WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.130 --> 00:00:08.260
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Perfect. So we've opened up, and already people are coming in.

2
00:00:08.430 --> 00:00:25.839
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: There's loads of us joining. Okay, so let me grab my script because I can't remember everything. Okay. Hello, everyone. I'm Sarah from for writing it. Thank you for joining us today. If you can see and hear me, please drop your name and location in the chat.

3
00:00:26.220 --> 00:00:56.049
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: I'm sure everyone's so used to doing that already. But it's always great to see where everyone is from so it looks like you guys can see him hear me? Because we've got people tuning over from Vancouver. We've got Diane from Colorado, Amy from? Oh, Mc, is that North Carolina? We've got Lou from Canada, Lindsay from Newcastle. Uk, nice. See? People from Uk, yeah. Cause it's quite late

4
00:00:56.050 --> 00:01:15.389
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: loads, loads of people coming in. Yeah. Lots of fellow Canadian says. Clarice, I think that's the name so I'm gonna get going. But if you can, yeah, keep going with the with the names away from, because it's always lovely to see where everybody is calling in from.

5
00:01:15.470 --> 00:01:28.909
And then before we get started, I'm just going to go through some housekeeping items. So if you guys can all see the slides if you can, just someone just say yes, that you can see my slides. That would be great.

6
00:01:29.780 --> 00:01:52.650
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: perfect. You can see. Perfect. Thank you. Okay, Dokey. Let's get going then. So how to access your replays. So the replays if you want to watch this again, or if you want to watch any of the other shows again will be on our hub page once they're done processing so the time for this does vary zoom. So what can you do

7
00:01:52.650 --> 00:02:14.779
and but we will put it on as soon as it's ready, so if you don't see it, then maybe come back a little bit later in the day. Or the next day, and you know, just see, but it will be put on the replays are available for everyone for a week after the event. So until March first and then after the state, the replays will be available for premium and premium pro users only

8
00:02:14.780 --> 00:02:28.080
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: and that will be on the community. So I do recommend you. Go and sign up for our community. If you haven't already because there's so much stuff on that that you get access to. So it's always great.

9
00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:50.690
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: I'll mention again a second so we do have a premium day this time. So we've got Monday to Thursday. Sessions are free for everyone to attend and then this time we have Friday sessions which are limited to premium and premium pro users. Only you'll get a dedicated link. So obviously, if you do sign up during this week and you wanna access that. Then go ahead.

10
00:02:50.690 --> 00:03:15.599
And then the I say, you can upgrade like I've mentioned that, and then you will receive. Yeah, they're like, Oh, my God! I'm like repeating myself now I'm reading it, and I'm answering the things before I even read the the lines on the screen. So your offer this time is 25% off of yearly premium or premium pro. We keep adding features to

11
00:03:15.600 --> 00:03:39.940
our premium and premium pro plans. So it's always great to sign up, and if you get a 25% discount is all you know as a bonus. So at the moment we've got advanced suggestions, all the comparisons we're integrating with so many apps, with the chance to use majority of the functionality with all these apps. So yeah, it's really great. And then, obviously, you've got rephrase. You've got the Aic

12
00:03:39.940 --> 00:03:43.259
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: features, but if they're not for you, they're not for you, but it's completely up to you.

13
00:03:43.260 --> 00:04:04.369
So we've with the critique. Now, we also have the opportunity to get some developmental feedback from AI, which is really interesting for writer to to experience. But yeah. So this offer ends on March first. And yeah, take advantage of that. The link is on the hub.

14
00:04:05.200 --> 00:04:35.170
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: So, as I mentioned with the community, we do have our online writing community. We're pushing this because we want to build a really loving, positive place for writers to come and talk and just get to know each other and network and learn stuff. I know I make the most of it as much as I can. We also have our spaces for new features you can request as well, which is something that not many people know about. So if you want to go on there and you see a new feature, and you fancy liking it. That's always great.

15
00:04:35.170 --> 00:05:01.570
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: So and we can talk to each other as well about road maps, which is amazing. So yeah, let's let's do it. Let's keep in touch. So and then just reminders for this session. So we've got a Q&A box. So if you've got questions, I've already got one in the Q. And A. Box. So somebody knows what they're doing. So questions for Sue, our speaker, if you pop them in there, because the chat is going to go

16
00:05:01.570 --> 00:05:26.760
so fast that II might not catch them, and I'm pretty sure that Sue might not catch them either. So if you pop them in the Q. And A. Box, then at least we'll have a chance to go through them and and answer them sorry if we don't get to all of them. So just, you know, in advance. But I will try. We'll try and do what we can. We've got time at the end. If you'd like to chat with everyone else, you can chat in the actual chat box. I have enabled it so that you guys can all

17
00:05:26.760 --> 00:05:46.370
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: talk to each other, and I'll be keeping them on it and dropping in and and chatting to you guys as well. So yeah, do do raise any questions and things that you want from. Yeah, yeah, we can chat and then I will also put some links in there. Let me just Alt, and then I'll quickly put those in there now, because then you can grab

18
00:05:46.490 --> 00:05:50.340
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Grab them before we get started.

19
00:05:50.820 --> 00:06:02.400
Sarah @ ProWritingAid:  there we go. There's links. Hopefully, they all work. Let me know if they don't and then go. I think

20
00:06:02.900 --> 00:06:07.029
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: that's everything. Right. Let me grab my

21
00:06:07.490 --> 00:06:15.460
Sarah @ ProWritingAid:  information about Sue. Okay. So

22
00:06:16.470 --> 00:06:41.030
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: today, we're joined by Sue Campbell. Sue has helped hundreds of writers from Newbies to bestsellers transform their inhibitive mindset around marketing and realize their full potential as authors. Her clients have exponentially increased their email list and book sales, which is what we all want, landed articles in prestigious publications, such as the New York Times and on guest spots on popular Podcasts. And more

23
00:06:41.030 --> 00:06:48.859
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: nice short bio there, I think. But yeah, I'm gonna you're welcome in the chat. All right.

24
00:06:50.160 --> 00:07:02.429
Hello, everyone. Thank you so much to Sarah and pro writing aide for having me. I am delighted to be here. Talking to writers is one of my favorite things. Let me bring up my slideshow.

25
00:07:02.580 --> 00:07:25.200
Sue Campbell: and we will just dive in and get started. I have a lot that I want to download to you from my brain to your brain so that you get some ground under you when it comes to marketing. What I'm gonna talk about today, knowing who your ideal reader is right. A meet queue with your ideal reader is, gonna make all the difference in terms of you, feeling confident in your marketing and knowing what decisions to make.

26
00:07:25.390 --> 00:07:37.740
Sue Campbell: So I'm super super excited. Sarah already introduced me. We're gonna skip that slide and jump right into what we're gonna learn today. So first is why and how to create an ideal reader persona.

27
00:07:38.090 --> 00:07:49.089
Sue Campbell: and then we will talk. That's the crux of it. And and we'll talk about next steps once you know who your ideal reader is, and then we will have plenty of time for questions and responses.

28
00:07:49.620 --> 00:08:01.419
Sue Campbell: So let's talk about what a reader persona is why you need one, how to create one and how to use one. That's how this is gonna break down. But first

29
00:08:02.060 --> 00:08:16.329
Sue Campbell: we need to understand where our reader persona fits into our bigger marketing picture. I don't like those webinars, but they just give you one tiny little piece, and you have no idea where it fits contextually into what else you're supposed to do. So I don't want to do that to you.

30
00:08:16.900 --> 00:08:39.089
Sue Campbell: So this is a framework that I developed. It is, you know, not a reinvention of anything on the planet. It's basically content marketing for authors, but with a really heavy dose of mindset, because I find the authors who don't do their marketing, and therefore don't sell more books. It's really a mindset issue, right? Because it's little bit scary sometimes to do your marketing. So

31
00:08:39.570 --> 00:08:52.060
Sue Campbell: step one of my author. Platform, quick! Start. Framework is to identify your specific goals and dreams, and these will evolve over time as you get more comfortable, I find people will set bigger goals

32
00:08:52.080 --> 00:09:07.190
Sue Campbell: and live into bigger dreams. The more they get comfortable in the more mindset work they do. But we gotta start there. What are your goals? What are your dreams for your career? Now we need to look at what are the harmful stories that you are telling yourself

33
00:09:07.230 --> 00:09:11.430
Sue Campbell: that are going to interfere with your ability to achieve those goals.

