WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.360 --> 00:00:06.959 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Oh, yeah, we're already starting to see people coming in. So that's a good sign. 2 00:00:07.650 --> 00:00:19.050 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: hey, everybody, I'm Sarah from prowritingaid. Thank you for joining us today. If you can see and hear me, please drop your name and location in the chat. I'm just going to bring that up now to see if 3 00:00:19.400 --> 00:00:21.449 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: anybody is messaging us. 4 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.060 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Let's see 5 00:00:25.850 --> 00:00:49.130 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: nobody so far. But I'm sure everyone's just filtering in. So there we go! People have started saying, Hey, that's always a good, a good sign. We've got people from California. Wow! That must be early in the morning, and then we've got people from Netherlands, from Iceland, Rachel from the Uk. Jesse from Texas. 6 00:00:49.360 --> 00:01:07.480 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: We've got Alex from Scotland. Nice one. Okay, so we've got a nice group of people. Keep adding your names and locations to the chat before we get started. We've just got a few housekeeping items, so I'm going to go through those now. 7 00:01:07.630 --> 00:01:25.599 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: So 1st you can access your horror writers fest replays by going to the Hub page, you can find the replays along with other session materials posted within the session listings. The time it takes for this can vary due to the processing times on Zoom and Youtube, but they will be added as soon as possible. 8 00:01:26.170 --> 00:01:33.469 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: They will also be posted to our community page for all members to view. By November 1st 9 00:01:34.270 --> 00:01:58.269 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: all horror writers, fest participants, will receive early access to our upcoming Black Friday sale which will get you 50% off premium and premium pro plans for both yearly and lifetime. You will automatically receive an email with more information close to the sale. But if you do not receive anything by November 16, th please reach out to us at hello@prowritingaid.com. 10 00:01:58.310 --> 00:01:59.820 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: and we'll be happy to help. 11 00:02:00.290 --> 00:02:20.590 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: If you'd like to keep the horror writer conversation going, then we'd love to join you in our private online writing community. I cannot speak today. Joining is easy. You simply visit the link below, and then log in with your prowritingaid account. Info. Then you can hop over to the live event, chat to talk to other attendees. 12 00:02:21.390 --> 00:02:37.880 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: and then we would also appreciate, if you could please, provide your feedback on horror writers 1st in the type form survey that is linked in the chat. I'll drop that in a second, and on the hub for you. We love hosting events like these, and your feedback plays a pivotal role in our future planning. 13 00:02:37.880 --> 00:03:02.050 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: You can tell us what you love, what you think could be improved on for next time. What you'd like to see at a future event. If you'd like horror. Writers fest to be an entire week. For example, we also have a fun brand new writing challenge coming up called 5 K. In 5 days, where participants in our community will write 5,000 words or more. Between November 4th to the 8th 14 00:03:02.200 --> 00:03:29.359 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: we'll have daily teachings, writing prompts, discussion, forums, and even live write-ins that you can take part in. It's free to sign up, and we'd love to see you there. The sign up. Link will also be in the chat in a second, and it's also on the hub. I am also taking part in this, so I'm looking forward to competing friendly with you guys and trying to achieve these 5,000 words in 5 days. 15 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:53.550 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: So quick reminders for this session. If you have questions for our speakers. Please use the Q&A box. You can find that button in the center of your zoom screen if you'd like to chat with other viewers. Please use the chat and be sure to select everyone in the drop down, menu. Otherwise you'll end up just talking to us hosts and panelists, and then you can make it visible to all viewers. Otherwise. 