospective readers. 188 00:37:36.610 --> 00:38:00.020 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: or you know, libraries or bookstores. This is what I let them know. So this is for people who love. It's a Mini collection of short stories about bookish places. So people who love creepy tales. That's 1. Demographic people who love short stories. They have to enjoy reading short stories and book nerds. If if they love anything, having to do with books. So if all 3 of those things are true, they're probably my ideal reader. And again. 189 00:38:00.020 --> 00:38:16.419 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: that could be fans of, you know, Stephen King. Short stories, short stories in general. You know the October country by Ray Bradbury. Maybe the TV shows like the twilight Zone, the librarians they love going to bookstores and libraries. So again, just an example of who this is. For 190 00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:19.569 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: now in ebook strategy. 191 00:38:20.040 --> 00:38:38.189 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And it's free, right? So you probably already know this, you can publish direct to most of the platforms. I'm not going to get into this in detail. You could use a distributor I tend to. I tend to for some reason, favor draft to digital. But there are other ones published. Drive Street, lib. As street lib. I should say, rather than street lit. 192 00:38:38.506 --> 00:39:04.910 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But even among digital publishing relationships are important. So don't forget to talk to them. If you're at a conference. If if they're doing a presentation for pro writing, or whatever. Listen to what they have to say. Listen to the podcasts, cobra, writing life as a podcast as well, communicate them, offer them content that might be fitting for their audience like, Hey, you have a blog. Can I talk about the research I did to get this book ready? I think it'd be interesting for some of your writers. You're providing them value in content as well. 193 00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:24.860 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But be inclusive in your approach. A lot of authors will think of, only they'll only think of Amazon. So include links to the various retailers on your website. Tag them when you're sharing your book links particularly to their spots. I tend to use books to read, which is free from draft to digital, and you can use it for traditional or indie published titles. 194 00:39:24.860 --> 00:39:36.620 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: This is an example. The book on the left Haunted Hospitals is traditionally published. There's a books to read, Link, and over on the right a self published book, a Canadian werewolf in New York, with the custom, Vanity URL, but also 195 00:39:36.690 --> 00:39:37.850 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: available 196 00:39:38.240 --> 00:40:01.510 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: through books to read. So you can find all the links there are bookstore partners with ebook and digital solutions. Kobo does distribute to, you know, partners physical retail partners around the world. You've got places like Indie bound or bookshop.org or indie bookstores as well, that are really, really friendly to independent bookstores and showing people that is important. 197 00:40:01.809 --> 00:40:29.910 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Maybe offer a free book for people who prove that they ordered your print book through a local indie bookstore, you know, maybe offer value or offer to go speak at a local independent bookstore day. They have them throughout the world. These are just some Logos from Canada as well as from the Us. Like. Maybe you can show some support for them indiebookstores.ca, is the one here in Canada print book strategy. The best way is again like, I said through a traditional publisher, because it removes a lot of the barriers. 198 00:40:30.197 --> 00:40:34.219 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Ideally, this is a publisher that doesn't use print on demand, but actually puts 199 00:40:34.220 --> 00:40:46.489 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: print runs in a warehouse warehouse is the book and has sales relationships with the various people. But even if you have a books publisher, you still need to establish and leverage connections, and remember that with print. 200 00:40:46.700 --> 00:41:15.610 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: the percentage that you keep as an author, whether it's traditionally published or self published is tiny because you're sharing it with so many people in the industry. So you're not going to make that 60 or 70% that you make off the ebook, you know, on my traditionally published books, I make a dollar or $2 every time a $25 book sells with my self published books, usually by the time I take into consideration all the discounts and the costs associated. I am still only making maybe 2 or $3 per book, so it's not as significant as the $3 I make on 201 00:41:15.610 --> 00:41:17.850 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: $5 ebook sale, for example. 202 00:41:18.213 --> 00:41:24.026 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Because there's more players involved, and everyone needs a piece of the pie for their business. 