34
00:09:11.730 --> 00:09:27.470
Sue Campbell: Right? We all write fiction. We're all very good at being dramatic, and sometimes we are telling ourselves a dramatic, unhelpful story, right? Our inner saboteur has taken over, and it gets in the way of us being able to do our marketing reach for our goals.

35
00:09:27.820 --> 00:09:44.200
Sue Campbell: And then, third in the mindset piece is to reach for a new story. We're gonna edit our old story or throw it all together and start with a blank page. And we're gonna choose a new story that you can keep on telling yourself that will help you take action to build your platform and find your readers.

36
00:09:44.270 --> 00:09:52.610
Sue Campbell: So next step in the framework is to build your platform. This is where we are today. We're going to create an ideal reader persona.

37
00:09:53.100 --> 00:10:03.209
Sue Campbell: once you have that, you can build a website, and you can build an email list full of people who are as close a match to your ideal reader as you can possibly manage.

38
00:10:03.300 --> 00:10:19.899
Sue Campbell: and then you're going to give them some ongoing content. So you can keep building a relationship with those readers and keep them around for every book that you write into the future. Right? These are foundational pieces of our platform building, especially building that email list. That's really your number one goal. Okay?

39
00:10:20.860 --> 00:10:31.780
Sue Campbell: And then, in the last phase of actually finding your readers, you need to research and connect with influencers, influencers, just somebody else who has the audience that you would like access to.

40
00:10:31.890 --> 00:10:35.790
Sue Campbell: Right. That's all an influencer is. Guess how you find influencers.

41
00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:40.559
Sue Campbell: you know who your ideal reader is and what audiences they're a part of.

42
00:10:40.690 --> 00:10:54.689
Sue Campbell: And then we're going to pitch influencers. So we need to make the ask in a way, that's a win-win. I actually have a whole 3 day workshop that's coming up in April, I think, where I walk people through pitching influencers because it's absolutely critical to success.

43
00:10:54.850 --> 00:10:59.749
Sue Campbell: And then you're going to invite those readers to join your audience.

44
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:11.430
Sue Campbell: Right? So this is the overall author platform, quick start framework. I wanted to give you a little bit of context. And we are going to focus today on building that ideal reader. Okay.

45
00:11:12.830 --> 00:11:14.049
Sue Campbell: so here we go.

46
00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:25.340
Sue Campbell: A reader. Persona, if you're just wondering what the heck I'm even talking about from the get is just a character sketch of the ideal reader for your book. It is not

47
00:11:25.870 --> 00:11:48.489
Sue Campbell: a super broad demographic, like all women through the ages of 24 to 64. That's not an ideal reader. That is a significant portion of the world population. That's not gonna help us make any marketing decisions. Right? We want a character sketch is if you were to put this person into one of your novels.

48
00:11:48.620 --> 00:11:56.359
Sue Campbell: We need to know who she is, who they are, who he is. All of these things we need one person.

49
00:11:56.820 --> 00:12:01.910
Sue Campbell: and of course we might be really tempted to skip. figuring this out.

50
00:12:02.260 --> 00:12:26.640
Sue Campbell: but the reason that we don't want to do that is because we will waste a bunch of time trying a bunch of marketing stuff to the wrong person, to the wrong set of people. We're gonna waste money if we do ads and time is money. Right? We're gonna waste on a web designer. If you have a website built before you know who your ideal leader is, you may have wasted a bunch of money, because now you need to go back and rework some things

51
00:12:26.690 --> 00:12:45.410
Sue Campbell: you will definitely have wasted good energy, and I know not. Everyone wants to allot a ton of time and energy to their marketing. Most of them would rather focus on actually writing their books. So the energy that you can spend on your marketing. We want that to be channeled really, really, carefully, toward your ideal reader.

52
00:12:45.800 --> 00:13:13.639
Sue Campbell: And too often people say, Well, my book is for everyone. I want everyone to read my book right. Anyone who has ever loved a romance book will love my book, probably not right when we have marketing and language and copy and imagery that tries to appeal to everyone. It's usually really boring, and it doesn't really catch anyone's attention. And that's certainly not what we want. And then, of course, ultimately, we end up really frustrated over the lack of sales.

53
00:13:13.730 --> 00:13:34.469
Sue Campbell: So this is just an extremely powerful tool. If you wanna find the audience for your book. You really need to know exactly who you're looking for. As I said, your book is not for everyone, actually 24% of adults in the Us. And this is so embarrassing as an American to pull this Stat and share it with a worldwide audience.

54
00:13:34.530 --> 00:13:40.939
Sue Campbell: 24% of us adults surveyed in 2,018 hadn't read a book even part

55
00:13:40.970 --> 00:13:51.760
Sue Campbell: of one book in the last year, so don't let everyone ever escape your lips again when you're talking about who you want to read your book, because a lot of people don't even read at all.

56
00:13:52.200 --> 00:14:11.350
Sue Campbell: So now what we know, we need to develop an ideal reader for all of these reasons that I just talked about. What we're looking to do is find your minimum viable audience. You may have heard of a minimum viable product. Well, for authors, we have a minimum. Minimum minimum viable audience.

57
00:14:11.410 --> 00:14:19.779
Sue Campbell: So how do we create a core audience does not have to be huge that can allow us to sell books and keep writing books.

58
00:14:20.040 --> 00:14:25.340
Sue Campbell: That is the key that we want. We want to find that minimum viable audience

59
00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:41.159
Sue Campbell: hold on 1 s. There we go slide issue. So we're gonna actually look at a nonfiction example. I really did toy with the idea of giving you a full on romance example. And then I was worried that, like 500 people would all start using the exact same reader, persona, if I just handed you one.

60
00:14:41.270 --> 00:14:48.069
So I'm gonna make you use your own writer imagination, and go forward after this webinar to create your specific ideal reader.

61
00:14:48.680 --> 00:14:55.460
Sue Campbell: But let's look at a nonfiction example of a book that I highly recommend. You read because it's wonderful inspiration for writers and artists.

62
00:14:55.670 --> 00:15:17.539
Sue Campbell: This book is called The War of Art, by Stephen Pressfield. It has sold well over 500,000 copies at this point. Right? The Us. Population is 327 million. The world population is 7.5 billion. I think we've all be pretty happy with selling a half a million copies of our book, right. And that's that's not everyone. So that's cool.

63
00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:20.800
Sue Campbell: We don't need to worry about everyone. We just want to get focused.

64
00:15:20.940 --> 00:15:40.870
Sue Campbell: So in order to create your reader, persona, you have to ask yourself a series of questions, and I'm gonna lead you through several ways to build your ideal reader persona. But we want to start with a little bit of like, okay, let's do some reflection here. First question is, who is it? For in order to answer this we can say, alright.

65
00:15:40.870 --> 00:16:05.849
Sue Campbell: what is your genre and story type? So obviously, you're all romance writers. Is there also a subtype that you're writing in? And then, if you saw Anne and Michelle's presentation. They're my 2 colleagues at pages and platforms earlier today. They talk a lot about story types. Today they were presenting on themes. But in a romance novel. Yes, you have a love story. You probably also have another story type surrounding it. Maybe it's action. Maybe it's crime.

66
00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:26.439
Sue Campbell: You know, there are 7 different story types and possibilities. You might even have one of the characters having more of an internal story type as well. So like a worldview shift or a validation story. So it's really important for you to know your sub genre and your story type, because it's gonna help you find the kind of reader who would like that story.

67
00:16:26.660 --> 00:16:31.489
Sue Campbell: You also want to figure out what are some comparable titles

68
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:38.509
Sue Campbell: right? And notice just the mindset thing I'm using the word comparable, not competing titles.