16 00:03:54.310 --> 00:04:05.760 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, just have some fun in the chat, and we'll all I'll be hanging out in there during the the presentation as well. So we can all talk together 17 00:04:05.760 --> 00:04:28.869 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: links to your offers from prowritingaid, and our speakers will be available on the horror writers fest hub, and then I'll drop everything in the chat as well in a minute, so that looks like we are done with our slides. Let me stop sharing my screen and introduce our 18 00:04:28.870 --> 00:04:50.400 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: hosts for today. So today we're joined by Anne Hawley and Rochelle Ramirez Ramirez. I didn't actually check how to pronounce your name before this. I'm so sorry. So Anne is a certified, developmental editor of literary, historical, and fantasy fiction, and is the author of restraint, a novel of forbidden love in Regency, England. 19 00:04:50.400 --> 00:05:00.180 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: She was the producer and writer of the popular storygrid, round Table podcast and currently teaches and develops writing courses at pages and platforms. 20 00:05:00.380 --> 00:05:26.699 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Rochelle is a certified developmental editor who helps fiction and nonfiction writers structure and finish their projects. God, I need that. She is a co-creator of the story path, course, and numerous writing masterclasses. She is a co-host of the happily ever author club at pages and platforms, and the author of the forthcoming book the Adhd writer from frustrated to focused to finished. 21 00:05:26.700 --> 00:05:30.730 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: So thank you, Anna and Rochelle, for joining us today. 22 00:05:31.050 --> 00:05:31.840 Rachelle Ramirez: Thank you. 23 00:05:31.840 --> 00:05:33.503 Anne Hawley: Well, thank you, Sarah. 24 00:05:34.180 --> 00:05:41.439 Anne Hawley: welcome everybody. I'm going to just share my screen here and get started on the presentation. So just give me a moment to do that. 25 00:05:42.140 --> 00:05:46.660 Anne Hawley: and I think we're in the right spot here pretty much. 26 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:48.359 Anne Hawley: There we go. 27 00:05:48.500 --> 00:05:49.750 Anne Hawley: Okay. 28 00:05:49.780 --> 00:05:51.790 Anne Hawley: Rochelle, is it? Looking? All right? 29 00:05:53.520 --> 00:05:55.970 Anne Hawley: Okay, nodding good. I'm gonna 30 00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:01.080 Anne Hawley: turn off my video here, there we go. 31 00:06:02.180 --> 00:06:17.639 Anne Hawley: there we go, all right. Well, welcome everybody to the essentials of writing horror horror stories from pages and platforms. Excuse me, it is. I just want people to know it's it's 5 o'clock in the morning here. So if I'm a little hoarse. It's because I'm still working on waking up here. 32 00:06:19.220 --> 00:06:31.400 Anne Hawley: This is from the pages and platforms in the happily ever Author club, and we invite you to visit Storypathme Slash Hea to find out more. 33 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:34.709 Anne Hawley: You can learn about our other 34 00:06:35.210 --> 00:06:51.989 Anne Hawley: 6 story types. Horror is one of 7 story types that we talk about in the happily ever Author club and our story path course. You can learn about the other 6 in the story Path course, which goes into great detail about story structure and the horror story in general. 35 00:06:52.320 --> 00:07:05.639 Anne Hawley: So why learn this? I'm getting really annoyed at this outline. Here, there we go. Why learn this? What brings you to this presentation? Do you want to write a story that creeps into the nightmares of your readers? 36 00:07:06.440 --> 00:07:17.380 Anne Hawley: Are you unsure how to structure your story. Maybe you have some scattered scary scenes that aren't working together yet, or you'd just like to try your hand at something new. 37 00:07:17.450 --> 00:07:27.969 Anne Hawley: What exactly constitutes a horror story. Maybe you'd like to know what? What does it actually mean? How well you I'm sorry 38 00:07:28.490 --> 00:07:52.780 Anne Hawley: stumbling a little bit here. Sorry everybody. 5 o'clock in the morning. Give me a break. You're in the right place today. Believe it or not, you really are. We'll get. We'll get warmed up here in a sec. First, st we need to get at why, we read and watch horror stories in the 1st place. And why do we want to write them? Stories of monsters are part of every culture's mythology. They predate written language, and they're not just primitive superstitions. 39 00:07:52.780 --> 00:08:05.900 Anne Hawley: We've identified elements of the horror story type in Greek mythology and ancient religious texts, such as the wrath of the Lord, the fiery horsemen, the archangels in the Bible. 40 00:08:06.260 --> 00:08:21.250 Anne Hawley: or the menacing behaviors of supernatural beings in the Quran, such as Jinns and Shaitans, werewolf stories were popular in French medieval literature, such as Bisque, Clavray, Bique, Larel, and Mellion. 