203 00:41:25.370 --> 00:41:33.160 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So ordering author copies through your local bookstore. So, for example, Dunder and a traditional publisher will give me 40% off for me ordering author copies. 204 00:41:33.490 --> 00:41:39.730 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But I've ordered through local indie bookstore, which I consider a pass through sale with a staff discount. 205 00:41:39.740 --> 00:41:59.880 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And so that usually means I can get the book for 30% from the bookstore. The bookstore's still making 10% on a book. They never had to unpack and put on the shelves. It's an in and out sale without even having to open the box. So I still end up supporting my local bookstore. It supports the publisher. I. I make my 30% margin on those author copies that I resell. 206 00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:12.399 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and I also. I I'll get a small royalty on that book next year, but it also then feeds the sales channels as well. So it's it's 1 of the ways that I like to support some of my local bookstores as well, even though I make 207 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:23.719 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: less on on that product. I've also worked with authors who personally sign books if ordered via a local bookstore. Hey? If you want a personally signed book here, look, order it from my local bookstore. 208 00:42:23.720 --> 00:42:37.660 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: They'll order it in. I'll come in and sign it, and they'll ship it because they have the shipping and the facilities to order it in from Ingram. Whatever sign get you to sign it and ship it off. They ship books all the time. 209 00:42:37.720 --> 00:42:44.799 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: If it's available through a distributor, it can be traditionally published can include Ingram Pod. They may order it from there. 210 00:42:44.990 --> 00:42:56.289 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and traditional titles are fully returnable. So there's less risk to the bookstore in that particular case, and bookstores aren't likely to carry a non returnable book unless you have a really solid relationship with them. 211 00:42:56.370 --> 00:43:20.259 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: A couple of things as well as I have actually offered from local bookstores. Bring in my non returnable print on demand stock from Ingram, and I'll buy up any stock that doesn't sell after the event is over. So you're not stuck with copies again, instead of having to pack up the boxes and get send them away for full returns, which the labor alone means. They're not really making their money back on on the on that return. 212 00:43:21.066 --> 00:43:37.879 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Credit! But at least they get a sale, and and it's less work for them to sell it at a discount in that particular case. But again, I've only been able to do this with bookstores where I have a good relationship, and then consignment options. Again, I've done consignment with both trad and any published titles where you bring in the book. 213 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:54.169 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and and then they they basically sell it on consignment. But be generous. There's some some examples of things I've done is created shirts to to for the store to give away with my book on the cover, and I love to haunt, you know, perfect books in in Ottawa. Where? Where's your favorite bookish? Haunt 214 00:43:54.440 --> 00:44:01.939 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: again with my book on the cover, etc, and and did that to help them advertise themselves while advertising my book. 215 00:44:02.240 --> 00:44:20.593 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I've done events where I you know, with one of my ghost story books at a local independent bookstore and a chain bookstore. I had different members of the local ghostbusters. Crew come in as well, because it was great for the kids a great attraction, and of course they were trying to ghost. Bust my book so the experimenting I've done 216 00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:43.760 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: attractions at epic books in my in my neighborhood in Hamilton, when I was there, where I'd go in and offer to do free ghost stories around Halloween to bring people into the store. I've even collaborated with local ghost walk groups where they come, and at the end of my book launch, you get a free 10 min ghost walk. So it advertised to their business. It gave some people something free to do, and it brought in over a hundred people to my book launch. 217 00:44:44.020 --> 00:45:05.859 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: This is a 1 sheet which you can find on my website, Mark lossy.ca slash authors, bookstores, libraries. This is a 1 sheet that you may want to provide to bookstores or to libraries. This is one from Rachel Amplet, and you can download this off that website to sort of see, this is very similar to a sales sheet that a sales rep may provide to a bookstore or library. 