69
00:16:38.520 --> 00:16:59.520
Sue Campbell: Right? We're not in competition with other authors. We want voracious readers who can't get our hands on enough books, so we're never competing with other authors, we're always in it. With them we can always help each other right? So who are some comparable writers, and what which books have they written that are similar in flavor to yours? Sometimes you might have to put a couple of comps together

70
00:16:59.520 --> 00:17:11.450
Sue Campbell: to really get at what you're getting at right. So it's like a little of this, plus a little of that. That's kind of my book. And my vibe know what those books are. If you're not willing to do the research to figure out what your comps are.

71
00:17:12.250 --> 00:17:26.069
Sue Campbell: That's kind of a flag to me that we're not willing to put in quite enough work to do what needs to be done. So do your Comp. Most of your voracious readers, anyway. probably got your comps already. In fact, tell me in the chat. Really quick. If you already know your Comp. Some of them.

72
00:17:27.040 --> 00:17:30.910
Sue Campbell: I'm gonna scroll down because this is fun. Cameron knows. Comps.

73
00:17:32.360 --> 00:17:34.600
Sue Campbell: Yep, a few. Yes, yes.

74
00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:39.189
Sue Campbell: okay, wonderful. Then think about those comps.

75
00:17:39.230 --> 00:17:48.910
Sue Campbell: And then how is your book different from those? Yes, it's comparable. But what stands out about your book. How is it different? You want to know that as well?

76
00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:58.389
Sue Campbell: So let's answer some of these questions for the war of art as an example. So the genre is basically like a nonfiction. Big idea book.

77
00:17:58.500 --> 00:18:07.820
Sue Campbell: right? It's inspirational. comparable titles would be things like bird by bird, by Anne Lamont. That was for

78
00:18:07.890 --> 00:18:11.609
Sue Campbell: specifically for writers the elements of style.

79
00:18:11.890 --> 00:18:15.050
Sue Campbell: right? A very classic classic book.

80
00:18:15.300 --> 00:18:27.959
Sue Campbell: Those are comparable titles. I bet you can already see how those are different. If you've read all 3 books, how those 2 books are different from the war of art. But I know my comps, and I know how I'm different. Who reads those books.

81
00:18:28.020 --> 00:18:35.500
Sue Campbell: writers who want to improve their craft, or people who want to be writers and aren't comfortable calling themselves writers. Yet

82
00:18:35.760 --> 00:18:37.190
Sue Campbell: how is it different.

83
00:18:37.490 --> 00:18:46.039
Sue Campbell: The war of art focuses on battling resistance or your inner saboteur, and not actually improving writing skills.

84
00:18:46.190 --> 00:18:51.260
Sue Campbell: Right? So very, very important to know how you are different.

85
00:18:51.430 --> 00:19:01.309
Sue Campbell: Alright. So that's your first frame of asking yourself those questions. I highly recommend you. Go back and watch the replay of this, so you can kind of walk yourself through

86
00:19:01.410 --> 00:19:05.840
Sue Campbell: what's going on here? And answering all these questions for yourself.

87
00:19:05.870 --> 00:19:21.219
Sue Campbell: Now, we're gonna do a little bit of digital sleuthing. So those comparable titles that we were talking about. Go ahead and read the reviews on those books, read the really good reviews, and read the really bad reviews, because that's gonna tell you something, too. Right?

88
00:19:21.260 --> 00:19:38.410
Sue Campbell: Read the reviews. Sometimes you can even do a little benevolent online stocking. And you can figure out, oh, this is a real person, and they've got the same handle over on the social media platform, and you can get even more information about that person by cross referencing them across the web

89
00:19:38.670 --> 00:19:54.449
Sue Campbell: again. We're only doing it for our own purposes. We're not being creepy about it. We just want to figure out who our ideal reader is. So you can also visit the author's website of authors who are similar to you, or have written similar books.

90
00:19:54.650 --> 00:20:04.089
Sue Campbell: Cautionary note. Just because a writer has a website doesn't mean they're sort of quote unquote, doing it right right? And that you should copy exactly what they're doing.

91
00:20:04.220 --> 00:20:25.799
Sue Campbell: I actually have a whole nother webinar about author websites which we don't have time to go into today, but visit their website and see what you can learn from it. Oh, I think this would speak to my ideal reader. No, I don't think my ideal reader would like that element of it. So really look with a critical lens at that author's website. Look on social media. See if that author has a fan following.

92
00:20:26.510 --> 00:20:31.800
Sue Campbell: and what you can learn by looking at the chatter that's happening between the fans

93
00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:44.469
Sue Campbell: right? Particularly if you have a Comp. Author who's very big and well known. It's very easy to find fan groups right where you can really get a read on what those fans want from that author and what they're hearing.

94
00:20:44.770 --> 00:20:47.540
Sue Campbell: Great. You take a little sip of Kombucha.

95
00:20:50.630 --> 00:20:52.980
Now we're going to look at another approach.

96
00:20:53.450 --> 00:20:57.570
Sue Campbell: So all of what we just did there takes a little online digital slew thing.

97
00:20:58.430 --> 00:21:18.530
Sue Campbell: We can take another approach. And we can interview an actual reader. So when Sarah and I were talking right before the webinar started we were talking about this topic a little bit, and Sarah's a romance writer as well. And she said, I actually think of my mom right? And of course she's British. So she says, Mom, and it sounds way better than my American mom.

98
00:21:18.540 --> 00:21:22.950
Sue Campbell: But she was talking about how she's got her ideal reader at her fingertips.

99
00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:32.940
Sue Campbell: She can have her mom in mind when she's writing she can have her mom in mind as as she's marketing. Right? So you can interview an actual reader. Sarah could interview her mom

100
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:39.120
Sue Campbell: and really come up with a great profile of your ideal reader.

101
00:21:39.430 --> 00:22:07.489
Sue Campbell: So some questions you can ask. This is not an exhaustive list, because slides are only so big. But what are your favorite books? And why so? If you don't know your comp tit titles yet? But you know someone who you could interview, who's your ideal, reader? You could probably figure some out this way. What are your favorite books, and why? How do you decide what books to read? This will give you a really good glimpse into people's decision making process. And maybe there are some influencers whose opinion they trust.

102
00:22:07.530 --> 00:22:10.829
Sue Campbell: who you could reach out to as part of your marketing.

103
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:20.759
Sue Campbell: do they, or is it like their local librarian? Or do they go and ask at the bookstore, or do they follow somebody on bookstagram, you know, on Instagram or on book talk.

104
00:22:21.270 --> 00:22:24.299
Sue Campbell: find out how they decide how to read their books.

105
00:22:24.670 --> 00:22:30.580
Sue Campbell: or which books to read, and then ask them, where do you spend most of your time online?

106
00:22:31.320 --> 00:22:38.889
Sue Campbell: What podcasts do you listen to? If any, maybe your ideal reader doesn't listen to podcasts at all, that's good information to know, too.

107
00:22:39.050 --> 00:22:46.270
Sue Campbell: If you really find that your ideal reader who you're interviewing in person is

108
00:22:46.270 --> 00:23:10.149
Sue Campbell: not interacting with anybody's audiences at all, and it does not have certain influencers they follow, or any of that you might want to pivot and interview an additional person and sort of blend your ideal readers together, because you do want an ideal reader who you can find out in the world who's part of other audiences so that you can get in front of those audiences. So just a little caveat there

109
00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:40.689
Sue Campbell: also, of course. What subgenres of romance do you read? Because if you are writing Erotica and somebody else likes only sweet romance. The person you're interviewing. That's not your ideal reader right? But do they read other sub genres? Are they open to? Are you someone who might switch subgenres in the future. It's good to build with that audience in mind. If you know for sure you want to switch into another subgenre. You want an ideal reader. Build it out once for someone who will read across those sub genres

110
00:23:41.870 --> 00:23:54.029
Sue Campbell: alright. So we've got a bunch of data. Now, we've done some online sleuthing. Hopefully, we've interviewed a real person. And now we want to write this up into something that we can use.

111
00:23:54.080 --> 00:24:11.870
Sue Campbell: So of course, basic information, demographical information. Again, I don't want you to say any age between 35 and 65. I'm creating a character sketch here. You want to be very specific. Is this the one person who we're interviewing? So how old are they?