41 00:08:21.250 --> 00:08:39.399 Anne Hawley: There he goes! There's the Marion. Right there, in the 15th century, we saw the rise of what is considered the origins of modern horror, with stories emerging of war criminals, such as Wallachia, Vlad the 3, rd who inspired Dracula and Gilles de Ray, who inspired Bluebeard 42 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:50.699 Anne Hawley: in the 18th century. We saw the rise of Gothic horror and a dramatic increase in female writers and readers of horror which then dominated the 19th century 43 00:08:50.840 --> 00:09:03.470 Anne Hawley: in the 20th century with advances in publishing and the advent of film horror, literature boomed with ghost stories, mythical creatures, zombies, and the emergence of serial killer tales. 44 00:09:03.900 --> 00:09:20.760 Anne Hawley: In the 21st century we're still seeing increased innovation of timeless stories with mixed genres such as urban werewolves and vampires, Gothic fantasy, television series, romantic thrillers and children's horror adventures focused on the grotesque 45 00:09:21.430 --> 00:09:34.200 Anne Hawley: advances in science technology and sophistication don't eradicate them. We just write new horror stories about scientific and technological monsters in sophisticated urban settings. 46 00:09:34.890 --> 00:09:50.479 Anne Hawley: but because horror stories are so deeply embedded in human culture and history. They are very hard to innovate here. We'll reveal the secrets of the horror story type. So you can write a tale to surprise your audience and scare the socks off of them. 47 00:09:51.090 --> 00:10:04.739 Anne Hawley: Today you're going to learn what a working horror story is, what every story needs in order to meet the expectations of the audience, and how to incorporate all the essential elements of horror into your story. 48 00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:08.739 Anne Hawley: So what does it take to write a good horror stories. 49 00:10:08.820 --> 00:10:16.009 Anne Hawley: We've studied a horror masterworks and developed this set of story requirements. And we're going to tell you a lot about what we've discovered. 50 00:10:16.230 --> 00:10:21.570 Anne Hawley: But if you want to write horror. There's no substitute for studying masterworks of horror yourself. 51 00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:29.710 Anne Hawley: Masterworks are examples of the story type that provide guidelines. You want to understand and emulate in your own work. 52 00:10:30.130 --> 00:10:33.959 Anne Hawley: Finally, of course, you have to dig deep into your own fears. 53 00:10:34.680 --> 00:10:36.030 Anne Hawley: One caveat. 54 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:58.680 Anne Hawley: a market, ready manuscript, or screenplay is not going to be a 1 draft process. That's unfortunately a common fantasy. The presentation today will help you move from scattershot story parts to a story that meets the essential requirements of a horror story. Think of the information in this presentation as your blueprint for assembling your story parts into a solid structure. 55 00:10:59.050 --> 00:11:22.119 Anne Hawley: understanding the horror story type will provide useful tools that you can use to create a professional draft of a good working story. But also please bear in mind that everything we teach here at pages and platforms is a set of tools, not rules. Please don't let anything we share here today throw water on your creative fires. Take what you need and leave the rest. 56 00:11:22.190 --> 00:11:29.890 Anne Hawley: With that caveat. We believe that a solid story structure comes from understanding the essential components of the horror story type 57 00:11:30.630 --> 00:11:44.080 Anne Hawley: at pages and platforms we call the draft with a solid story structure, a professional working draft. It's the point in your writing where your story has all the following elements in place, and we'll go into them more in detail. 58 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:48.190 Anne Hawley: It has a protagonist with a definite arc of change. 59 00:11:48.560 --> 00:11:55.760 Anne Hawley: The protagonist and an antagonist are each pursuing conflicting desires aligned with the horror story type. 60 00:11:56.180 --> 00:12:03.230 Anne Hawley: There are clear stakes tied to the wants and needs of your protagonist that is, they have a lot to lose, and a lot to gain. 61 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.489 Anne Hawley: A strong premise will be reflected in every scene. 62 00:12:08.690 --> 00:12:16.889 Anne Hawley: and the story should be able to deliver the emotional experience your horror audience wants to feel and enjoy. 63 00:12:17.210 --> 00:12:26.680 Anne Hawley: and it should have all of the characters, settings, and essential moments that a horror story requires, and we'll go over most of these as we go forward here. 64 00:12:26.970 --> 00:12:41.079 Anne Hawley: The difference between that professional working draft and the ready to publish final story is most likely 3 or 4 more drafts, a full structural edit, a line edit, and a copy edit 65 00:12:41.470 --> 00:13:02.810 Anne Hawley: to understand how to write a horror story. Let's clear up some confusion around. What a horror story is! And isn't. It's horror! No matter the setting. What do we mean by that? Settings in any story? Are the landscape, the milieu and the type of world in which your story takes place. Some popular horror settings are fantasy. 