WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.260 --> 00:00:08.300 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Welcome everyone welcome. 2 00:00:09.420 --> 00:00:20.800 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: I apologize for the delay, but we are here, and we are ready. If you can see and hear me drop your location in the chat. So I know that everything is working appropriately. 3 00:00:21.250 --> 00:00:24.019 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Welcome back for another session. 4 00:00:26.320 --> 00:00:30.480 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Hello! I see. Repeat names already. Welcome back everyone. 5 00:00:32.170 --> 00:00:35.840 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Hello! From the Netherlands, California. 6 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:38.330 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Toronto. 7 00:00:39.150 --> 00:00:48.730 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Welcome, welcome! I'm going to drop the links in the chat for you all now, and I will drop those intermittently throughout our session today with Ryan Douglas. 8 00:00:49.350 --> 00:00:52.100 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: It looks like you can see and hear me. Just fine 9 00:00:52.220 --> 00:01:10.930 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: welcome. We're just going to quickly go through the intro info, and then we will get right into Ryan's presentation. So your replays for today we are uploading them as they process on the hub. You can find the hub link in the chat. You can find all of your replays, your 10 00:01:11.300 --> 00:01:25.549 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: session resources, everything there that you need within the schedule. If you click the dropdown you'll see the replays pop up there. They will also be posted to our community page on the event, recording space by the end of the week 11 00:01:26.050 --> 00:01:36.541 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: for joining us. At this event, you do have automatic access to our early black Friday sale. So you will get an email with that information. 12 00:01:37.690 --> 00:01:54.890 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: in a couple of weeks, but if you do not receive anything by November 16, th please give us a shout, and we'll be happy to help. That is our largest sale of the year. So if you're thinking of upgrading, it's a great time to do so because you can get 50% off yearly and lifetime plans for premium and premium pro. 13 00:01:55.150 --> 00:02:13.609 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: If you would like to keep the horror writing conversation going, we'd love to have you over in our free online writers. Community joining is simple. You just log in with your prowritingaid account information, and then you can join all of the spaces there, such as the event recording space, the live event chat, and we do have some fun upcoming things 14 00:02:13.880 --> 00:02:25.809 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: ahead. If you would be so kind as to share your feedback on how you like the event, we would really appreciate it. You can use the type form link that's in the chat, and I'll drop it again shortly. 15 00:02:26.090 --> 00:02:34.580 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: But if you can tell us what you enjoyed, what you think we could improve upon, and what you'd like to see at a future event that would really help us out with our event planning strategies. 16 00:02:35.140 --> 00:02:59.949 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: We have a brand new writing challenge coming up from November 4th through the 8.th It's free to join. It's called 5 K. In 5 days this will be held within our community platform, and folks that are participating will be writing 5,000 words or more. Between November 4, th through the 8th we'll have live write-ins with members of the Pro writing aid staff who are also participating in the challenge. 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They do just come to the host and panelists, and all of the offers that we're talking about, and special links from our speaker will also be on the hub for you. 20 00:03:38.500 --> 00:04:02.819 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: So I'm so excited to introduce our speaker. Ryan Douglas Ryan Douglas is a Ya. Horror author from Atlanta, Georgia. His debut novel, The Taking of Jake Livingston, was a number 6. New York Times. Bestseller in Ala. Rainbow book list, pick a tour.com. Young Adult Science Fiction, fantasy and horror. Best book pick and a Black Caucus, American Library Association. Best of the best book list. Pick. 21 00:04:03.060 --> 00:04:04.720 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: His short stories 22 00:04:04.770 --> 00:04:27.490 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: appear in the Ya. Horror Anthologies, Night of the Living Queers, and all these sunken souls, and his work on media representation can be found in Huffpost, Lgbtq. Nation, and the National Council of Teachers of English. Among others, he received his BA. In theater from Hofstra University, and is currently based between Los Angeles and Atlanta. Welcome, Ryan, we're so happy to have you here. 23 00:04:28.410 --> 00:04:30.709 Ryan Douglass: Thank you so much for having me happy to be here. 24 00:04:31.130 --> 00:04:33.230 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: I will go ahead and let you take over. 25 00:04:33.750 --> 00:04:34.490 Ryan Douglass: Okay. 26 00:04:35.010 --> 00:04:38.588 Ryan Douglass: So Hi, everyone, I'm Ryan Douglas. 27 00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:45.239 Ryan Douglass: I just have a quick little intro presentation. And then I'm gonna leave. 28 00:04:49.820 --> 00:04:53.010 Ryan Douglass: It's kind of open for the discussion. 29 00:04:53.190 --> 00:04:56.140 Ryan Douglass: So I'm just gonna just a minute ago. See? 30 00:04:57.460 --> 00:04:59.500 Ryan Douglass: Okay. 31 00:05:01.700 --> 00:05:02.880 Ryan Douglass: so 32 00:05:03.280 --> 00:05:06.950 Ryan Douglass: hopefully, everybody can see this here 33 00:05:07.526 --> 00:05:10.579 Ryan Douglass: I'm just gonna cover the basics of 34 00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:19.770 Ryan Douglass: pushing boundaries and ya horror, and just pretty much outline the differences between ya and adult. So 35 00:05:20.130 --> 00:05:21.480 Ryan Douglass: I've had 36 00:05:21.700 --> 00:05:29.440 Ryan Douglass: most of my career in ya, I'm still, you know, working on my 1st adult work. But 37 00:05:30.270 --> 00:05:42.940 Ryan Douglass: I sold my book back in 2018. It took about 3 years to finally get shelves. And since then I participated in several anthologies. And I'm currently working on another. 38 00:05:42.970 --> 00:05:50.081 Ryan Douglass: Why, a horror that's set to release in 2026. So I've been in the business about almost 10 years. 39 00:05:50.860 --> 00:05:53.310 Ryan Douglass: and I'm just gonna basically 40 00:05:54.560 --> 00:06:01.019 Ryan Douglass: cover a few things that are important to know for getting into the space, and just like 41 00:06:01.630 --> 00:06:02.570 Ryan Douglass: making 42 00:06:03.880 --> 00:06:06.154 Ryan Douglass: I guess an important enough 43 00:06:06.840 --> 00:06:10.580 Ryan Douglass: distinction for yourself to get recognition within it. So 44 00:06:12.466 --> 00:06:13.840 Ryan Douglass: let's see. 45 00:06:16.250 --> 00:06:17.320 Ryan Douglass: here we go. 46 00:06:18.320 --> 00:06:31.449 Ryan Douglass: Okay, so what are the goals of horror in general? So I love horror because you don't have to necessarily deal with the huge allegories that 47 00:06:31.760 --> 00:06:35.869 Ryan Douglass: science fiction and fantasy deal with in terms of like big government and 48 00:06:35.960 --> 00:06:37.270 Ryan Douglass: society. 