112
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:26.180
Sue Campbell: What's their gender, their ethnicity, their religion, their location, their occupation, their relationship status, all of these things. How much leisure time do they have per week for reading? That's an important thing to know.

113
00:24:26.300 --> 00:24:34.210
Sue Campbell: Then we have. Those are real basic. But we have something called psychographics. So this gets to like the world view

114
00:24:34.390 --> 00:24:49.679
Sue Campbell: of a specific reader. Right? What is there value system? And how does that play into their choices about what they read. So some things to think about when you're considering psychographics is what is their biggest problem.

115
00:24:50.090 --> 00:24:56.929
Sue Campbell: right? It doesn't have to be related to reading. Maybe they just have a great big problem that makes them want to escape into their romance novels.

116
00:24:57.260 --> 00:24:58.780
Sue Campbell: Right? That's

117
00:24:58.870 --> 00:25:16.559
Sue Campbell: readers you know, across time, and the world have gone to books for escape. So if you know their biggest problem, there's something they're struggling with, you can be like, okay, I'm looking for someone who really needs an an escape and a release into a fantasy world. And I wanna be really clear that I can provide that.

118
00:25:17.290 --> 00:25:29.160
Sue Campbell: What's their favorite book? What's their favorite movie? What's their favorite TV show? What goals do? They have? Right? Their outside world goals? Or maybe they have a goal to read, a certain number of books in a year. That's nice to know.

119
00:25:29.290 --> 00:25:46.280
Sue Campbell: Do they have a political affiliation? Do they have favorite media outfits. Outlets. Sorry. What are their hobbies? What are their values? What are their habits? What do they do for social media use? Right? Are they an Instagram person. Tik tok person.

120
00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:48.330
Sue Campbell: a

121
00:25:49.620 --> 00:25:54.050
Sue Campbell: Facebook person, whatever social media they happen to be using.

122
00:25:54.520 --> 00:26:07.450
Sue Campbell: we want to know that because again, this once we have this profile. It's going to help us make so many decisions. And I see everyone's like working it out in the chat and figuring stuff out for their ideal reader, and I love love, love, love, love, love to see that.

123
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:18.200
Sue Campbell: So that is like, I'm going to give you a spreadsheet template. I'll actually pop it in the chat right now. You can go sign up for my email list and we'll send you that

124
00:26:18.310 --> 00:26:29.529
Sue Campbell: template. So I'll give you a spreadsheet where you can populate all that information. But I also want to show you, because we're writers and not all of us love spreadsheets. You can do a narrative approach.

125
00:26:29.930 --> 00:26:45.380
Sue Campbell: So I had a client who's writing a nonfiction book about business communication and social communication, and when I set him to the task of finding out about his ideal reader. He absolutely knocked it out of the park

126
00:26:45.450 --> 00:26:52.519
Sue Campbell: with this detailed character sketch. Right? So I'm not gonna read the whole thing to you, but I just want you to kind of notice

127
00:26:52.550 --> 00:27:00.480
Sue Campbell: the depth and breadth of what he was able to put into Ryan. Who's this 40 year, old man living in West Seattle in the Us.

128
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:11.289
Sue Campbell: You can see that he's married. These are his basic demographics right up here. This is a sort of snapshot of the ideal reader in a narrative form.

129
00:27:12.190 --> 00:27:25.709
Sue Campbell: We've got even a little bit of what his commute is like. Who he works with what he's facing at work. So these are his challenges. Right? What is he facing in his daily life that is challenging for him?

130
00:27:26.190 --> 00:27:38.950
Sue Campbell: And then he gets into some detail about that which is really important for his particular kind of nonfiction that he's writing. You may not need to go that in-depth for romance, reader, purposes. Maybe you do.

131
00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:41.410
Sue Campbell: And then we get into attributes.

132
00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:54.449
Sue Campbell: This is a great psychographic piece, right? That Ryan has a growth mindset. He's a lifelong learner and a keen consumer of books. He's into pop psychology. Right? Think about your ideal romance, reader.

133
00:27:54.650 --> 00:28:13.650
Sue Campbell: Do they have a growth mindset, or do they want? You know, cookie cutter romance that is exactly in line and ticks all of these boxes. We want to know that. How many books does this person read in a year. We want to know all these attributes. Sort of character study wise about this person.

134
00:28:14.380 --> 00:28:22.530
Sue Campbell: Rob also went into brilliantly buying habits which, again, is really important, if your ideal reader only ever gets books from the library.

135
00:28:22.590 --> 00:28:52.379
Sue Campbell: I love libraries, but I also love authors making money on their books, right? So we might want to focus on someone who's rather a rabid book buyer rather than a dedicated, exclusive library patron. So know what the buying habits are for this person. Are they read on? Do they read on, kindle? Do they read solely print? Do they need a large print edition? Right. We wanna think of that also buying habits talking about favorite authors. So if you looked on the shelf.

136
00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:54.330
Sue Campbell: or, you know could

137
00:28:54.380 --> 00:29:01.400
Sue Campbell: oh, they'd open their kindle, and you could look through their library and their kindle. What would be there? Also. Podcast

138
00:29:02.710 --> 00:29:18.509
Sue Campbell: so podcasts are a great way for you to get out and promote your book pretty quickly and easily. So think about our podcast an opportunity for you. Again, social media. He's got social media in here. So basically, the Internet habits

139
00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:24.329
Sue Campbell: of your ideal reader. Okay, so that's the narrative approach which I really really love.

140
00:29:24.830 --> 00:29:34.139
Sue Campbell: I'll give you the template. I can probably also try to throw in the Pdf. Of Rob's whole narrative outline, which I think could be a helpful little template for you as well.

141
00:29:34.220 --> 00:29:52.199
Sue Campbell: So now we want to think about using the persona lot of love for libraries in the chat. Yes, and yes, you can make money from libraries. I totally get that again. We also want to think about having a broad audience where we're selling individual books as well. So holistic approach to book sales is wonderful.

142
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.870
Sue Campbell: How are we gonna use this persona?

143
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:09.539
Sue Campbell: Right? We've gone to all of the trouble to do it. Cause you said we should. Now, what do we do with it. This is something that you can use to make every other marketing decision that you have to make as an author.

144
00:30:09.610 --> 00:30:20.020
Sue Campbell: Right? So remember, when we were back in the framework. And I talked about, you want to build an email list like that's your number one marketing asset is to build an email list of readers.

145
00:30:20.270 --> 00:30:32.469
Sue Campbell:  when you know who you're looking for, you can design a reader magnet right? Something you're offering to someone who signs up to get on your email list.

146
00:30:32.830 --> 00:30:49.039
Sue Campbell: You can design a reader magnet for that person that they will absolutely love. Maybe it's a short story. Maybe it's a novella. Maybe it's a first in series. Maybe it's just a great big list of other romance books that they really need to not miss

147
00:30:49.180 --> 00:30:52.079
Sue Campbell: right, that are all similar to your book.

148
00:30:52.270 --> 00:31:11.620
Sue Campbell: So Rob, knowing his ideal reader, Ryan developed a training course called Silent Influence as a free training which was a perfect reader magnet for Rob's ideal reader, and he knew that that would be perfect because he did the groundwork of figuring out who his ideal reader was.

149
00:31:11.790 --> 00:31:19.139
Sue Campbell: A lot of authors tell me. Well, I know you say I should have an email list and send out a newsletter, but I don't know what to write about.

150
00:31:19.430 --> 00:31:39.250
Sue Campbell: If you know who your ideal reader is? Then you write something that that person would care about if you were having coffee with that person. If you had a copy date. What would you talk about? What would be the most interesting thing you could bring to that conversation that will help you figure out what you're going to write about, or your newsletter, or on your blog, or both.

151
00:31:39.430 --> 00:31:40.730
Sue Campbell: preferably both.

152
00:31:41.380 --> 00:31:50.630
Sue Campbell: And you're gonna use that person when you're crafting articles, either your own articles or for somebody else's audience. You're gonna write with that person in mind.