66 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:08.230 Anne Hawley: science fiction, Dystopian war and Western 67 00:13:08.490 --> 00:13:24.530 Anne Hawley: fantasy stories are set in worlds where magic or the supernatural is real and an example is evil dead. 2. It's a movie which we're going to hear a lot more about later, where a mysterious force torments a man vacationing in the woods. 68 00:13:24.810 --> 00:13:40.799 Anne Hawley: science fiction stories go into the future or an alternate present generally involving advanced technology. An example is color out of space in which space and time unravel, as a hydrologist tries to prevent annihilation from a mutant meteor. 69 00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:55.550 Anne Hawley: Dystopian stories also go into a future usually showing our real world gone horribly wrong. An example is Zombistan set in 2030? That's not that. Far away in a post-apocalyptic India 70 00:13:56.320 --> 00:14:04.580 Anne Hawley: historical stories are set in the different world of a historical period. Like fantasy, historical settings have their own rules and world building. 71 00:14:04.700 --> 00:14:13.509 Anne Hawley: An example is the girl from raw blood by Katrina Ward, in which the haunting of a house traces back several generations. 72 00:14:13.990 --> 00:14:18.859 Anne Hawley: War stories are set in an environment or against a backdrop of war. 73 00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:25.489 Anne Hawley: An example is Trench 11, in which the monster is the master of biological warfare. 74 00:14:26.210 --> 00:14:39.910 Anne Hawley: These settings are important. They might make or break a potential reader's decision to read your book. Many readers, it's true, do make a beeline for the fantasy shelf at the bookshop or the Science Fiction category of their online bookseller site. 75 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:56.859 Anne Hawley: Each setting has its own rules, and you do need to know them. If you're writing in a fantasy setting, for example, you better be aware of the current trends in both horror and dark fantasy. You need to be reading in that area. You need to know what readers today expect and want. 76 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:09.129 Anne Hawley: If you're writing in a historical setting, you do need to do your historical research. But settings don't tell you very much about what you need to know as a writer to finish your story. 77 00:15:09.380 --> 00:15:13.880 Anne Hawley: Settings. Don't tell you what your protagonist wants, their desire. 78 00:15:14.050 --> 00:15:32.740 Anne Hawley: They don't tell you what the protagonist has to lose or gain. That is the stakes. They don't necessarily tell you how the character changes under pressure from the antagonist change. They don't tell you what emotions your audience will expect to feel when reading this kind of story. 79 00:15:33.420 --> 00:15:43.889 Anne Hawley: no matter how dark and foreboding your setting doesn't define the horror story type. You can use any number of settings, and the story type won't fundamentally change. 80 00:15:44.270 --> 00:15:50.040 Anne Hawley: Consider these different settings for various horror stories on a spaceship that would be alien 81 00:15:50.220 --> 00:15:52.280 Anne Hawley: in the ocean jaws 82 00:15:52.400 --> 00:15:55.009 Anne Hawley: in the woods. Blair Witch project 83 00:15:55.020 --> 00:16:00.909 Anne Hawley: at home, one br, one bedroom in a fantastical world, the girl from raw blood. 84 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:10.440 Anne Hawley: So what exactly is a horror story. Well, I am going to hand the mic to Rochelle, who gets to take over at 5 o'clock in the morning to take you through it. So Rochelle. 85 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.240 Rachelle Ramirez: That's great, all right, thanks, Ann. 86 00:16:13.350 --> 00:16:19.590 Rachelle Ramirez: Horror. Stories are essentially about a victim trying to escape an evil monster. 87 00:16:19.800 --> 00:16:28.090 Rachelle Ramirez: That monster is powerful, incapable of reason and empathy for the victims and intent on destruction. 88 00:16:28.170 --> 00:16:35.669 Rachelle Ramirez: The monster can be anything, a human sociopath, an animal, an alien, the undead, or a supernatural being 89 00:16:36.660 --> 00:16:43.030 Rachelle Ramirez: horror stories involve a protagonist who is a victim against impossible odds. 90 00:16:43.500 --> 00:16:51.650 Rachelle Ramirez: The horror protagonist is motivated by the stakes of staying alive and avoiding a fate worse than death, such as torture. 