49 00:06:37.420 --> 00:06:46.594 Ryan Douglass: You don't have to, you can, but I like horror because the goals are primarily to scare, shock and disturb. So you can have these really personal stakes and 50 00:06:47.570 --> 00:06:53.999 Ryan Douglass: get into, like the intimate traumas and fears of your main characters. 51 00:06:54.328 --> 00:07:10.139 Ryan Douglass: to create it, to create a tense atmosphere for the reader, and to speak to primal fears and evoke dialogues about the concept of fear, and to challenge the reader's comfort zone. So this is always what we want to see when we pick up a horror novel just as a baseline by a adult, all of it. 52 00:07:11.810 --> 00:07:15.672 Ryan Douglass: So what are the goals of ya fiction? Because this is an important 53 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:20.100 Ryan Douglass: measure to 54 00:07:22.060 --> 00:07:42.119 Ryan Douglass: match? Also, when you're writing ya horror! I just had a brain fart. So the goals of ya fiction are to represent the experiences of teen characters authentically, to explore concepts like self discovery coming of age, and the transition to adulthood, and to bring an emotional urgency to storytelling in a way that adult books don't always do 55 00:07:42.495 --> 00:07:47.709 Ryan Douglass: in addition to imparting guidance to young readers. Now, the last one, in my opinion, is 56 00:07:47.740 --> 00:08:01.030 Ryan Douglass: the most optional. I think that there are frequent debates about what the responsibility really is when you're writing teen fiction, you know. Is it to hold their hands through things? Is it to, you know? 57 00:08:01.490 --> 00:08:13.539 Ryan Douglass: Give them a message. I think that's also a thing that we talk about like in the larger scheme of literature like is literature there to have a message? Is it there to have questions. But I think that 58 00:08:13.930 --> 00:08:16.130 Ryan Douglass: because it is YA 59 00:08:16.350 --> 00:08:24.652 Ryan Douglass: going in just thinking like, I'm going to write this just to scare people just kind of like. How you write adult is probably the wrong idea. 60 00:08:25.230 --> 00:08:31.000 Ryan Douglass: just because, you know, it's so entrenched in coming of age and and and self discovery, and and just like 61 00:08:31.150 --> 00:08:32.809 Ryan Douglass: growing up. So 62 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:38.090 Ryan Douglass: we're going to get into. Why? Why, ahor is important. 63 00:08:38.190 --> 00:08:51.280 Ryan Douglass: White horror is an important vehicle to explore trauma in teen lives, and can be used to create allegories between monstrosities, fantastical and supernatural, and things that go bump in the night and social realities. 64 00:08:51.310 --> 00:09:12.890 Ryan Douglass: So because current Ya is filled with fluffy stories. Ya, horror is at a unique position to target hard realities unflinchingly and stand out in the market. We are having a pretty big moment in ya horror right now. The past few years we've seen a lot of horror books sell in a more mainstream way. So I think that people are welcoming that in and and feeling like they're 65 00:09:12.940 --> 00:09:19.470 Ryan Douglass: ready because we have this big ya fantasy thing. I say, from like 2016 to 66 00:09:20.740 --> 00:09:24.557 Ryan Douglass: it's kinda it's dying down. It's been dying down for the past few years. 67 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.500 Ryan Douglass: And it seems like horror is something that a lot of people are getting into 68 00:09:28.938 --> 00:09:33.119 Ryan Douglass: so horror and ya come together to capture human experience 69 00:09:33.760 --> 00:09:37.389 Ryan Douglass: with a unique immediacy not found in other genres. 70 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:47.109 Ryan Douglass: I think what they both have in common is that immediacy? You know. You want to feel the visceral emotions of the team character when you're reading. Ya, it's not like 71 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:54.519 Ryan Douglass: super logical. It's very much like, how do I feel right now? It's very true consciousness. It gets into your like 72 00:09:54.640 --> 00:10:18.590 Ryan Douglass: immediate struggles in the way that what I was talking about horror. Earlier. How it kind of is like more visceral than the Science fiction and the and the fantasy, and that it's very close to home. It kind of it kind of reduces focus from that big like scope. Usually, you know, cosmic horror, different thing, but usually it reduces reduces scale and and gets into. You know the personal stakes? 73 00:10:21.780 --> 00:10:26.369 Ryan Douglass: Okay. So how does Yahorr differ from adult horror? 74 00:10:26.900 --> 00:10:29.379 Ryan Douglass: So because of the ages of the character 75 00:10:29.903 --> 00:10:35.360 Ryan Douglass: there are inherent limits involved with how far you can go in terms of gore violence and sexuality. 76 00:10:35.520 --> 00:10:37.616 Ryan Douglass: And I think that 77 00:10:38.620 --> 00:10:51.819 Ryan Douglass: how far you do go depends on your editor. So, for example, my editor allowed me to get away with certain things that oftentimes a lot of readers I mean, a lot of writers are not able to get away with, and 78 00:10:51.970 --> 00:11:00.899 Ryan Douglass: I think part of it was the timing that the book came out. In part of it was the fact that I was a debut author, and you know we were trying to get that like real 79 00:11:01.917 --> 00:11:04.539 Ryan Douglass: readership and and come out strong. 80 00:11:04.945 --> 00:11:21.429 Ryan Douglass: But it really depends on the publisher depends on your editor, so why horror is going to be more concerned with making use of the horror to outline common ya themes and impart message to the reader like we talked about before, and ya horror is more of a mainstream market in Ya, whereas adult horror tends to release as more niche 81 00:11:23.990 --> 00:11:29.089 Ryan Douglass: and getting into the main topic of discussion. What does it mean to push boundaries in ya? 82 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:30.300 Ryan Douglass: So 83 00:11:30.910 --> 00:11:43.440 Ryan Douglass: readers of horror even teen readers expect for horror to go further than other genres in removing so-called safe filters. In your average book, readers are expecting to experience the thrill of being disturbed. 84 00:11:44.340 --> 00:11:47.220 Ryan Douglass: Pushing boundaries drives an important conversation 85 00:11:47.230 --> 00:12:05.949 Ryan Douglass: about authors, responsibilities, and representing life as is rather than shying away from realities and pushing boundaries, does not mean gratuitously invading the reader's safe space triggering readers or causing unnecessary harm. So I want to 0 in kind of on that 3rd point there, because I think that's 86 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:08.797 Ryan Douglass: most important distinction. 87 00:12:09.670 --> 00:12:16.489 Ryan Douglass: a lot of Ya. Readers can be pretty sensitive about that in particular, you know. So 88 00:12:17.420 --> 00:12:20.587 Ryan Douglass: trigger warnings are very important to include. 