218 00:45:06.220 --> 00:45:11.889 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and don't forget the the local aspect, defining yourself as a big fish in a small pool. 219 00:45:12.151 --> 00:45:36.749 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: You know where you lived, where you grew up, where you were born, where you went to school where you're a community member. It can be the content of your book. I don't live in New York, but I've set my books. My main character lives in the Algonquin Hotel in New York. So again I've gone in. I've chatted with the staff members there. I've provided them free copies of my books just in as a way of talking it up and defining myself as a big fish in in that small pool 220 00:45:36.750 --> 00:45:37.979 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: within Manhattan. 221 00:45:38.010 --> 00:45:55.769 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But don't forget that bookstores are businesses. They have costs, and they operate on low margin, and they they have to stock books that sell in order for them to pay for all of their costs and libraries are similar. They don't need to sell, but they need to circulate to customers, otherwise they're wasting space, and they're not useful. 222 00:45:55.770 --> 00:46:23.300 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: so be mindful of the time in your approach. So walking in to try to sell them a book during Christmas or during the lunch hour, run lunch hour rush. If it's a downtown store, the weekends, if it's it's out out in the suburbs, it's not the ideal time to try to pitch your book, and just remember, does this book help them achieve the goal of selling? Who is gonna buy this book? Will your book sell to their customers at base. And don't forget those 1st impressions. So, thinking back to the eggs, Benedict. 223 00:46:23.300 --> 00:46:51.800 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: but also, do you have a relationship with them? Are you already a regular customer. Are you familiar with it? Do you already support them? And do you know what the comp titles are saying? Well, this would appeal to people who've read these books. Those are important aspects. I have some podcast episodes with various bookstores, librarians as well. Just to give you a background. These are just some examples as well. Author insights from librarians, and even the customer survey that we saw project panorama. 224 00:46:52.170 --> 00:47:01.559 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: You can get resources over at this link here, which will be in the slides. And again, if you want authors, bookstores, and libraries, there's a pro writing aid. 225 00:47:01.790 --> 00:47:14.460 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: 24 code. If you use the pay hip link from this books to read Link as well, and you can get it for 99 cents again. This is just my contact information. But I'm going to stop sharing. So now 226 00:47:14.500 --> 00:47:20.790 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I can shut up for a minute and maybe see any of the questions you guys might have, and maybe maybe just take a breath. 227 00:47:21.973 --> 00:47:26.509 Tom Wilde: Well, that was great, fantastic. Thank you so much. 228 00:47:26.540 --> 00:47:34.339 Tom Wilde: I personally learned so much. I'm you know. I'm not a published author, but I just to hear the stories and hear how you go about this 229 00:47:34.580 --> 00:47:43.214 Tom Wilde: to me. It's just this is built on like relationships. And you know, doing the work going out there talking to people right? 230 00:47:43.640 --> 00:47:50.169 Tom Wilde: so I I think everybody can do this and and I guess a lot of people, you know 231 00:47:50.540 --> 00:48:08.820 Tom Wilde: don't do enough of it. What one question I have before we go into the other questions. Well, I was just interested in, you know, when you talk about you know, knowing your bookstores, your local bookstores, and I'm assuming you have more success working with independent your local independent stores rather than the chains, because they don't have so much freedom. 232 00:48:10.890 --> 00:48:12.390 Tom Wilde: You're on mute, Mark. 233 00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:19.489 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I muted so I could clear my throat. James Don actually changed that in both Wh. Smith and Barnes and Noble in the Us. 234 00:48:19.520 --> 00:48:31.220 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Giving the bookstores a lot more autonomy. But typically with chain bookstores they don't have any autonomy. So even if they like you, they can't do anything about it. That's changed even here in Canada, in some of the chapters, indigos. 235 00:48:31.240 --> 00:48:53.719 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But typically with an independent bookstore like an Indie author, they're a little bit more independent minded. Yeah, and they're willing to. I mean, they make up their own rules. They don't have to check with head office. Yeah. So you may have less resistance in the local indie. You may have more resistance because local indie bookstores are not potentially as as digitally friendly, and so they. They may see you as a threat as an Indie author. So 236 00:48:53.780 --> 00:48:58.020 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: that's why starting with a relationship is always the most most important thing. 237 00:48:58.230 --> 00:49:07.209 Tom Wilde: Got it. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I've just had a question. So while I'm doing, I'm just gonna post some links in the chat, you'll find the link. 238 00:49:07.210 --> 00:49:08.660 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Thank you for doing that. 239 00:49:08.660 --> 00:49:19.659 Tom Wilde: I don't think I've got your offer one yet, Mark. If you post that to, we'll put marks off in the hub. So if you don't find in the chat today, we can put that in the hub. 240 00:49:19.660 --> 00:49:22.432 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah, let me let me just quickly 241 00:49:22.870 --> 00:49:25.730 Tom Wilde: You can add it into the the chat directly. 242 00:49:25.730 --> 00:49:32.689 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah, I'll add it into the chat here. I'm just going to find it. And then, while I'm looking for that, if you want to hit me with one of the questions that came up. 243 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:50.180 Tom Wilde: Yeah, okay, so a a couple of them really relate to kind of that. It's that having that if you like, that sales mentality. So one person's asked, they said, I'm not a salesperson. Any ideas for how to practice, to get your book into someone's mind. 244 00:49:51.540 --> 00:49:53.429 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah. 245 00:49:54.654 --> 00:49:59.792 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: sorry. Just I'll finish this link. There you go now. So here's the thing. 246 00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:03.719 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: you're not a salesperson. You're not a marketing expert. None of us are. 247 00:50:03.970 --> 00:50:05.819 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But you're you're a storyteller. 248 00:50:05.880 --> 00:50:25.610 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So that's where I go back again. I I know I harped on the eggs, Benedict and and owning that is, you're a storyteller. You know this story better than anyone on the planet. You're probably passionate about it, and it's okay to be passionate, and to share your enthusiasm and your passion for this product. So if you own it as a storyteller. 249 00:50:25.610 --> 00:50:49.419 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: as opposed to thinking of it as marketing that could remove some of the resistance that's saying, oh, I'm not an extrovert. I can't do this. No, you probably can, because, come on, you're the best person who knows this story better than anyone. And I I would, you know, potentially practicing with some friends, you know, talking about it, and that can help you work your way up to the confidence, and it is scary to to go and pitch. 250 00:50:49.420 --> 00:50:53.969 Tom Wilde: It. It is scary. But I could add to me here, which is, you know, there's there's there's 251 00:50:54.250 --> 00:51:00.840 Tom Wilde: the feeling you get when you meet someone who listens to your story and gets what you're trying to tell them 252 00:51:00.890 --> 00:51:15.290 Tom Wilde: and asks questions, yeah? And and just think about it. And this is coming from kind of multi kind of traditional sales tactics, if you like. It's just have a conversation. That's what you're trying to do. You're just trying to have a conversation, find out more about the person. 253 00:51:15.390 --> 00:51:17.270 Tom Wilde: Tell that story like Mark says I hear. 254 00:51:17.270 --> 00:51:24.229 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Yeah. But and if it turns out, for example, if somebody comes up and said, What would you like to read? Which I often ask when people come up to my table. 255 00:51:24.548 --> 00:51:46.489 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Well, I like to read romance. I'm like, well, I don't have anything for you, but I have. But here's the thing. But I have a friend who writes incredible thriller romance or romance. Romantic thrillers! Do you like romantic thrillers? Oh, my God, okay, go out, go look up so and so. So. One of the other things I do when I'm at bookstores is I try to figure out what's popular in in other genres, and if people ask about it, I I give them what they're looking for. 256 00:51:46.490 --> 00:51:59.140 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: because they may not buy a book from me, but they may remember that I was helpful, and then somebody else down the line says, Oh, I have a friend who likes ghost stories. I was talking to this guy named Mark Lexi, you should check him out. It could be a again long term sale, not a short sale. 257 00:51:59.680 --> 00:52:14.430 Tom Wilde: Yeah, yeah, absolutely all about kind of relationships, helping each other, listening. It's great. And hopefully, I think. Tp, would you mentioned the same thing. So how do I address the fear of promoting my book, that selling aspect where my resistance is high? So hopefully those tips have helped. 258 00:52:14.430 --> 00:52:15.520 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I hope so. Yeah. 259 00:52:15.520 --> 00:52:21.549 Tom Wilde: There, Philip Phillip has asked. When you go to a bookstore, who do you ask for same with library? Who do you ask for. 260 00:52:22.293 --> 00:52:38.149 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: I I've just done this recently, because I'm I'm arranging events for October for a new release is I? I ask for either the the manager, or whoever's in charge of events. If I'm wanting to do an event at the store, or the manager who who's ever in charge of stocking local authors 261 00:52:38.150 --> 00:53:01.849 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and say, Hi! I'm a local author, whatever. And and again, if you've been a fan, if you've been a patron of the library for a long time, or whatever. So I've I've been coming to your store for 20 years, or whatever. I've just released a new book again. Booksellers are there because they love books, and they love talking to people about books. And you're a local author, that that alone they may be excited just to talk to you 262 00:53:02.170 --> 00:53:18.939 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: so so that that alone and and you can probably tell by the reaction. Now, if they're really busy and their hands are full, and they're running by one of the things I did so when I got a hold of yesterday, when I called one of the stores. This was a chain store, said, Hi! Can I speak to a manager, or whoever whoever's in charge of local authors? 