153
00:31:51.690 --> 00:32:03.160
Sue Campbell: You can also find out where that person hangs out online. This is probably the key leverage that you can do with your ideal reader is be like, okay.

154
00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:07.299
Sue Campbell: let's say that our ideal reader's name is Monica.

155
00:32:08.490 --> 00:32:13.190
Sue Campbell: I can start looking out in the world. What are the podcasts? What are the websites?

156
00:32:13.340 --> 00:32:30.099
Sue Campbell:  where are the social media outlets where Monica would be hanging out? Where's Monica? And that provides a heat map of where you're going to try to promote your book. Right? That's the audience that you want to get in front of is the audience full of Monica's

157
00:32:30.750 --> 00:32:31.739
Sue Campbell: make sense.

158
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:37.950
Sue Campbell: Okay? That's such a key point. I just wanna underline a little bit alright. Okay?

159
00:32:39.250 --> 00:32:54.260
Sue Campbell: Then you can also, when you're on a podcast, for example, or when you're at a conference where you're going to be a speaker, you can speak to that person with that person in mind. What's going to entertain? Inform Delight that particular person?

160
00:32:54.630 --> 00:33:03.560
Sue Campbell: Right? What does Monica want to hear? What's gonna keep her really listening and tuned in? What's gonna make her want to go look up my website and buy my book. Hi.

161
00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:20.280
Sue Campbell: as writers, we know this in our fiction, that there is power in specificity. Right? It's a show. Don't tell kind of mantra. There's so much power in specificity. The exact same thing is true in your marketing.

162
00:33:20.420 --> 00:33:23.430
Sue Campbell: You want to reach your ideal reader.

163
00:33:23.980 --> 00:33:31.570
Sue Campbell: and if you do a good job of talking to that person in a very engaging way, they are going to start to do your marketing for you.

164
00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:39.490
Sue Campbell: Right? We saturate the space where I, our ideal reader, is, and then that person finds your books, love them.

165
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:47.469
Sue Campbell: can't stop talking about them. It's telling everybody else to read them. And if we get enough of those people doing that for us.

166
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:58.999
Sue Campbell: that's how we get this word of mouth and this great reputation, and all of this spread. And then we can actually do less and less of our own marketing, heavy lifting as we go on. Okay.

167
00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:07.150
Sue Campbell: let's look at a quick review of what we talked about today. And then I am very excited about the QA.

168
00:34:07.340 --> 00:34:20.699
Sue Campbell: So we looked at the author platform, quick start framework, and that we're in building our platform mode. And in order to build the platform, we have to know who our ideal reader is. So we talked about what a reader persona is.

169
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:28.169
Sue Campbell: We talked about why we need one. We talked about how we can create one. And then we talked about how to use one.

170
00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:38.879
Sue Campbell: Right? So we wanna engineer a meet queue with our ideal leader for filling out that profile and making sure that it's a match. I'm gonna put the template link

171
00:34:38.969 --> 00:34:41.690
Sue Campbell: into the chat again for you.

172
00:34:43.190 --> 00:34:52.259
Sue Campbell: and then we can get Sarah back and start tackling some of your questions.

173
00:34:52.380 --> 00:35:00.669
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Nice one. That was amazing. I've already learned loads of things that I'm gonna be using. One of the things that I really liked was the

174
00:35:00.670 --> 00:35:25.279
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: the growth mindset part. I hadn't thought about that, and I was like stood here thinking, I wonder if my mom has a growth mindset. And I'm thinking maybe I should already know that. But I, you know, talk to my mom more. I'll have that interview. We've already got like 18 questions, which is amazing.

175
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:34.360
Sue Campbell: I am just gonna drop some links in the chat straight away as well, because some people say they're not seeing links, but

176
00:35:34.810 --> 00:35:51.859
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: yeah, there we go perfect. So yeah, we we will probably end up with a the chat going really fast during this. So I thought, I'll just drop all of the links, and then anyone who wasn't here at the beginning can grab them. Perfect. Right? Let's see.

177
00:35:52.110 --> 00:35:54.069
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Okay.

178
00:35:54.120 --> 00:36:14.350
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: do, do, do, do do do so, we'll start off with this one. I'm writing a Cross genre series. This is from Cheyenne, I think, is how you pronounce that historic see adventure. Love stories sounds amazing. Since this doesn't fit into a neat box I'm struggling with how to define the ideal reader. In my case, any ideas.

179
00:36:15.240 --> 00:36:21.500
Sue Campbell: Well, I love this question right? Because it's like when we think comparable authors we're like thinking of like what's

180
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:38.759
Sue Campbell: so so so so close. We don't have to think like that right? We can't. We have the opportunity when we don't have a neat little box to stand out right in my mind as a marketer. This is actually a plus when we mishmash things together that people don't necessarily expect

181
00:36:38.910 --> 00:36:55.669
Sue Campbell: right? So one thing I'll say, Cheyenne, for your ideal reader is, then you're probably do want someone with that growth mindset, not for someone who wants the exact same, you know. Nora Roberts book right every single time. So you would want to think about who is the kind of reader

182
00:36:55.960 --> 00:37:12.860
Sue Campbell: who will really appreciate what I'm doing here. So someone who has read historical fiction before someone who definitely is into romance as well. And then the little adventure piece in there. I think you actually got a really nice setup. You just wanna push

183
00:37:12.860 --> 00:37:26.760
Sue Campbell: those things forward as much as you can to make sure you're attracting the person who's a little more like, oh, what's this fun new, fresh, take on it rather than the the person who wants. You know the bodice ripper, and that's all they want.

184
00:37:26.860 --> 00:37:38.240
Sue Campbell: Right? So think about that. Don't think of it as a liability. Actually think of it as an asset and figure out, you know. Maybe it's an ideal reader who, while they may not

185
00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:49.500
Sue Campbell: had that exact combination before. They've read other cross genre things right? They're cross, cross genre lovers. They're open minded in that way that really build your ideal reader around someone like that?

186
00:37:50.560 --> 00:38:19.030
Sue Campbell: Awesome. So how is a mailing list from my website different to a sub stac newsletter? And which do I want? That was a question from Daryl. Oh, this is such a good question, and I could go off about sub stac. But I'll just give you like a high level. Pros and cons, because there are some great things about sub stac. But it has some major limitations for authors as well, even though they're really marketing hard to authors.

187
00:38:19.040 --> 00:38:28.309
Sue Campbell: So essentially, you can create a sub stac newsletter. And you can create a form for it on your website. So that just would be your email list.

188
00:38:28.610 --> 00:38:36.160
Sue Campbell: right? You can use sub Stac as your email service provider and just put the form on your website that will sign them up for your sub stac.

189
00:38:36.230 --> 00:38:43.050
Sue Campbell: So you 100% can use sub stack as the platform that you're using for your newsletter.

190
00:38:43.680 --> 00:38:49.560
Sue Campbell: And then where you want to think about it, and maybe choose a different one

191
00:38:49.820 --> 00:38:55.000
Sue Campbell: like convert kit or mail, or light, or something like that is that

192
00:38:55.060 --> 00:39:04.350
Sue Campbell: sub stack does not play nice with any other platforms, any other apps. So if you're gonna run ads.

193
00:39:04.420 --> 00:39:20.619
Sue Campbell: or to build your newsletter, you can't directly push it to your sub stack newsletter like, if you run a Facebook lead ad where they're capturing the lead in the Facebook, you can't push it to sub stack behind the scenes like I can when I'm running Facebook ads, and I can push them over to convert kit.

194
00:39:20.770 --> 00:39:29.819
Sue Campbell: Okay, so we're talking a little technical in the weeds here. Sub Stac also will not let you tag people with any relevant information.

195
00:39:29.830 --> 00:39:36.209
Sue Campbell: So, for example, if you know that someone has read the first book in your series, or that they pre-ordered your book.

196
00:39:36.310 --> 00:39:47.960
Sue Campbell: you can't tag them in sub stac. To say, Oh, this person, already pre-ordered! There's no way to signify like on that person's profile any sort of extra information.