89 00:12:22.460 --> 00:12:27.039 Ryan Douglass: I think that in adult books a lot of the Times 90 00:12:27.270 --> 00:12:29.140 Ryan Douglass: with horror like 91 00:12:29.520 --> 00:12:38.419 Ryan Douglass: it's kind of like you're reading it. And you're kind of expecting this kind of like right on like balls to the wall. Kind of 92 00:12:40.860 --> 00:12:43.509 Ryan Douglass: no holds barred experience and 93 00:12:44.610 --> 00:12:47.430 Ryan Douglass: hold on. It says my connection is unstable, but I think it's a 94 00:12:53.990 --> 00:13:05.619 Ryan Douglass: And why? A you just have to be like, really cognizant of. I I think that personally, I think that we infantilize teams a little bit too much today, and I think that they can handle more than what we say that they can handle. But 95 00:13:05.750 --> 00:13:08.479 Ryan Douglass: I'm more so. Coming from the perspective of like 96 00:13:09.380 --> 00:13:11.500 Ryan Douglass: hitting the market, I guess, like 97 00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:29.860 Ryan Douglass: doing it in a way that is going to be the most productive. Because if I could just write books that were, you know completely everything that was in my head. I would do that, too. But, there are certain limitations regarding like being gratuitous about what you're writing that you kind of want to bring to like 98 00:13:30.250 --> 00:13:36.020 Ryan Douglass: this? Concept of like, what is the point of this? You know. How is helpful? How is this nutritional 99 00:13:38.690 --> 00:13:45.689 Ryan Douglass: which brings us into how do we reduce harm in ya, while honoring the goals of the horror genre? 100 00:13:46.370 --> 00:14:02.889 Ryan Douglass: So this, to me, is about mastering the art of pulling back. What does a scene need to be functional and to get its point across? Pull it back when you feel it going to a gratuitous place, and especially especially in scenes regarding sexual violence. 101 00:14:03.404 --> 00:14:17.600 Ryan Douglass: My perception of violence in general is that it is more normalized in Ya, due to the popularity of books like the hunger games. So the environment is more welcoming to violence and gore than it is to sexual content. 102 00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:34.200 Ryan Douglass: And I was talking about this piece here before one of my favorite parts about reading adult horror books is seeing how far authors decide to go in portraying violence. But for the teen market. The point is more so, disrupting the readers comfort zone without doing anything that would result in 103 00:14:34.350 --> 00:14:40.120 Ryan Douglass: lasting trauma for the reader, because, as I said before, teens are still 104 00:14:40.640 --> 00:14:46.270 Ryan Douglass: trying to figure things out, and we don't want to. We want to keep our readership rather than scar them. 105 00:14:51.040 --> 00:14:51.520 Ryan Douglass: okay. 106 00:14:56.950 --> 00:14:57.929 Ryan Douglass: sorry one. Sec. 107 00:15:01.255 --> 00:15:01.870 Ryan Douglass: Okay. 108 00:15:01.930 --> 00:15:11.520 Ryan Douglass: So what creates scares in ya? And this is obviously up to everybody like, if you're I'm working on a slasher right now. And 109 00:15:12.270 --> 00:15:14.480 Ryan Douglass: some of this is also just like 110 00:15:15.710 --> 00:15:16.920 Ryan Douglass: book to book. 111 00:15:17.070 --> 00:15:23.709 Ryan Douglass: But typically, you want to focus on tension and atmosphere. These are your primary targets 112 00:15:24.270 --> 00:15:31.764 Ryan Douglass: create the environment by playing to all 5 senses. I think this is just a general writing note that has to do with 113 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:35.500 Ryan Douglass: being very sensory about what you're 114 00:15:35.650 --> 00:15:37.570 Ryan Douglass: writing and and bringing 115 00:15:37.760 --> 00:15:42.369 Ryan Douglass: the the reader into an immersive experience. So 116 00:15:46.870 --> 00:15:51.749 Ryan Douglass: really, inside of your body, this is especially good for body horror. But I 117 00:15:51.830 --> 00:16:17.053 Ryan Douglass: create an environment that plays to all 5 senses. What does the character here is there like a grandfather clock tickering? Are there whispers and chitters? Are there crickets, is it? You know? Is there noise in the background? What does it taste like? What do they smell? What do they feel on their skin. I think that's a really good one, like, how does it feel on your skin to be in a situation where you're feeling a lot of dread or an intense sense of 118 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:18.490 Ryan Douglass: fear. 119 00:16:20.330 --> 00:16:33.330 Ryan Douglass: So just setting. That is important, because I think that's what you find a lot. We see a lot of haunted house stories in Ya. Nowadays we see a lot of just like rising tension rising dread, which is a good note in general, but I think that 120 00:16:33.400 --> 00:16:41.893 Ryan Douglass: it kind of brings it into that ya space more because you're not relying on core. And the, you know, jump scares and stuff like that. 121 00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:48.838 Ryan Douglass: so you want to tie in themes like I said before, tie in themes related to identity and coming into oneself. 122 00:16:49.280 --> 00:16:54.150 Ryan Douglass: in Jake Livingston, for example, a lot of the fear comes from 123 00:16:54.440 --> 00:17:12.770 Ryan Douglass: projections, and the projections come from Jake's waking reality. So it's very much tied to the social reality of his life rather than just being something that is there to scare. And that's what I mean about like adding nutrition to things and making it so that it's not just like, I'm just gonna traumatize you and scare you. And 124 00:17:13.040 --> 00:17:14.810 Ryan Douglass: on one hand, I think that 125 00:17:15.040 --> 00:17:16.930 Ryan Douglass: giving teams the 126 00:17:18.040 --> 00:17:22.409 Ryan Douglass: the freedom to read things that are like that. 127 00:17:22.910 --> 00:17:34.139 Ryan Douglass: visceral and unlimited is something that I would like to advocate for more. I don't think that we are necessarily there just yet, so we still have to get to a place where we're getting 128 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:36.370 Ryan Douglass: we're getting those freedoms. 129 00:17:36.410 --> 00:17:38.320 Ryan Douglass: Currently, I don't think that we're there. 130 00:17:39.830 --> 00:17:45.809 Ryan Douglass: and avoid horror that relies too much on shock value, grossing people out or making people cringe. 131 00:17:49.900 --> 00:17:52.989 Ryan Douglass: okay, so I have a few questions. I think this is my. 132 00:17:53.690 --> 00:17:56.139 Ryan Douglass: this might be my last slide. 133 00:17:57.580 --> 00:18:09.350 Ryan Douglass: so navigating challenges that come with, why, horror writing. So my questions are, how far can you go? How much do we trust our audience? What do teams need? And what did you need a team? So 134 00:18:09.430 --> 00:18:17.470 Ryan Douglass: the reason I put the last 2 there is because we often see a lot of conversations about writing the books that we had when we were younger in Ya. 135 00:18:17.650 --> 00:18:18.650 Ryan Douglass: And 136 00:18:19.290 --> 00:18:20.690 Ryan Douglass: I think that. 137 00:18:21.070 --> 00:18:22.370 Ryan Douglass: you know 138 00:18:22.540 --> 00:18:45.510 Ryan Douglass: yes, like we want to write the books that we didn't have when we were younger, and we always want to start with writing books for our former selves, because we're writing ourselves into the shelves, especially if you are a writer of color. If you're marginalized in some way, you want to put yourself in the story in the way that horror which is historically a genre that has not had a lot of diversity, but is having a lot more now 139 00:18:45.690 --> 00:18:47.280 Ryan Douglass: needs, you know. 140 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:55.260 Ryan Douglass: So. But the distinction between what do teens need now, and what did we need as a teen is very important, in my opinion, for ya. 141 00:18:55.280 --> 00:18:56.310 Ryan Douglass: because 142 00:18:57.890 --> 00:19:02.310 Ryan Douglass: I was a teenager, maybe like 12 years ago. 143 00:19:02.570 --> 00:19:03.225 Ryan Douglass: and 144 00:19:04.090 --> 00:19:16.540 Ryan Douglass: Some of the atmosphere and the landscape and the political realities that I was facing at that time are not what teens are facing today. I think that 2020 marked a shift for the 145 00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:19.791 Ryan Douglass: just like changes in realities. And 146 00:19:20.340 --> 00:19:29.660 Ryan Douglass: it's important to really create that separation. In my opinion when writing ya, between what teams actually need now versus what we needed as a team. 147 00:19:31.080 --> 00:19:36.739 Ryan Douglass: going back up to how much do we trust our audience. I think this is up to each person like. 148 00:19:37.630 --> 00:19:39.493 Ryan Douglass: you know, for me. 149 00:19:40.050 --> 00:19:53.169 Ryan Douglass: When I'm writing books for teenagers, I don't necessarily feel a need to dumb things down. I don't necessarily feel a need to pull back unless I feel like it's going to be like super traumatizing like I like. I was talking about before. 