91 00:16:52.300 --> 00:16:57.489 Rachelle Ramirez: The horror story is what we call an outer or plot driven story type. 92 00:16:57.550 --> 00:17:08.149 Rachelle Ramirez: This means that the emphasis is on external events that are happening to the characters more than on the character's inner journey of change or growth. 93 00:17:08.630 --> 00:17:17.700 Rachelle Ramirez: The focus of the story is not on what is going on inside the protagonist's head, but is on the external stakes for the protagonist. 94 00:17:18.760 --> 00:17:34.929 Rachelle Ramirez: Some more horror examples are Toni Morrison's Beloved, in which the monster is the ghost of a dead child that haunts the mother. And note. There's a secondary monster of racism operating in this story as well. 95 00:17:36.370 --> 00:17:48.119 Rachelle Ramirez: The haunting of Hill house by Shirley Jackson, where the monster is an ambiguous supernatural entity that possesses a house, and eventually destroys the family that lives in it. 96 00:17:49.600 --> 00:18:08.249 Rachelle Ramirez: and the terror by Dan Simmons, in which a real life event of 2 lost ships in 1845 is reimagined as the crews are stranded in the icy Arctic struggling to survive, but discover the worst danger is a monstrous entity. 97 00:18:10.250 --> 00:18:11.879 Rachelle Ramirez: The final girl 98 00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:25.559 Rachelle Ramirez: support group is a novel by Grady Hendrix, in which 6 girls who survived devastating attacks, meet regularly with a therapist, and once again become prey for an unknown murderer. 99 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:32.769 Rachelle Ramirez: The horror story uses all the tools of good storytelling which means 100 00:18:33.450 --> 00:18:35.880 Rachelle Ramirez: your protagonist must have 101 00:18:36.070 --> 00:18:37.590 Rachelle Ramirez: clear stakes. 102 00:18:37.650 --> 00:18:40.649 Rachelle Ramirez: a defined want and need. 103 00:18:41.170 --> 00:18:43.890 Rachelle Ramirez: and a definitive change. Arc. 104 00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:46.070 Rachelle Ramirez: Your story must 105 00:18:46.550 --> 00:18:49.079 Rachelle Ramirez: have a unifying premise. 106 00:18:49.280 --> 00:19:01.410 Rachelle Ramirez: It must evoke particular emotions in your audience and incorporate the essential character settings and moments that horror audiences expect. 107 00:19:02.210 --> 00:19:04.739 Rachelle Ramirez: Let's look at how to make each of these happen 108 00:19:05.690 --> 00:19:18.549 Rachelle Ramirez: with the caveat that there's much more to learn about the horror story type than we can cover today. And the final element, essential moments, is more than we can cover in a single webinar. 109 00:19:19.340 --> 00:19:26.939 Rachelle Ramirez: If you'd like to learn more about the essential moments of a horror story, you'll find that information in our happily ever Author club. 110 00:19:28.090 --> 00:19:37.909 Rachelle Ramirez: Keep in mind, as we move forward, that we're going to cover horror stories with suggestions you can adapt to the kind of story you want to write. 111 00:19:38.750 --> 00:19:40.849 Rachelle Ramirez: So let's look at audience. Emotion. 112 00:19:41.910 --> 00:19:49.489 Rachelle Ramirez: audience. Emotion is what a reader wants to feel the reason they choose a particular type of story. 113 00:19:49.570 --> 00:19:52.889 Rachelle Ramirez: These emotions vary by story type. 114 00:19:54.140 --> 00:20:00.559 Rachelle Ramirez: The horror audience primarily wants to experience terror and feel courageous in the face of it. 115 00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:12.810 Rachelle Ramirez: The emotional range for the audience is terror, fear, excitement, relief, and a sense of victory at escape or vicarious bravery. 116 00:20:14.300 --> 00:20:39.080 Rachelle Ramirez: One tip I can offer you as an editor. If you want to create a terrifying experience is that you need. To be sure, there's tension between what the reader hopes for, which is for the protagonist to wise up, escape and survive, and what they fear will happen, which is the gore and the violence that the monster inflicts on secondary characters. 117 00:20:39.560 --> 00:20:48.270 Rachelle Ramirez: that tension pups blood into the undead heart of your story, and drags readers through the violence all the way to the end. 118 00:20:50.210 --> 00:20:54.370 Rachelle Ramirez: Horror has a specific character, wants and needs. 119 00:20:54.900 --> 00:21:06.510 Rachelle Ramirez: The horror. Protagonist wants to escape not only death, but a horrific fate worse than death, which is the torture the monster has the power to inflict. 120 00:21:07.230 --> 00:21:15.220 Rachelle Ramirez: The protagonist usually needs to find a clever way to outwit the monster, since they can't overpower it. 121 00:21:16.490 --> 00:21:28.470 Rachelle Ramirez: Think about Chris, and get out! Who wouldn't quite die if the monstrous people get him. He'd live on inside his mind, powerless to affect what they do with his body. 122 00:21:29.850 --> 00:21:41.499 Rachelle Ramirez: Think about Ripley an alien. She'd die if the alien plants its eggs in her, but before that she'd know that she was used to increase the population of monsters. 