263 00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:35.869 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And he said, Hi, that's that's me. I'm the manager, I said, hey? My name is Mark Leslie. I'm a local author. Do you have time to talk right now? Can I like a couple of minutes? And if she didn't. That gave her an out right and and so that's usually that's usually how I how I broach it. 264 00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:39.790 Tom Wilde: It also gives you the opportunity to set a time that works for her right. 265 00:53:39.790 --> 00:53:46.850 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: So yeah, it's like, well, if you come back after lunch, or whatever when the next shift starts, and then I'm not on the floor myself, or whatever right. 266 00:53:46.850 --> 00:54:02.799 Tom Wilde: And that's the beginning of a relationship. That's the beginning of you talking to them. Getting to know. Yeah, Elizabeth asks. And I don't know if this is it's I don't think this applies in the Uk. But Elizabeth asks if you need a library of Congress number to have a book in a library. I don't know if that's your. 267 00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:21.890 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: You know. Some people say that, but you don't. You can get your books in the library. Ingram Spark will get your book available to library wholesale or distributors draft to digital can get your book into like a half dozen different library wholesalers for ebooks as well, and I've never had an issue with somebody saying, I can't order this because it's not library of Congress. Now, I'm sure it helps 268 00:54:22.050 --> 00:54:28.340 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: to get a number, and but it's never prohibited me from getting my books in the libraries. Yeah, right? 269 00:54:28.520 --> 00:54:33.660 Tom Wilde: Okay, a couple of questions about advice for authors of middle grade novels. Any. 270 00:54:33.991 --> 00:54:41.940 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Okay, so you have a huge benefit with middle grade novels, because even more people are reading physical books in that in that realm. 271 00:54:41.940 --> 00:55:06.099 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: and with middle grade you can sometimes get adults who want to read them as well as children, or sometimes I remember reading to to my little one when they were little as well, because it was a fun experience, even though they could read themselves. It was just a fun experience for us together. This is where you also have the opportunity of schools and school librarians as well, by going in and offering to do talks, libraries, even, you know, chain book stores like chapters had long had. 272 00:55:06.120 --> 00:55:30.179 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: you know, story time, and you could offer to come in and and read some stories because you're providing value. You're freeing up potentially a staff member who have to do that reading as well. So again, with middle Grade, you may, you may have an even better opportunity for, for? Because again you can, you can in that, and you can talk to I again. There's going to be some fun stories and and morals from your stale. You don't have to talk about the story. You can talk about the 273 00:55:30.500 --> 00:55:36.959 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: what the characters did and what they learned, or what you learned when you were writing this book, and that could be interesting for educators in general. 274 00:55:38.060 --> 00:55:41.450 Tom Wilde: Excellent thanks, mark great answer. Patrick. 275 00:55:41.570 --> 00:55:45.499 Tom Wilde: very specific question. Mark. Have you had books made in Braille. 276 00:55:46.540 --> 00:56:08.020 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: No, no, I would love that. I have. I've done a large print with a few books, but it would be interesting to have now. Often, as I understand it, here in Canada, the Cnib is when when somebody requests a book from the Cnib, once some of the funding that they get allows them to make braille books out of. 277 00:56:08.380 --> 00:56:17.360 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: so I wouldn't know how to go about it myself. I would. I would contact. For example, here in Canada, Cnib, and say, Hey, I'm interested in making a braille book. 278 00:56:17.510 --> 00:56:21.749 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: How does this happen? Are there publishers that specialize in it? How does this work? 279 00:56:21.850 --> 00:56:26.280 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: But I think it would be great if you're interested in it, because one of the things that's so important. 