150 00:19:53.642 --> 00:20:14.999 Ryan Douglass: I choose to trust my audience enough to know that they're able to handle the themes that I bring in. Jake Livingston deals with some really heavy things like mental health trauma, suicidal ideation. Specifically, it does deal with a little sexual assault, domestic violence like there's a lot of stuff in there. 151 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:23.679 Ryan Douglass: and I think that it is up to the author to decide how much you're going to trust your reader with these complicated themes, and 152 00:20:23.800 --> 00:20:39.109 Ryan Douglass: at every step of the way, and we can talk about this more in the Q. And a. If we want to get more into like how these things go through the pipeline but at every step of the process, if you want to fight for something, you should be prepared to fight for it. Regarding 153 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:47.409 Ryan Douglass: putting in realities that are realities that you need. You feel the need as a writer to speak to. And when you get to that point where you're, you know. 154 00:20:47.610 --> 00:21:00.643 Ryan Douglass: pushing things to agents and trying to like negotiate things. There's a lot of people that are gonna come. If you are shooting for traditional publishing, there's a lot of people that come in and say, Well, you can't do this, and you should do it this way. You have to be really ready to 155 00:21:00.980 --> 00:21:07.969 Ryan Douglass: fight for what you want to see happen in the book? Especially with horror. Where there's like 156 00:21:08.310 --> 00:21:09.789 Ryan Douglass: just a lot of 157 00:21:10.670 --> 00:21:11.983 Ryan Douglass: ways to 158 00:21:13.690 --> 00:21:17.170 Ryan Douglass: I guess I don't want to say go wrong, but there are it it? 159 00:21:17.950 --> 00:21:31.470 Ryan Douglass: There's a reason, I guess, why a lot of ya is very benign. It's just not scary. It's just not because there's a lot of people who are not honoring the conventions that I talked about earlier about horror itself and are more leaning into Ya. 160 00:21:31.560 --> 00:21:45.220 Ryan Douglass: and I think it is up to the authors when we come into this space to actually say, Well, this is what I want to do like I want to do horror. I want it to be scary. I want it to have conventions that are true to horror, and I want to trust my audience. And I think a lot of the more 161 00:21:46.870 --> 00:21:50.199 Ryan Douglass: risky horror. Writers are currently having that debate 162 00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:53.280 Ryan Douglass: with our teams or the people that we're pitching to. 163 00:21:53.310 --> 00:21:53.985 Ryan Douglass: And 164 00:21:54.890 --> 00:21:59.979 Ryan Douglass: yeah, I think it. I think that horror writers in general on the front lines of this movement 165 00:22:00.010 --> 00:22:09.340 Ryan Douglass: have to be more adamant about pushing boundaries. So that's why I came. That's why I came up with this topic, because I think it's an important one to discuss and to 166 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:10.620 Ryan Douglass: kind of 167 00:22:12.250 --> 00:22:14.720 Ryan Douglass: push the dial forward in terms of 168 00:22:14.830 --> 00:22:19.839 Ryan Douglass: what we are allowed to say and do, and how? Why? A horror is kind of 169 00:22:20.060 --> 00:22:23.440 Ryan Douglass: mainstreamed alongside adult horror in the sense that 170 00:22:23.610 --> 00:22:32.712 Ryan Douglass: it doesn't have to be so ya like it can lean more into horror. So that is my opinion. I think that that is why my book. 171 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:42.030 Ryan Douglass: took off in a way that that it did, because it was more interested in saying, You know, what can we do rather than what has been done before. 172 00:22:42.590 --> 00:22:47.368 Ryan Douglass: So that's my general. Take on pushing boundaries. I think it's very important. And 173 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:51.999 Ryan Douglass: this is my last slide. So 174 00:22:57.250 --> 00:22:59.149 Ryan Douglass: If anyone wants to 175 00:22:59.980 --> 00:23:04.810 Ryan Douglass: ask any questions or have a discussion. I'm open to that at this point. 176 00:23:07.180 --> 00:23:08.510 Ryan Douglass: Okay, I see. 177 00:23:10.620 --> 00:23:14.369 Ryan Douglass: I see 2 questions. So I guess I can go ahead and answer those 178 00:23:16.826 --> 00:23:17.840 Ryan Douglass: let's see. 179 00:23:23.243 --> 00:23:27.019 Ryan Douglass: I don't know if okay. So I'm just gonna read this. 180 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:28.660 Ryan Douglass: I guess 181 00:23:28.900 --> 00:23:31.230 Ryan Douglass: I thought it would appear. But I don't think it would. 182 00:23:31.770 --> 00:23:34.389 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Hi, Ryan, do you want me to read the questions for you? 183 00:23:37.060 --> 00:23:38.020 Ryan Douglass: sure. 184 00:23:38.280 --> 00:23:38.600 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Okay. 185 00:23:38.600 --> 00:23:40.580 Ryan Douglass: I thought it was gonna appear, but it didn't. 186 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:52.250 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: That's okay. So Chandra is asking Ryan. I'm very interested to know your writing process for your ya novel, and how many rejections you got before your manuscript got published. 187 00:23:54.700 --> 00:23:56.489 Ryan Douglass: Oh, that's so. 188 00:23:58.450 --> 00:24:03.040 Ryan Douglass: So with the taking of Jake Livingston. That one was the one that 189 00:24:03.180 --> 00:24:07.020 Ryan Douglass: happen to move pretty quickly through the pipeline 190 00:24:08.730 --> 00:24:24.169 Ryan Douglass: because I'd already gotten rejected for 3 other books, so that one when I wrote that one it only got like, I would say, like maybe 10 rejections from agents, but I've gotten like hundreds, over 300 rejections from agents for other projects. 191 00:24:25.370 --> 00:24:27.969 Ryan Douglass: The process for it so 192 00:24:28.360 --> 00:24:35.537 Ryan Douglass: spoken about this before. In other talks. But I started writing it when 193 00:24:36.830 --> 00:24:41.150 Ryan Douglass: I was in a creative writing class like sophomore year of college, and 194 00:24:41.490 --> 00:24:50.435 Ryan Douglass: I wrote a little short story about like someone's body being invaded. I'd never written horror like that before, but I wrote a little short about 195 00:24:51.330 --> 00:24:54.879 Ryan Douglass: someone being stalked by a ghost and having their body snatched 196 00:24:55.010 --> 00:25:00.990 Ryan Douglass: and someone wrote on it like, We want to see you should do this as a whole book. This would be a great book. So 197 00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:03.853 Ryan Douglass: I just build it out from there. 