123 00:21:43.530 --> 00:21:49.580 Rachelle Ramirez: The stakes of a horror story are what the character has to gain or lose. 124 00:21:49.810 --> 00:21:53.930 Rachelle Ramirez: The higher the stakes, the greater the pressure on the protagonist. 125 00:21:53.980 --> 00:22:00.169 Rachelle Ramirez: until the cost of an action is so high that they have to take significant risks. 126 00:22:01.020 --> 00:22:05.120 Rachelle Ramirez: You want to escalate the stakes as your story progresses. 127 00:22:06.230 --> 00:22:08.700 Rachelle Ramirez: the stakes in a horror story are 128 00:22:08.990 --> 00:22:15.859 Rachelle Ramirez: death and eternal torment on one hand, and life escape and defeat of the monster. On the other hand. 129 00:22:16.800 --> 00:22:33.109 Rachelle Ramirez: the stakes force the protagonist on a journey with one primary mission that is to stay alive without torture, because if they don't, they will suffer death and the possibility of a fate worse than death. 130 00:22:34.570 --> 00:22:38.100 Rachelle Ramirez: The stakes must operate in every scene. 131 00:22:38.290 --> 00:22:46.110 Rachelle Ramirez: whether or not your protagonist is in every scene. The scene must have stakes for your protagonist. 132 00:22:46.610 --> 00:22:58.179 Rachelle Ramirez: and the stakes have to rise. The example. The protagonist starts out safe, and the risk of death and eternal torture should come closer and closer. 133 00:22:58.670 --> 00:23:04.850 Rachelle Ramirez: Any break in the rise must come from a sense of security that the reader can see as false 134 00:23:06.300 --> 00:23:13.879 Rachelle Ramirez: the stakes of a horror story run along a continuum from eternal torture to death, to danger, to escape. 135 00:23:14.010 --> 00:23:15.520 Rachelle Ramirez: to safety. 136 00:23:15.840 --> 00:23:18.000 Rachelle Ramirez: and to life or survival. 137 00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:32.999 Rachelle Ramirez: If you're writing a horror story with the stakes of life, death, and the possibility of torture, every scene should move the protagonist closer to escape and life or closer to death and captive torture. 138 00:23:33.390 --> 00:23:50.530 Rachelle Ramirez: So in one scene a protagonist trying to flee a monster on an island might find themselves in increased danger when the bridge to the mainland collapses, moving the protagonist farther from escape and life, and closer to capture and death. 139 00:23:50.830 --> 00:24:05.950 Rachelle Ramirez: In the next scene the protagonist might learn there is a tunnel to the mainland, but it's much farther away, moving them from near capture and possible death, and closer to the possibility of escape and life. 140 00:24:07.660 --> 00:24:12.110 Rachelle Ramirez: A story's essential premise is the message 141 00:24:12.150 --> 00:24:15.790 Rachelle Ramirez: your story will convey to your audience. 142 00:24:16.610 --> 00:24:23.299 Rachelle Ramirez: It's a cause and effect statement that comes directly from your protagonist's choices 143 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:29.400 Rachelle Ramirez: based on what they want, what they need and what's at stake. 144 00:24:30.300 --> 00:24:36.869 Rachelle Ramirez: Your premise is a sentence demonstrating the central idea of your story. 145 00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:40.090 Rachelle Ramirez: Your premise guides you as you write. 146 00:24:40.700 --> 00:24:49.700 Rachelle Ramirez: when you're not sure what scene needs to come next, or when you can't think what obstacles to put in front of your protagonist. 147 00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:52.689 Rachelle Ramirez: even if that dialogue is questionable. 148 00:24:52.800 --> 00:24:56.449 Rachelle Ramirez: you can consult your premise statement for help. 149 00:24:57.740 --> 00:25:08.629 Rachelle Ramirez: Horror stories put forth a message to the audience. For example, the boogeyman will get you if you aren't careful. If you don't follow the rules of society. 150 00:25:08.980 --> 00:25:15.750 Rachelle Ramirez: or we need ordinary people to become heroes to save the rest of us from terrors. 151 00:25:17.310 --> 00:25:22.929 Rachelle Ramirez: Some general premise ideas for horror stories are, and these are just examples. 152 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:28.669 Rachelle Ramirez: outwitting or escaping. The monster allows victims to avoid torture and death. 153 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:34.759 Rachelle Ramirez: and failing to outwit or escape, the monster leads to victims, torture and death. 154 00:25:35.890 --> 00:25:39.180 Rachelle Ramirez: Some other horror, premise ideas are 155 00:25:39.350 --> 00:25:41.380 Rachelle Ramirez: monsters. Test the week. 156 00:25:41.990 --> 00:25:44.110 Rachelle Ramirez: Evil demands courage. 