197
00:39:48.020 --> 00:40:11.540
Sue Campbell: right? I would be subsets, biggest fan if they would just let me do those 2 things. I'd be so happy. But when I'm running a launch for an author, and we're trying to do a pre-order campaign and they have a sub stack list, we basically have to start a whole. Another email list like export, it, push it into another provider so that we can actually track and deliver what we promised we would just to those people who meet certain criteria.

198
00:40:11.630 --> 00:40:31.250
Sue Campbell: So sub stack is great. If all you're ever gonna do is send a newsletter. If you're ever gonna do anything a little more sophisticated than that. Then Sub Stack is, gonna make it, you know, you're gonna have to do it somewhere else and sub stack, and that gets really messy and time consuming, and you probably need a virtual assistant unless you really love doing that kind of stuff. And some people do. I kinda do.

199
00:40:31.310 --> 00:40:35.070
Sue Campbell: which is how I ended up doing what I do.

200
00:40:35.200 --> 00:40:58.880
Sue Campbell: But yeah, I will. I'll leave it at that. But I have a lot to say, generally about sub stack. The people in our happily ever Author club are always hearing me go off about sub stack and other email newsletter providers. The most important thing, though, is just to build that list, no matter what tool you use. You own that list so you can always export it and move either to sub stack or away from sub stack. It's just gonna be a little bit of a role when you do it.

201
00:41:00.120 --> 00:41:17.350
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Perfect. Alright. Yeah. Oh, that was really helpful information. I like banking everything. So let's have a look at this. So this one's anonymous. So it says. Should I consider my ideal reader when looking for a publisher. Slash. Considering self publishing, I like this question.

202
00:41:17.740 --> 00:41:38.579
Sue Campbell: I think you should right like knowing ahead of time who you're writing for and who the audience is going to be is gonna help you, whether you choose to traditionally publish or independently publish. Right? So you're looking for. If you're traditionally publishing, for example, and you're probably gonna get an agent. You don't always have to. But most people who traditionally publish will get an agent.

203
00:41:38.950 --> 00:41:42.389
Sue Campbell: You want to know that that agent represents authors.

204
00:41:42.670 --> 00:41:54.999
Sue Campbell: We have the same kind of ideal reader that you have. It doesn't have to be an exact match, but the more you align yourself with agents and publishers who know the audience that you're trying to get to the better.

205
00:41:55.050 --> 00:42:08.190
Sue Campbell: And I feel like, because you're already under the romance umbrella. You're gonna already be a little bit ahead of the game on that, anyway. And then definitely on the self publishing side. If you're self publishing. And again.

206
00:42:08.190 --> 00:42:25.859
Sue Campbell: you're gonna have to do your own marketing, whether you're traditionally published or independently published. My client split is 50 50 because traditional publishers, unless you get sprinkled with magic fairy dust. Just don't do that much marketing for authors anymore. They want you to bring your own audience that you possibly can

207
00:42:25.990 --> 00:42:43.219
Sue Campbell:  But if you're thinking about the independent side, you basically have a business to run. And when you run a business, you definitely have to know who your ideal customer is, so you can build everything with them in mind. It's so much easier to attract and retain loyal fans when you've got consistent messaging that's

208
00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:51.119
Sue Campbell: perfect for them. So yes, you should definitely consider your ideal reader, whether or not you're traditionally publishing or independently publishing

209
00:42:52.460 --> 00:43:14.239
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: perfections. Thank you. Dedicate. So this next one's really interesting. I I'm gonna probably ruin this name. But it's I think it's yeah, Lilith said. It's the first time I hear about comparable titles. Can you explain specifically exactly what they are? I think that's that's a very good question. If you're not familiar with it.

210
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:36.560
Sue Campbell: Yes, so thank you to everyone asking questions if you like. If I'm saying any words that you don't know the meaning of, or concepts, please do that because I guarantee you. You're not the only one in this audience with that. So a comparable title is a book that you feel would have the same kind of audience as your book right? If people love that book.

211
00:43:36.610 --> 00:43:38.410
Sue Campbell: they will love your book.

212
00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:49.400
Sue Campbell: That's as simply as we can explain it and boil it down, is a comparable book is one where, if your ideal reader loved it, and then they would love this book and vice versa

213
00:43:49.470 --> 00:44:05.370
Sue Campbell: right again. That's just going to help you start to pull a thread and figure out what kind of ideal reader you might be appealing to, because you've got a book that already has a track record out in the world. Right? And ideally, we want to pick comparable titles that have met with some level of success.

214
00:44:05.470 --> 00:44:35.230
Sue Campbell: Right? We don't want to go to Amazon and find a comparable title. Who, you know, they're way at the bottom of the list. Not that it inherently means it's a bad book, but we want to be able to leverage the success that another book has had. So we can start to pull the thread and see, where did that author promote their book? Where have they shown up? What podcast? Have they been? On? What conferences do they go to that could just help us get more ideas about our ideal reader, and about what kinds of outreach we should be doing? Out in the world, too.

215
00:44:35.950 --> 00:44:51.909
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: we have a question. Another question from. We've got one from Clarice. I think it is and it's kind of a follow-on. So it says so. What about comp media in general. So like video games, fictional Tiktok series and podcasts, etc.

216
00:44:52.090 --> 00:45:12.749
Sue Campbell: Yeah, that can actually be really helpful to think broadly, especially given, like, how integrated everything is these days. Right? So what Clarice is talking about is like, okay, let's say that I think my ideal reader is also someone who would be, you know really heavily into book talk, or really heavily into a certain video game

217
00:45:12.860 --> 00:45:33.770
Sue Campbell: that can be really helpful to know that. Because then you're building an ideal reader with that interest. And let's say, for example, you need to think of a newsletter topic right? You can be like, Oh, I can write about, you know my experience with this video game? And what's tripping me up right now, or what hints can I share? Or why do I love it so much? Why am I so obsessed?

218
00:45:33.860 --> 00:45:46.709
Sue Campbell: It helps you generate content. and it helps you figure out how to reach them so you could use a hashtag right when you're trying to talk to your audience and find them that would speak to that person's particular interest.

219
00:45:46.820 --> 00:45:55.490
Sue Campbell: So yes, that is very, very smart. That's sort of a 201 level right of digging into your ideal reader, and I absolutely love it. I think you should do it

220
00:45:55.910 --> 00:46:21.429
Sue Campbell: awesome. Okay, I've got 2 questions from an anonymous attendee and they both look very similar. So I'm gonna ask the second one, because it basically is the same as the first one. So it says, what if you are your own ideal reader, or does your ideal reader need to be someone who's a little different from you? Very good question. This is such a good question, and you can absolutely be your own ideal reader. Most of us were writing the book, because

221
00:46:21.430 --> 00:46:26.499
Sue Campbell: that's what we would want to read right? So it can be a great starting place.

222
00:46:26.680 --> 00:46:32.969
Sue Campbell:  there was one of my favorite Salenger books

223
00:46:33.300 --> 00:46:49.349
Sue Campbell: talks about, you know. There's a letter in it where he's talking to. He got a letter from his brother, and his brother is encouraging him because he's a writer, and he's saying, think about the thing that you most wanna read, and then write the thing yourself. Right? So I love that concept

224
00:46:50.310 --> 00:47:01.840
Sue Campbell: so you can use that as a starting point and definitely like, write the profile up on yourself. Think about what podcast do I listen to? Right, think about all of those questions for yourself.

225
00:47:02.160 --> 00:47:04.840
Sue Campbell: and then also

226
00:47:04.870 --> 00:47:26.910
Sue Campbell: think about someone who might be a little different from you, because the one hangup that I see about this approach sometimes is, then we assign all of our things that we hate about marketing to our ideal reader right? Like I would never sign up for someone's newsletter right like, if you're not someone who signs up for somebody's newsletter. And you create an ideal reader who doesn't sign up for somebody's newsletter.

227
00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:39.489
Sue Campbell: You're gonna have a problem building an email list which is like your number one marketing tool for selling books. Right? So just be careful not to give your ideal reader any little hangups you have that might limit your reach

228
00:47:39.560 --> 00:47:57.709
Sue Campbell: so right you can make it like, oh, it's me! But who like signs up for stuff all the time, or it's me. But who has a bigger budget to buy books, or whatever that little hangup might be that might trip you up. It can be helpful to sort of supplement your ideal reader, if it's you with somebody else who's got some slightly different attributes.