198 00:25:05.080 --> 00:25:15.066 Ryan Douglass: In terms of the process. It was like a process of trying to pay homage to a lot of horror that I read growing up and just kind of like honoring my experience with 199 00:25:15.910 --> 00:25:23.399 Ryan Douglass: things that scared me. So it became very personal. And I think that's probably why the market responded to it, because it was very close to home for me. 200 00:25:30.830 --> 00:25:34.029 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: It looks like brandy has a follow up to that question. 201 00:25:34.495 --> 00:25:40.710 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: She says. What do you think was the difference between your previous rejected material, and your one that made the sale. 202 00:25:44.390 --> 00:25:45.810 Ryan Douglass: So 203 00:25:46.760 --> 00:25:49.329 Ryan Douglass: I definitely think that 204 00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:55.341 Ryan Douglass: the turning point was finding my style just finding my unique way of storytelling 205 00:25:56.510 --> 00:25:58.610 Ryan Douglass: beforehand. I was 206 00:25:58.830 --> 00:26:12.023 Ryan Douglass: doing too much mimicry. I was just trying to be somebody that I wasn't. I was trying to mimic like. So I grew up on Rick Riordan and I read Harry Potter, and I read like 207 00:26:12.790 --> 00:26:13.920 Ryan Douglass: what's it called? 208 00:26:15.903 --> 00:26:21.640 Ryan Douglass: A lot of Neil Schisterman's work. So I was kind of trying to be like them. And I think that's just 209 00:26:21.860 --> 00:26:31.829 Ryan Douglass: to me that is indicative of a lack of maturity as a writer like when you're trying to imitate rather than just like be your own person with it. 210 00:26:32.382 --> 00:26:40.449 Ryan Douglass: So once I started to really honor my own voice and my unique style, I feel like that's how Jake Livingston came to be. And 211 00:26:42.860 --> 00:26:56.759 Ryan Douglass: yeah, it felt close to home. You could really feel my beating heart in it. And I think that's important, like you have to start writing things that feel really close to you, and don't be afraid, you know, to to go there because people really need that honesty and authenticity. 212 00:27:00.910 --> 00:27:14.610 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Emily asks, How do you know how much is too much in terms of things like Gore and ya? Would it be more accepted to have kills or attacks off page and describe the aftermath. How much do you tone the description? Flow. 213 00:27:14.740 --> 00:27:16.740 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: or sorry description down. 214 00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:18.240 Ryan Douglass: Hmm! 215 00:27:21.630 --> 00:27:30.720 Ryan Douglass: I don't. I don't think that kill should happen off of the page personally. That's just my opinion. I mean they can, and they can't. 216 00:27:32.430 --> 00:27:33.490 Ryan Douglass: So 217 00:27:35.990 --> 00:27:44.229 Ryan Douglass: I think that I I definitely think it's up to each person like, I don't think that it's a it's a broad brush. I think. Like I said earlier. You know. 218 00:27:47.090 --> 00:27:48.280 Ryan Douglass: we 219 00:27:49.560 --> 00:27:57.180 Ryan Douglass: want it to be where it's creepy and disturbing without being something that makes people 220 00:27:58.650 --> 00:28:05.389 Ryan Douglass: like. Put the book down, I guess. And it's hard to gauge that like, it's hard to explain. Kind of 221 00:28:05.570 --> 00:28:14.820 Ryan Douglass: what the limitations are there without like track, like invading someone's personal autonomy when it comes to the Gore. But I think with stuff like that, too. 222 00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:16.080 Ryan Douglass: you know. 223 00:28:16.850 --> 00:28:35.830 Ryan Douglass: the best thing to do, in my opinion, is to just write whatever you want and feel like. Think about yourself as a teenager. Think about your like young people in your life. Think about how you feel about like having teen characters die on the page. If that is something that you want to portray, portray that, because 224 00:28:35.890 --> 00:28:46.830 Ryan Douglass: at the end of the day it's probably better to go too far, because you're sending it to a lot of people who are going to have opinions anyway, and they're going to be able to tell you, you know. Okay, this is too far. This is that because I'm not 225 00:28:46.860 --> 00:28:58.810 Ryan Douglass: an agent, I'm not an editor. I tend to do things. I tend to push things further as as a start, and then pull back later. So that's my general advice. Because it's really hard to 226 00:29:00.050 --> 00:29:02.319 Ryan Douglass: like. It's really hard to know. Sometimes. 227 00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:10.760 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Sorry I was muted. 228 00:29:10.760 --> 00:29:11.240 Ryan Douglass: I. 229 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:17.769 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Carlton asks, how much does race play a part in pushing boundaries, in choice of character and in discussions of race. 230 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:35.759 Ryan Douglass: So that's an interesting question, because I often feel like there are certain experiences that black youths have that might well, not in general, but 231 00:29:36.280 --> 00:29:48.004 Ryan Douglass: depending on where you come from. That might be a little bit rougher around the edges than the experience that more privileged characters from more privileged economic backgrounds or racial backgrounds will have. 232 00:29:49.290 --> 00:29:54.750 Ryan Douglass: How much does race play a part in pushing boundaries and choice of character? 233 00:29:58.054 --> 00:29:59.716 Ryan Douglass: I'm not sure. 234 00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:07.616 Ryan Douglass: I'm not sure I understand that piece of the question. 235 00:30:08.210 --> 00:30:10.799 Ryan Douglass: in discussions of race, though it it 236 00:30:11.220 --> 00:30:14.060 Ryan Douglass: it's definitely like I said. I think 237 00:30:14.250 --> 00:30:22.539 Ryan Douglass: certain people from certain backgrounds tend to have more rough experiences. And I think that's how you can kind of get away with. It is by saying that 238 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:31.660 Ryan Douglass: this is what happens. You know, everybody who deals with something has a right to write about what they're dealing with. If teams are dealing with these things like. 239 00:30:32.470 --> 00:30:34.432 Ryan Douglass: you know, you can represent it. 240 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:42.470 Ryan Douglass: you have to. We have to. As authors. I think we have an responsibility to tell the truth. So yeah, like. 241 00:30:42.600 --> 00:30:53.344 Ryan Douglass: if I see something in my life that I'm like, you know, this is this is something that represented me having to grow up too early. I'm going to put it down, even if it's something that isn't necessarily 242 00:30:54.340 --> 00:30:56.820 Ryan Douglass: welcomed readily. 