157 00:25:44.340 --> 00:25:47.339 Rachelle Ramirez: cleverness leads to an escape from evil. 158 00:25:47.480 --> 00:25:50.370 Rachelle Ramirez: and teamwork defeats the monster 159 00:25:54.920 --> 00:26:02.819 Rachelle Ramirez: in writing horror. It's important to note that there are essential characters that create pressure for your protagonist. 160 00:26:03.160 --> 00:26:15.099 Rachelle Ramirez: Every story requires certain types of characters that are natural to the situation and not all character types work in all types of stories. 161 00:26:15.970 --> 00:26:28.070 Rachelle Ramirez: While an engaged audience might forgive a missing, essential character. You strengthen your story when you deliver the characters that are generally deemed essential for a horror story. 162 00:26:28.580 --> 00:26:32.489 Rachelle Ramirez: So you'll need a protagonist who is a victim. 163 00:26:33.030 --> 00:26:35.879 Rachelle Ramirez: an antagonist that is a monster 164 00:26:36.120 --> 00:26:37.980 Rachelle Ramirez: and other victims. 165 00:26:38.590 --> 00:26:41.900 Rachelle Ramirez: You need a seemingly powerless protagonist 166 00:26:41.990 --> 00:26:45.240 Rachelle Ramirez: who is one of the monster's potential victims 167 00:26:45.280 --> 00:26:48.200 Rachelle Ramirez: who is actively trying to survive 168 00:26:48.860 --> 00:26:58.230 Rachelle Ramirez: the protagonist, even if they're haunted or estranged, has characteristics or goals that the audience can identify with 169 00:27:00.860 --> 00:27:12.690 Rachelle Ramirez: in terms of antagonism. You need an antagonistic monster who won't give up their aim of devastation and annihilation under any circumstances. 170 00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:16.049 Rachelle Ramirez: and who can't be reasoned with? 171 00:27:17.290 --> 00:27:21.689 Rachelle Ramirez: The monster's power is vastly greater than the protagonists. 172 00:27:22.010 --> 00:27:26.289 Rachelle Ramirez: and the monster may be human, animal or supernatural. 173 00:27:26.790 --> 00:27:29.439 Rachelle Ramirez: And here's a quick tip on characters. 174 00:27:29.660 --> 00:27:41.439 Rachelle Ramirez: Let the audience experience the power of the monster, while emphasizing, empathizing with the victims. Again, 5 Am. 175 00:27:41.940 --> 00:27:47.679 Rachelle Ramirez: Make them both feel for the protagonist and enjoy watching them suffer. 176 00:27:48.030 --> 00:27:54.500 Rachelle Ramirez: It's important that the reader relates to the victim, and to some extent the monster. 177 00:27:54.540 --> 00:28:06.539 Rachelle Ramirez: You can encourage the audience's identification with the monster by giving all your malevolent characters believable motivations for their behavior. 178 00:28:07.850 --> 00:28:18.370 Rachelle Ramirez: The monster, in most horror stories is simply living out its nature. It wants to survive, eat, procreate, or defend its territory. 179 00:28:18.510 --> 00:28:27.510 Rachelle Ramirez: even in get out, which innovated on the conventions of horror. The human monsters are acting out of their desire to survive. 180 00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:31.679 Rachelle Ramirez: The innovation is that they're human. 181 00:28:31.790 --> 00:28:39.190 Rachelle Ramirez: They know right from wrong, and it is the evil of racism that allows them to proceed. 182 00:28:41.150 --> 00:28:45.090 Rachelle Ramirez: A horror story requires additional victims 183 00:28:45.570 --> 00:28:52.300 Rachelle Ramirez: who die or fall into eternal torment, demonstrating what not to do 184 00:28:53.350 --> 00:28:56.989 Rachelle Ramirez: their deaths reveal the monster's full power. 185 00:28:57.430 --> 00:29:08.379 Rachelle Ramirez: Also there must be something, a character or narrator news report who expresses their belief that the monster is unbeatable. 186 00:29:09.570 --> 00:29:13.730 Rachelle Ramirez: This character could be the protagonist or one of their victims. 187 00:29:14.870 --> 00:29:15.840 Rachelle Ramirez: All right. 188 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:23.510 Rachelle Ramirez: Now, back to those important settings, we've identified 5 essential components of a horror setting. 189 00:29:23.950 --> 00:29:36.649 Rachelle Ramirez: The 1st is that the setting of a horror story obviously has to allow for the existence of a monster places like the woods, a remote area, the ocean outer space under the bed. 190 00:29:37.570 --> 00:29:47.760 Rachelle Ramirez: The second is that the victims must have trouble contacting outside assistance. If the protagonist could quickly get help you wouldn't have a story. 191 00:29:49.090 --> 00:29:58.130 Rachelle Ramirez: The 3rd is that the environment must be a crucible that is not easy to escape, or is controlled by the monster. 192 00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:03.250 Rachelle Ramirez: The protagonist must have no real choice but to face the monster. 193 00:30:04.590 --> 00:30:18.319 Rachelle Ramirez: The 4th is that the setting is usually dark, claustrophobic, or like a labyrinth, allowing the monster to conceal itself from the victims as well as from the audience 194 00:30:18.500 --> 00:30:21.809 Rachelle Ramirez: while preying on its victims at will. 195 00:30:23.060 --> 00:30:25.429 Rachelle Ramirez: A quick tip on setting 196 00:30:25.710 --> 00:30:28.740 Rachelle Ramirez: is to mask the power of the monster 197 00:30:29.110 --> 00:30:37.049 Rachelle Ramirez: keep the monster out of view as long as possible, and progressively reveal greater levels of its power. 