229
00:47:58.370 --> 00:48:23.310
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Great question, yeah. Amazing question Hideoki. So I've got a question from Laurie. So she says. Sorry. I've been lucky to have an author whose work is similar to mine share my posts, even posts about a new release in her newsletter crickets. So what should I prioritize looking at to improve clicks and sales?

230
00:48:23.690 --> 00:48:36.909
Sue Campbell: Okay, great. So I love that you're hooking up with another author to try to get some exposure without seeing everything right. Of course I can only give generalized advice, but this is great cause. Then it's gonna apply to everyone. So

231
00:48:38.510 --> 00:48:47.179
Sue Campbell: when you're selecting the author again, I'm broadening this up for everyone, cause it looks like Lori's done that you want someone whose work is similar.

232
00:48:47.290 --> 00:49:06.150
Sue Campbell: And you want someone with a fairly engaged list like, I don't know anything about this author. I don't know the size of their list. I don't know, you know the frequency with which she sent things out to the authors on that list, so it could be something in her relationship with her audience. That's not connecting.

233
00:49:06.630 --> 00:49:30.040
Sue Campbell: So that's one thing to think of when you're considering who to partner with, and at first just partner with everybody, even if there's like no blip on the radar at all. It's such good practice, right? It like, don't sweat like finding the perfect person a heart to partner with. So this is a really great drive on Lori. The second thing is, you wanna really make it nice and tight like that description

234
00:49:30.070 --> 00:49:33.949
Sue Campbell: of the book really entice them, and we're most

235
00:49:34.070 --> 00:49:39.419
Sue Campbell: people fall down. And again, I didn't see yours particularly is the call to action

236
00:49:39.650 --> 00:50:00.299
Sue Campbell: right? So a call to action is you're giving somebody information so that they know whether they like it or not. And then you're specifically asking them to do something. So maybe it's go and join, you know Laurie's Newsletter. Maybe that was what the request is. Maybe it was. Go by her book right? You have to have a really strong, clear call to action.

237
00:50:00.540 --> 00:50:21.629
Sue Campbell: and that is actually doing a favor to the reader like, Oh, you liked this. Here's how to get the next piece of it. Here's how to take the next step right, whether they do that or not is completely up to them. But you wanna be able to make a really strong, clear offer. Sometimes when people when it's crickets, it's because people are confused or because you're giving them too many options.

238
00:50:22.270 --> 00:50:38.859
Sue Campbell: right? So confused would be like. I don't know if this book is for me, because something is really off about the description is not making sense. Too many options would be. Follow Laurie on Instagram, follow Lori on Tiktok, go, buy her book, go join her, Newsletter, and you give like a list of 5 different links, and if I'm in a hurry, I'm just clicking off

239
00:50:39.100 --> 00:50:52.740
Sue Campbell: right? So what's the number? One thing that you want them to do? That's your call to action. And for my money. That's always join your email list. Because once they're on your email list, you have multiple opportunities to tell them about each and every one of your books.

240
00:50:53.650 --> 00:51:13.090
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Nice one. I could go up on that question forever. That was super good. But we should keep going. Yeah, that that was amazing, though I like. It's great to have like a specific example that just leads to great help for everybody. So I love that. Okay. So Helena asked. You comps from indie books work for traditional publishing.

241
00:51:13.810 --> 00:51:20.480
Sue Campbell: Okay, so this is a great question. I'm gonna parse it out a little bit. So if you're writing like a book proposal or trying to get an agent.

242
00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:31.749
Sue Campbell: You probably don't want to use a Comp. From an Indie to pursue professional or traditional publishing, not professional publishing traditional publishing, they can both be done very professionally.

243
00:51:31.980 --> 00:51:39.809
Sue Campbell: So. if that is your goal. No, you don't want to use an indie unless it was an absolute knockout.

244
00:51:40.310 --> 00:52:07.350
Sue Campbell: demonstrable bestseller. But even then traditional people sometimes get a little it about it. So if if you're pursuing traditional in that way, and you're gonna put it forward, facing to an agent or a publisher. No, but for your purposes of your ideal reader, for your information to help you figure out how who your ideal reader is, and how to reach them. Absolutely 100 does not matter if you're Indy or traditionally published.

245
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:10.700
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Nice one. Okay.

246
00:52:10.720 --> 00:52:35.340
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: let's see so many good questions, so like every time we not quite often like 3, come in. It's great sorry. We've got one from. Oh, this is interesting elle, I think it's l do you create a read episode of one particular book or your entire body of work? What if you write in multiple genres, less sub genres.

247
00:52:35.810 --> 00:52:44.420
Sue Campbell: And I get this question almost every single time I present anywhere. So this is another really, really good one that people wonder about. So

248
00:52:45.730 --> 00:52:49.390
Sue Campbell: it? The question, is it? The answer is that it depends.

249
00:52:49.750 --> 00:52:54.400
Sue Campbell: So if you're writing in multiple genres and subgenres.

250
00:52:54.670 --> 00:53:06.670
Sue Campbell: maybe you can craft, one ideal reader who would hit across all of your genres if you can. Great cause. It's gonna save you time and effort and money right?

251
00:53:06.670 --> 00:53:26.899
Sue Campbell: Sometimes the thread is thematic, right? Like, I always write really strong female characters, or I always write about queer characters right thematically. You can make make that case for your ideal reader and focus it on. This is someone who always reads about this stuff rather than is married to one genre or sub genre.

252
00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:37.289
Sue Campbell: So if you possibly can make a really solid case for one reader who would love all of the different multiple genres and sub genres you write in great, do it.

253
00:53:38.160 --> 00:53:41.179
Sue Campbell: A lot of authors are not in that vote.

254
00:53:41.410 --> 00:53:56.720
Sue Campbell: so in that case they would want to create an ideal reader, persona, or one genre versus another genre. So a really great example. There's an author named Annie Barrows, and if you go to Annie barrows.com.

255
00:53:56.780 --> 00:54:13.899
Sue Campbell: she writes for adults, and she writes for kids. So the front page of her website is literally little cute illustrated sign posts that says, grownups this way, kids that way, and you click on one or the other of the sign posts, and you're taken to a completely different part of the website that's appropriate for you.

256
00:54:14.330 --> 00:54:38.570
Sue Campbell: Right? So again, if we have to create all of this marketing stuff, how can we create as little of it as possible to try to serve both things? So you don't necessarily need 2 completely different urls and 2 completely different website builds. You can perhaps partition it. Joanna Penn on her fiction site. Jf. Penn does a really good job of this, too, like, here's my

257
00:54:38.570 --> 00:54:54.369
Sue Campbell: dark thriller. And here's my whatever whatever right you can classify what some genres you're writing in and have people click on that as well. Sometimes they're so different. You're writing erotica. And you're writing children's books. You're gonna have to build 2 different websites and probably have pen names.

258
00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:58.910
Sue Campbell: But whenever possible you want to keep things as simple as you can for you.

259
00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:06.850
Sue Campbell: But you never want to try to really wedge an ideal reader in somewhere where they don't belong, either. So it's kind of usually a judgment call.

260
00:55:07.450 --> 00:55:32.780
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Nice one. Yeah. I was thinking, obviously within the room. Like, splitting between, maybe more of the clean stuff and more of the spicy stuff. Could you do something like that like having cause? Yeah, on your website. Yeah, you could have like, spice, like a you know, sexy icon for spicy this way and clean that way. And then everybody gets comfortable right away right now, like, Oh, this is for me. This is not for me. When readers get confused

261
00:55:33.140 --> 00:55:40.220
Sue Campbell: or anybody online, if you're online and you go to a website and you're confused about what is on offer. You just click away

262
00:55:40.520 --> 00:55:47.770
Sue Campbell: right? So the quicker you can be super clear about what you're offering, the greater your chances. That person will stay engaged.