243 00:30:57.100 --> 00:31:01.300 Ryan Douglass: So just be prepared to like advocate for 244 00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.139 Ryan Douglass: the experiences that you have. 245 00:31:06.300 --> 00:31:13.540 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Gary asks if a main character is a teen, but most others are adults. Does that automatically make it? Ya. 246 00:31:15.696 --> 00:31:22.600 Ryan Douglass: No, I I've read books with teen characters that are adult. I think it really depends on 247 00:31:22.870 --> 00:31:45.000 Ryan Douglass: a variety of things. I think the storytelling method is important as well. Like, I was speaking about the emotional immediacy and the urgency of the storytelling earlier. That's something that we find in ya, a lot. The themes are the biggest thing I would say. Like, is your story about the teen character coming of age? Is it a story of self discovery, and like 248 00:31:45.970 --> 00:31:50.890 Ryan Douglass: realizing your place in the world. I think that is a big 249 00:31:51.120 --> 00:31:52.530 Ryan Douglass: YA thing. 250 00:31:52.560 --> 00:32:02.189 Ryan Douglass: So it's very entrenched in the story. It's not just that the command character is a teen. I think ya has a lot of conventions that 251 00:32:02.770 --> 00:32:07.449 Ryan Douglass: separate it from adults. So I think you can have an adult book with a teen character. 252 00:32:08.510 --> 00:32:13.440 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: In terms of characters. Could you maybe touch on for folks here who 253 00:32:13.500 --> 00:32:31.710 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: would like to write ya? But they're not sure how to make their teen characters feel authentic, as they are not themselves teenagers. What kind of advice would you give pertaining to that? How do you make your teen characters feel authentic, even though, like you said, it's been 12 years or so since you were yourself a teenager. 254 00:32:35.340 --> 00:32:40.130 Ryan Douglass: You know, I think for me it's this kind of like combining, of 255 00:32:40.260 --> 00:32:51.430 Ryan Douglass: remembering how I was at a teen as a teen, and the stuff that I was thinking about in the way that I spoke to my friends and just being observant, you know. I mean, we can observe how 256 00:32:51.690 --> 00:32:56.660 Ryan Douglass: teams are a Gen. Z. Gen, a act without. 257 00:32:57.050 --> 00:33:04.550 Ryan Douglass: because they're all around us all the time, you know, online and and life and and media, you know we can kind of observe that and the 258 00:33:06.850 --> 00:33:15.630 Ryan Douglass: just just be aware and and and be observant in a way, that is because I think that a lot of people are writing books that have really like stilted 259 00:33:15.830 --> 00:33:19.469 Ryan Douglass: dialogue. And and it doesn't feel like 260 00:33:19.570 --> 00:33:25.599 Ryan Douglass: the way that teens speak, because the market actually is now aiming books at people who are way older. 261 00:33:25.650 --> 00:33:26.870 Ryan Douglass: Like. 262 00:33:27.320 --> 00:33:39.375 Ryan Douglass: and that I think it's because people in publishing like you have a lot of older people buying these books. And they're kind of catering to their own sensibilities rather than thinking like this is for teens of today. So 263 00:33:39.970 --> 00:33:53.750 Ryan Douglass: I definitely think like, really, just tune into the way that people think, tune into the problems that teams are going through today. Try to capture in a way that kind of allows yourself to get out of the way and to just like 264 00:33:53.900 --> 00:34:01.010 Ryan Douglass: give them center stage like, don't try to force yourself too much into it. I think that's when it becomes a little self, indulgent and like 265 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:02.020 Ryan Douglass: weird. 266 00:34:02.510 --> 00:34:03.190 Ryan Douglass: So. 267 00:34:04.350 --> 00:34:12.409 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Karen asks, what other writers would you recommend for us to read in this genre, to assist in our development as a horror writer for Ya. 268 00:34:13.965 --> 00:34:16.350 Ryan Douglass: let's see, let's see, let's see. 269 00:34:16.489 --> 00:34:18.679 Ryan Douglass: I would say, 270 00:34:24.040 --> 00:34:25.120 Ryan Douglass: one second 271 00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:35.680 Ryan Douglass: I don't know why I'm like, okay, so I would say. 272 00:34:35.790 --> 00:34:38.834 Ryan Douglass: Andrew Joseph White is good to read. 273 00:34:42.020 --> 00:34:44.940 Ryan Douglass: let me think. Let me think. Let me think. Let me think. 274 00:34:45.636 --> 00:34:52.139 Ryan Douglass: So I actually it's it's hard because I don't have. I don't read like too much. 275 00:34:52.864 --> 00:34:55.639 Ryan Douglass: Tiffany Jackson is good. 276 00:34:59.590 --> 00:35:00.610 Ryan Douglass: Hmm! 277 00:35:02.090 --> 00:35:04.139 Ryan Douglass: So for me, I'm gonna be honest like 278 00:35:04.520 --> 00:35:17.359 Ryan Douglass: I'll read ya, that's just kind of like straight up, ya, and then I'll read like adult horror books, and then I'll kind of go from there like I don't actually read a lot of Ya horror. And the reason I don't is because 279 00:35:17.580 --> 00:35:21.350 Ryan Douglass: what you're reading, in my opinion, really does affect 280 00:35:22.100 --> 00:35:48.582 Ryan Douglass: the the way that you write and like I said, I do find a lot of ya horror, which is why I'm doing this talk. I do find a lot of ya horror like, overly benign and overly watered down. So it kind of makes me feel like I can't do things and you can. You can push boundaries. You can do things, but I don't read too much. Ya horror. For that reason I can give you adult names like I really like Nick Cutter as a writer. 281 00:35:49.660 --> 00:35:51.120 Ryan Douglass: I 282 00:35:53.690 --> 00:35:55.010 Ryan Douglass: hmm! 283 00:36:00.490 --> 00:36:06.345 Ryan Douglass: There's a book called Sparrow Rock, by Nate Kenyon. That's a really good book, if you like. 284 00:36:08.798 --> 00:36:18.979 Ryan Douglass: it's like it's not ya, but it's younger characters, or I think the maker is like 20. So it kind of gives that like sweet spot between like being too like 285 00:36:19.050 --> 00:36:24.829 Ryan Douglass: teen, and like just too watered down, and not being like super 286 00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:29.419 Ryan Douglass: adult. So Nate Kenyon is good. 287 00:36:35.400 --> 00:36:51.619 Ryan Douglass: I think, Neil Schisterman, he's not necessarily like a straight up horror writer, but he has a lot of books like scythe, for example, very dark thematically. So if you can go through, he has a lot of books, so you can go through his catalog and just like find the ones that are 288 00:36:52.510 --> 00:36:58.159 Ryan Douglass: darker. I think he does a really good job of hitting that sweet spot without going too far, so 289 00:36:58.850 --> 00:37:00.869 Ryan Douglass: I think there was a few names. 290 00:37:03.050 --> 00:37:20.230 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: In terms of marketing for a Ya. Audience. How would you say that platforms like Tiktok have affected your marketing strategy and your book sales with the taking of Jake Livingston and other works that you've done. 291 00:37:22.247 --> 00:37:31.779 Ryan Douglass: It's funny because I actually don't have a tiktok account. And the one time I was on Tiktok it was on someone else's account during my promo cycle and the 292 00:37:32.180 --> 00:37:35.650 Ryan Douglass: the real I don't know. It's not a real. I guess it's a tick tock 293 00:37:36.121 --> 00:37:41.918 Ryan Douglass: the Tiktok went viral. So that was my 1st experience, and probably my only experience with it. 294 00:37:42.510 --> 00:37:50.300 Ryan Douglass: I know that there are a lot of authors who use that, and who are very effective in using that like. I have personally known 295 00:37:50.560 --> 00:37:58.740 Ryan Douglass: New York Times bestselling authors who got there just by making Tiktoks and and promoting their books that way. Personally. 