280 00:56:26.370 --> 00:56:42.249 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: his accessibility and just a quick anecdote is I I published wide for the Wind, which is a book I'm publishing your book wide for authors years ago. It's about 400 pages. It's a pretty thick. It's like a, you know, a spider killer kind of doorstop kind of a book, and 281 00:56:42.250 --> 00:56:58.730 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: with my own I I hire professional narrators for my fiction, but with my nonfiction I feel I should read them myself, but I haven't had the time. It would take me about 80 h to record that book, because I can't just do it off the cuff. I have to have 80 h, which I don't have, because I wear many hats and do lots of 282 00:56:58.770 --> 00:57:07.820 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: things. I had somebody reach out to me who said I'd love to get this in audio, and I said, I I can't. It's going to take me forever. I'm so sorry. 283 00:57:07.940 --> 00:57:16.850 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And then they said, Well, I'm I'm blind. That's the only way I can consume it, because it's not available in a format. I can read. And I said, Are you okay with AI narration? 284 00:57:17.390 --> 00:57:22.370 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: He said, Yeah, I just, I just want access. I just want to be able to read this book. 285 00:57:22.410 --> 00:57:26.009 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And I said, Give me a couple hours. And I went to Google playbooks, partner Center. 286 00:57:26.430 --> 00:57:34.270 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: And within 2 HI had a book, and I said, Here, thanks for asking. And I'm so sorry it wasn't accessible to you. 287 00:57:34.660 --> 00:57:39.819 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Wow, so again, accessibility is so important. Yeah. 288 00:57:39.990 --> 00:57:41.949 Tom Wilde: Absolutely couldn't agree more. 289 00:57:42.150 --> 00:58:01.110 Tom Wilde: Okay. So we're nearly out of questions. Anyone else has got a question in now. It's your last call, pop. One in the QA. Box. I've got one last one, Lucia, who has qualified the question by saying that English and reserved, who says, Do you 1st pop in in person, or 1st send them an email, introducing yourself and saying that you'd like to pop in so. 290 00:58:01.110 --> 00:58:11.959 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: It depends. So I mean, I I'd like to have visited the bookstore in person. So in a couple of cases, I've gone because it's a 6 h drive away because I'm trying to set up a bit of a book tour. 291 00:58:12.120 --> 00:58:36.499 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: been there in person, talked to the staff, made a purchase usually buy something off the recommended shelf from a staff member, because the it was horror in this particular case. And so when I called the manager, I said, Hey, I was in your store a couple of months ago when I was in town. I talked to, you know, Susie, at the desk. She was a big horror fan. She recommended this title. I loved it. It's great! I have a horror title come out in October. I'd love to talk to you about maybe setting up an event when I'm in town in November. 292 00:58:36.520 --> 00:58:49.280 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: You know that kind of thing. So that, or or in an email saying, you know I visited your store, whatever, or I'm a regular I love this about it again. Start off with. Here's the other thing. Start off your conversation with. 293 00:58:49.620 --> 00:58:51.290 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Here's why you're awesome. 294 00:58:51.360 --> 00:59:11.219 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Here's why I'm awesome. Here's why my book is awesome, right? So start off with letting them know that you that you love what they do or or whatever right. Maybe maybe you've been to an event. I remember reaching out to a local library saying, I just moved to town, and I was at event, 6 months ago with the local author, a big interview. I thought it was a fantastic event. You guys did a great job. 295 00:59:11.510 --> 00:59:13.450 Mark Leslie Lefebvre: Can I tell you a little bit about my books? 296 00:59:14.650 --> 00:59:17.750 Tom Wilde: There we go. It's the wheel of awesomeness. Yes. 297 00:59:17.870 --> 00:59:31.510 Tom Wilde: Mark, that's brilliant. I your presentation was absolutely on point, and your timing is impeccable, too. We are back. Well, one or 2 min before the hour is up. We've answered everybody's questions. 298 00:59:31.510 --> 01:00:00.960 Tom Wilde: We've had great interaction, lots of comments in chat. I cannot thank you enough for great session today. I really appreciate you generously giving us some of your time. I know how busy you are. Look forward to meeting at catching up with you later in the year. But for now, Big, thank you. From everyone at prowriting aid. Thank you. To everybody who's joined today. These events wouldn't be, you know, wouldn't happen without the support we get from all of you. Don't forget you can find all the replays on the Hub. You can find all of Mark's slides. You can find the details of the promotion 299 01:00:01.160 --> 01:00:06.200 Tom Wilde: and have a great rest of the day. We will see you in the next session. Everybody 300 01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:07.419 Tom Wilde: have a good one.