263
00:55:49.040 --> 00:56:08.280
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Awesome. Nice one. I love that. So next one we've got another anonymous one kind of influence of your ideal reader. I'm curious what that means. But okay, so I know what I mean. So so let's trying to think of like a real life example. But I'm probably gonna have to speak in broad strokes for a minute.

264
00:56:08.600 --> 00:56:12.449
Sue Campbell: okay, let's say there's a bookstogrammer or a book talk person

265
00:56:12.980 --> 00:56:22.210
Sue Campbell: who is a huge influencer. Right? They've got millions of followers on Tiktok under the Hashtag book talk. That person is an influencer.

266
00:56:22.290 --> 00:56:27.949
Sue Campbell: If you know from watching that influencer that they would love your book.

267
00:56:28.190 --> 00:56:30.149
Sue Campbell: That's a great ideal, reader.

268
00:56:30.160 --> 00:56:40.899
Sue Campbell: right? So maybe your ideal reader, you can build out like my ideal reader is an influencer based on this one, but could be multiple people.

269
00:56:41.300 --> 00:56:43.420
Sue Campbell: The great thing about doing that

270
00:56:44.080 --> 00:57:08.540
Sue Campbell: is that you're immediately getting leverage. Because what do influencers do they share? Right? So if your ideal reader actually really does happen to be an influencer, that is great leverage, right? So like, for example, one of my clients is a therapist, and wrote a book about the overlap of mental health and spirituality, and we decided one of her ideal readers is also a therapist.

271
00:57:08.690 --> 00:57:28.039
Sue Campbell: So all of the person, all the you know, clients in that person's practice. That person is a little mini influencer. right? Because they have all of these potential patients who could benefit from reading that book. So that's a smaller example of an influencer potentially being an ideal reader, and that actually giving you more leverage right out of the gate.

272
00:57:28.590 --> 00:57:44.410
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Nice, awesome. We have so many questions we are getting close to the hour. So join my email list because we have more free webinars join the email list with the template. And then we have more free webinars. We can come and ask more questions.

273
00:57:44.420 --> 00:58:11.850
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: So I think, kind of

274
00:58:12.330 --> 00:58:19.319
is there a minimum cadence for your newsletter to keep people from unsubscribing? So that was Marissa.

275
00:58:19.630 --> 00:58:37.339
Sue Campbell: Okay? Great question. So we can't and can't make some magic perfect choice. That means nobody will ever unsubscribe. So that's the first pass of it. But still a really relevant question. I tell authors I don't want to posting or sending an email newsletter less than once a month

276
00:58:37.370 --> 00:58:52.640
Sue Campbell: because you tend to fall off the radar. People don't remember subscribing, and they'll hit the spam button in a worst case scenario, or they'll just forget, and they'll unsubscribe right, or they won't engage with it so once a month you don't have to go super crazy at least once a month.

277
00:58:52.900 --> 00:59:15.359
Sue Campbell: once every 2 weeks is even better. And then again in a launch. Yeah, I just talked to an author last week. Who's in our happily ever author club. And I was like, well, how many emails would be sent out like. Well, I already sent out that one I'm like, no, no, no, in a launch. We gotta send them more often than that. So normally, you know, once a month, at the at the least, and then it'll launch more frequently than that

278
00:59:16.420 --> 00:59:24.889
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: way more frequently than that. Yeah. Nice one. Okay, let me see if there's any others that are kind of

279
00:59:25.610 --> 00:59:40.649
quick. Quick! Let's see. Oh, we've had quite a lot of people asking about if the ideal readers is themselves, if that's okay. So I think we've answered that one pretty well.

280
00:59:41.000 --> 00:59:58.559
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: is there a different marketing strategy for a group that listens to audiobook as opposed to reading. That's from Rob. That's an interesting question. Rob, if that was the case, if you know for sure that your. You know that your ideal reader is an audiobook listener. I would really heavily concentrate on podcast.

281
00:59:58.790 --> 01:00:06.059
Sue Campbell: As the avenue to get in front of right because an audio listener in an audio book is also probably an audio listener and big consumer of podcasts.

282
01:00:06.440 --> 01:00:12.940
Sue Campbell: So I fall into that category for sure. Also, I find that people who it.

283
01:00:13.160 --> 01:00:33.879
Sue Campbell: Your ideal reader, can be someone who buys in multiple formats. That's very good for business, like I'm enough of a book nerd that I'll buy a kindle like I'll buy the kindle version just to see if I like it, cause it's Lower Price Point. And then, if I really love it, I'll buy the print book, and then, if I want to listen to it when I'm doing other things, I'll buy the audio book. So my favorite books I have in 3, 4 min.

284
01:00:34.050 --> 01:00:41.589
Sue Campbell: Right? So that's another thing to think about is, how do you get those super nerds who are willing to spend money on your book 3 different times.

285
01:00:41.810 --> 01:00:50.570
Sue Campbell: But if you know, you've got audiobook, heavy audience, really, leverage podcasts, because you're probably identifying them on a lot of other podcast audiences as well.

286
01:00:51.510 --> 01:01:13.769
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Nice one. Okay? I've got. I think I've got one more question that we could probably ask and while you're answering I will post the links in the chat again, cause I can see people asking for so this question, how do you initiate your newsletter email list. And where do you get those? I think that's quite, quite good question. Cause I'm not 100% sure.

287
01:01:13.910 --> 01:01:28.600
Sue Campbell: So is it still up on the page. I'm gonna read. Can you read it to me one more time? Yeah, yeah, sorry. So it's how do you initiate your newsletter email list. And where do you get those? It's it's quite far down. It's an anonymous. Okay.

288
01:01:28.950 --> 01:01:55.489
Sue Campbell: okay, it's actually a really big question, because it's basically the technical setup. Right? So I can give you the high level in a nutshell. You have a website. You're gonna sign up for an email service provider. Let's just say mailer light, for example, which I think is a really good one for authors. It's one that I recommend, not affiliated with them, but it's pretty simple to use. So you're gonna sign up with mailer light. They're gonna help you walk through, creating a form

289
01:01:55.520 --> 01:02:16.510
Sue Campbell: that you can then grab some code and put that over on your website. So now, someone lands on your website, they fill in the form and that will push that over to mailer light mailer lights gonna help you keep track of everyone who signs up for your list. And it's gonna give you an interface that will help you send out emails. You cannot do this through your regular

290
01:02:16.510 --> 01:02:30.380
Sue Campbell: gmail account. Your Yahoo account like there are compliance laws. I'm not trying to scare anybody. It's actually quite simple, but mailer light, and all those places will help you stay in compliance, and we'll give you a very easy way to manage that list.

291
01:02:30.410 --> 01:02:49.709
Sue Campbell: So that's the nuts and bolts of the setup. And then you can also set up a automatic welcome email. So as soon as soon as someone signs up you can send them an email confirming that and giving them the thing that you promised them. Right? So like, when you sign up for my newsletter today, you're gonna get an email that gives you a link to the thing that I promised you.

292
01:02:49.830 --> 01:02:59.550
Sue Campbell: Right? So you need to do that piece as well. That will really increase the chances somebody's going to sign up for your newsletter if you're giving them something valuable in exchange for it.

293
01:02:59.710 --> 01:03:13.630
Sue Campbell: But nuts and bolts really high level answer. But that's like A, you know, it's a little bit of a technical fun thing to unpack Youtube videos are there to help you? Your email service provider will have loads of videos on how to get started. So just dive in

294
01:03:13.640 --> 01:03:39.199
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: nice one. Awesome. Okay? Well, that's like, I say, unfortunately, that's all the time we have for questions at the moment. And the chat has been amazing. Everyone's been helping each other as well, which has been really interesting to watch. Thank you all for joining us, and thank you, Sue, for joining us as well. It's been some really helpful information for myself, and I know everyone else has been. Everyone's saying, Thank you now. So that's all great. So I

295
01:03:39.200 --> 01:03:56.149
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: thanks for everyone joining us on romance writers. Week I will be back again in about an hour's time. So I will see everybody there. But again, yeah, thanks for joining us, and everyone have a good rest of your day. If you're not. Thank you so much. Everyone take care.

296
01:03:56.420 --> 01:03:57.600
Sarah @ ProWritingAid: bye.