296 00:37:59.150 --> 00:38:10.820 Ryan Douglass: for me, Tiktok is like where the light does not touch. I just don't have a good relationship with that. I'm not a big social media person. So I don't have personally a relationship with using that channel 297 00:38:11.610 --> 00:38:22.468 Ryan Douglass: promo. But I know that it can be effective. So if you're comfortable with it. I think definitely it's it's an avenue. There's a lot of avenues, though, if you're not comfortable with it, you don't have to do it. I totally reject it. There are a lot of 298 00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:32.899 Ryan Douglass: request for me to make little Tiktoks, and do like. There's the ones where you like. Have your book, and you drop it, and the other author catches it, and they're like all the cute stuff, and I just could not. 299 00:38:32.970 --> 00:38:38.059 Ryan Douglass: It just wasn't for me. So it works. But you know it's not for everyone. 300 00:38:39.030 --> 00:38:44.190 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Well, that's interesting. So you can be a successful Ya author and not necessarily 301 00:38:44.540 --> 00:38:48.820 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: be active on a platform like Tiktok. If you're not comfortable with it. So that's good to know. 302 00:38:49.040 --> 00:39:02.720 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: But book talk should kind of embrace your book, though. Did you see kind of a boost in sales just from the you know the Tiktok conversation on book talk surrounding the taking of Jake Livingston. 303 00:39:03.680 --> 00:39:05.370 Ryan Douglass: For sure, like, if 304 00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:14.609 Ryan Douglass: it's hard for me to measure it, just because tick, tock is so like outside of my realm of awareness. But people were sending me a lot of things from there. So 305 00:39:14.660 --> 00:39:28.004 Ryan Douglass: it was great like, I remember. There was one influencer who did a bunch of videos. And and they got a lot of traction. So yeah, like, definitely, tick, tock tick tockers. Book talk is a good way to promote 306 00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:31.190 Ryan Douglass: if they like, for readers like. 307 00:39:31.890 --> 00:39:35.339 Ryan Douglass: not for me as the author, but for readers. Yeah, for sure. 308 00:39:37.330 --> 00:39:49.960 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: We have an anonymous question, since you don't read much. Ya horror. How do you navigate your comps when submitting a manuscript? I'm new to the genre, and as a writer overall, and haven't read much at all either. 309 00:39:53.194 --> 00:39:54.309 Ryan Douglass: So 310 00:39:55.230 --> 00:39:57.970 Ryan Douglass: I'm just gonna be honest. Sometimes I 311 00:39:58.370 --> 00:40:04.600 Ryan Douglass: we'll comp things that I haven't necessarily even read, just because I know how they fit into the market. 312 00:40:07.060 --> 00:40:19.860 Ryan Douglass: I was doing. I'm still trying to get this one done. This one sold. It's a horror fantasy that I'm comping to a book that I haven't read, just because I know that the themes are similar. And I think with stuff like that, like. 313 00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:23.392 Ryan Douglass: for example, with Jake Livingston, they said it was 314 00:40:25.210 --> 00:40:32.209 Ryan Douglass: I think they said it was like Jordan. Peele meets Danielle Vega, and I had never read a Daniel. I didn't even know who Danielle Vega was 315 00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:36.390 Ryan Douglass: so a lot of the time with marketing, you can just really just 316 00:40:37.300 --> 00:40:42.550 Ryan Douglass: see how something strikes the market. Read the summary and just go from there. 317 00:40:42.630 --> 00:40:46.079 Ryan Douglass: It's not necessarily, in my opinion, it's not necessarily like. 318 00:40:46.130 --> 00:40:49.811 Ryan Douglass: is this book front to back something that is 319 00:40:50.780 --> 00:41:10.079 Ryan Douglass: like similar, because my book is nothing like Get out right! Get out! Was the primary comp for the book, just because it's black horror, but intrinsically or like internally, in terms of plot, and like everything, nothing is similar to get out. So it's really just about like, what is it like? What's the vibes like? How do you get people interested in 320 00:41:10.670 --> 00:41:13.449 Ryan Douglass: the type of book that it is. Rather than 321 00:41:13.750 --> 00:41:19.519 Ryan Douglass: so. You have to be aware of the market. But you don't have to necessarily read the books. In my opinion. 322 00:41:20.770 --> 00:41:30.819 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Have you noticed a broader space in opening for amplifying black horror since you know, movies like, Get out, have taken 323 00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:33.709 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: reigns in popular culture. 324 00:41:35.010 --> 00:41:43.910 Ryan Douglass: Yeah, I definitely think, get out was a huge turning point for black horror. And like all areas in terms of like film, ya, adult fiction. 325 00:41:44.288 --> 00:41:50.560 Ryan Douglass: Because that movie was just so well done. And it had such a. It had such an accessible 326 00:41:50.650 --> 00:41:57.383 Ryan Douglass: concept. And it was something that a lot of people could really get into and enjoy. And I think with black horror, 327 00:41:57.950 --> 00:42:07.810 Ryan Douglass: a lot of the buyers and publishing want to say that it's really niche, and, I think, get out kind of like bridged that gap where it was something that 328 00:42:07.820 --> 00:42:20.299 Ryan Douglass: was speaking to social realities. And wasn't that could resonate with black audience, but was also something that could resonate generally with horror audiences and people who don't do horror. So I think that was like the real sweet spot. 329 00:42:20.878 --> 00:42:24.640 Ryan Douglass: And a lot of people have just been piggybacking off of that, for sure. 330 00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:27.930 Ryan Douglass: Yeah, definitely. 331 00:42:29.850 --> 00:42:45.339 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: We have answered all of our questions. Oh, wait! One more just came in. Chandra says, thank you for responding to my question earlier. My last question is, do you have any tips or tricks in pitching your manuscript or query to the literary agents? 332 00:42:46.580 --> 00:42:47.274 Ryan Douglass: Yeah. 333 00:42:53.660 --> 00:42:59.729 Ryan Douglass: The query trenches are just. I've been in the query trenches, so I'm on Agent number 4. 334 00:43:00.330 --> 00:43:04.849 Ryan Douglass: So I've been in the query trenches many times, and it is I, just I feel 335 00:43:05.290 --> 00:43:10.099 Ryan Douglass: the pain of that. Even having books out. I I 336 00:43:10.160 --> 00:43:13.704 Ryan Douglass: every time I create it, feels like I'm back at Square one 337 00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:16.110 Ryan Douglass: I think that 338 00:43:18.440 --> 00:43:21.670 Ryan Douglass: you should probably 339 00:43:22.010 --> 00:43:28.329 Ryan Douglass: do very thorough research. Make sure that who you're submitting to is someone who really 340 00:43:28.650 --> 00:43:31.629 Ryan Douglass: is going to like, resonate with what you're doing. 341 00:43:33.590 --> 00:43:38.770 Ryan Douglass: when you're writing a query letter, start the query with, just like 342 00:43:39.650 --> 00:43:45.370 Ryan Douglass: you don't have to go in saying like, Hey, this is who I am, and this is all about me like, don't! 343 00:43:45.650 --> 00:43:55.313 Ryan Douglass: That's I'm just speaking. From my experience I have gotten agents by just saying, Hi! I'm seeking representation for this 75,000 word novel. 344 00:43:55.860 --> 00:43:59.709 Ryan Douglass: that is, this thing meets this thing and then go right into 345 00:43:59.990 --> 00:44:03.319 Ryan Douglass: the little summary of it, you know. 346 00:44:03.340 --> 00:44:13.860 Ryan Douglass: 17 year old. Such and such is blah blah. These are the circumstances of this person's life, but when such and such a thing happens, they have to switch this. 347 00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:18.770 Ryan Douglass: They have to switch their approach in some way to fix this problem. 348 00:44:18.810 --> 00:44:29.730 Ryan Douglass: and then you complicate it from there. And then you have to put the stakes like at the end. And it's like, if this character is not able to do this thing, then this is the consequence, and then 349 00:44:30.070 --> 00:44:32.790 Ryan Douglass: the final piece for me is like. 350 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:44.469 Ryan Douglass: Usually I'll do like this book is such and such meets such and such, and it deals with themes of identity and complex blah, blah and blah blah. And you can say like 351 00:44:44.530 --> 00:44:46.669 Ryan Douglass: who it might be for as well. 352 00:44:48.030 --> 00:44:49.499 Ryan Douglass: But yeah, just like 353 00:44:50.210 --> 00:44:59.260 Ryan Douglass: man like querying is hard. Just just stay, Patience, that just know that there's a bunch of agents out there as there's so many agencies so just like keep going. Keep going. 354 00:45:00.680 --> 00:45:08.659 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Cody asks, what was your favorite book to write either most enjoyable character relation, or challenges? Thanks again for your great talk. 355 00:45:10.610 --> 00:45:17.476 Ryan Douglass: My favorite book to write. Actually, my favorite book to write is not out yet. It comes out next year. 356 00:45:19.860 --> 00:45:21.299 Ryan Douglass: yeah. So 357 00:45:24.450 --> 00:45:30.562 Ryan Douglass: I will say, though, that just because Jake Livingston is the primary topic of discussion. 358 00:45:31.790 --> 00:45:44.179 Ryan Douglass: one of my favorite challenges of that book which I don't know if it's gonna sound weird. Oh, well, was trying to get into the mind of a murderer and understand why they think the way that they do. And so I did a lot of research on 359 00:45:44.370 --> 00:45:45.130 Ryan Douglass: what? 360 00:45:47.530 --> 00:45:48.340 Ryan Douglass: What? 361 00:45:50.930 --> 00:45:51.715 Ryan Douglass: Oh, 362 00:45:52.630 --> 00:46:01.429 Ryan Douglass: Sorry. I just saw in the chat. Someone recommended a bunch of horror. Authors. So I really appreciate that. I love Adam Caesar, too. I don't know why I forgot him. But yeah. 363 00:46:02.180 --> 00:46:18.919 Ryan Douglass: it's it's I just really like that like really dark stuff like trying to get into, like the headspace of people that we think of as monsters and try to figure out like what is driving these people, you know. How do we? How do we relate to them? How do we differ from them? 364 00:46:19.230 --> 00:46:23.359 Ryan Douglass: And I just love the dark research, the true crime, all that stuff. 365 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:31.960 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Can you tell us anything about the project you're currently working on? What are you allowed to kind of sneak peek to us? 366 00:46:33.150 --> 00:46:38.429 Ryan Douglass: Okay? So there's 2 things that I'm working on. The one is coming out next year. 367 00:46:39.270 --> 00:46:44.649 Ryan Douglass: That one is actually a historical thriller. 368 00:46:44.670 --> 00:46:46.449 Ryan Douglass: There's it's like a 369 00:46:47.050 --> 00:47:02.539 Ryan Douglass: don't like a heist book. So Nick and Jay, like stage a hold on my Internet connection keeps saying it's unstable, Nick and Jay like stage a heist to rob like this rich guy in in Harlem. So it's kind of like just a spin on the great Gatsby. But 370 00:47:02.550 --> 00:47:08.379 Ryan Douglass: I'm also working another one that's unannounced. That's coming out in 2026, which is another. Ya horror. 371 00:47:08.930 --> 00:47:13.889 Ryan Douglass: And it is a again not announced. So shoosh 372 00:47:14.587 --> 00:47:21.419 Ryan Douglass: it's a Willy wonka horror retelling. So it's about a girl who enters into 373 00:47:21.500 --> 00:47:36.189 Ryan Douglass: a competition with influencers to boost her brand and take her family out of poverty. But the guy running the competition is like this crazy, washed up director who like starts murdering them one by one. So that one's really fun. And that's what I'm drafting right now. 374 00:47:36.580 --> 00:47:38.200 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: That sounds fantastic. 375 00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:40.970 Ryan Douglass: thank you! 376 00:47:42.410 --> 00:47:52.979 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: We have another anonymous question. Do you think that time periods would affect what boundaries can be set? For example, ya horror set in 1950, or even 1880. 377 00:47:57.680 --> 00:48:03.500 Ryan Douglass: I really like really gruesome horror from the past, like, I think it's just. 378 00:48:03.660 --> 00:48:06.509 Ryan Douglass: I don't know. There's something about that like it's 379 00:48:07.240 --> 00:48:11.469 Ryan Douglass: I feel like we access these time periods through this like 380 00:48:12.500 --> 00:48:16.789 Ryan Douglass: polish sometimes that I just I love when we see like, just like 381 00:48:17.080 --> 00:48:19.275 Ryan Douglass: no, they were going through it, you know. 382 00:48:20.340 --> 00:48:25.149 Ryan Douglass: I I don't. I I don't know if I'm the person to really 383 00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:32.240 Ryan Douglass: answer that one, because I've never tried writing ya horror necessarily. Well, that's not true. I have tried. I've not succeeded 384 00:48:32.250 --> 00:48:33.240 Ryan Douglass: so 385 00:48:34.340 --> 00:49:01.010 Ryan Douglass: but I also think that like if you're doing something in the 18 hundreds, though, like literally, things were rougher, like things were just when we didn't have all this stuff that we have. Things were rougher. So if I were to pick up a book that was in that time period. I would expect to see some like crazy shit personally, and I would be kind of disappointed if I was picking up something like, I feel like werewolf stories, especially go really well in the 18 hundreds. 386 00:49:01.190 --> 00:49:04.169 Ryan Douglass: Or if you're doing like 19 fifties, and it's for 387 00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:14.520 Ryan Douglass: I mean, I would think of like just like racial unrest, and and the realities of that, because, like human, real human life is very gruesome. So I would I would, I would say. 388 00:49:14.930 --> 00:49:18.819 Ryan Douglass: yeah, like, like, just just go for it. That's my opinion. 389 00:49:20.600 --> 00:49:42.209 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Well, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much, Ryan, for being here with us. The links will be are on the hub now, and this replay will be on the hub as soon as it's done processing. So thank you for being here and answering all of our questions, and thank you to everybody who attended today, and we will see you in about an hour for our next session. 390 00:49:43.500 --> 00:49:44.469 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Alright, thank you. Everyone. 391 00:49:45.370 --> 00:49:46.410 Ryan Douglass: The great talk. 392 00:49:47.130 --> 00:49:48.320 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Bye, everyone.