198 00:30:38.820 --> 00:30:49.019 Rachelle Ramirez: The 5th essential element is that the setting begins as ordinary for the victims, and becomes extraordinary when the monster attacks. 199 00:30:50.850 --> 00:30:58.429 Rachelle Ramirez: As we've noticed before, horror stories have essential situations. We've identified 8 that we'd like to share with you. 200 00:30:58.570 --> 00:31:07.750 Rachelle Ramirez: The 1st essential situation is that the 1st deadly attack by a monster puts the initial pressure on the protagonist. 201 00:31:08.770 --> 00:31:22.970 Rachelle Ramirez: The second is that the protagonist actively tries to survive. They can't just sit around waiting to be killed, perhaps pondering the afterlife. The protagonist investigates and finds out the truth behind the horror. 202 00:31:22.990 --> 00:31:27.210 Rachelle Ramirez: make them scared as hell, and doing everything they can to survive. 203 00:31:28.410 --> 00:31:33.759 Rachelle Ramirez: The 3rd is that lives depend on the protagonist defeating the monster. 204 00:31:34.870 --> 00:31:44.760 Rachelle Ramirez: The 4th essential situation is that even if the monster is human, the events of the story are improbable or impossible. 205 00:31:45.890 --> 00:31:59.209 Rachelle Ramirez: The 5th is that the story contains elements of suspense. Now suspense is a form of narrative drive where the audience and the character know the same amount. At the same time 206 00:31:59.260 --> 00:32:06.680 Rachelle Ramirez: the audience is kept in perpetual discomfort, because the monster attacks randomly and never rests 207 00:32:07.080 --> 00:32:10.020 Rachelle Ramirez: just like the protagonist. The audience 208 00:32:10.110 --> 00:32:12.499 Rachelle Ramirez: never has a chance to settle. 209 00:32:14.130 --> 00:32:24.999 Rachelle Ramirez: The 6th essential situation is that the protagonist is the final victim, the last survivor standing, or is among the few remaining survivors. 210 00:32:25.410 --> 00:32:28.540 Rachelle Ramirez: The body count, of course, varies by publishing house. 211 00:32:28.860 --> 00:32:34.779 Rachelle Ramirez: The characters killed can be agents of the monster, and the protagonist has to kill them 212 00:32:34.820 --> 00:32:39.769 Rachelle Ramirez: or the allies of the protagonist. The monster has to kill them. 213 00:32:40.790 --> 00:32:56.549 Rachelle Ramirez: The 7th is that there is a false ending. There must be what seems like 2 endings. Now this is likely a current trope that has become a predictable cliche. So you want to be innovative in how you use that false ending. 214 00:32:57.770 --> 00:33:06.710 Rachelle Ramirez: The final essential situation we've identified is that the monster is vanquished in the end, but not definitively. 215 00:33:07.300 --> 00:33:16.109 Rachelle Ramirez: If the monster is killed, there are offspring or others of its kind to maintain the possibility of more terror to come. 216 00:33:16.490 --> 00:33:28.979 Rachelle Ramirez: Leave the reader with the information that proves or implies that evil still lurks, so the monster may return. But where and when is left unknown. 217 00:33:30.090 --> 00:33:55.099 Rachelle Ramirez: and that brings us to horror's essential moments, which we prefaced earlier as an essential element of your story. That time constraints don't allow us to cover today. But just as a quick overview. There are 8 major movements in a horror story and 21 essential moments that horror audiences expect to experience, and you can learn more about those in our happily ever author club. 218 00:33:56.190 --> 00:33:59.880 Rachelle Ramirez: Now for some final suggestions for writing horror 219 00:34:00.190 --> 00:34:02.820 Rachelle Ramirez: in regards to pacing. 220 00:34:03.090 --> 00:34:07.860 Rachelle Ramirez: keep in mind that Aura requires the leanest scene, count. 221 00:34:08.650 --> 00:34:13.720 Rachelle Ramirez: and the most efficient scene turns within all story types. 222 00:34:13.830 --> 00:34:21.520 Rachelle Ramirez: But you must strike a balance between somewhere between writing like Hemingway and writing like Tolstoy. 223 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:30.970 Rachelle Ramirez: make your descriptions of settings, emotions, and thoughts as sparse as possible in action scenes. 224 00:34:31.580 --> 00:34:36.640 Rachelle Ramirez: Don't forget to give the reader a chance to catch their breath here and there. 225 00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:46.610 Rachelle Ramirez: don't be afraid to use humor, because if the reader alternates between laughing and screaming, you're probably on the right, mark. 226 00:34:47.969 --> 00:34:50.960 Rachelle Ramirez: and consider your use of gore. 227 00:34:51.050 --> 00:35:00.420 Rachelle Ramirez: Use your imagination in poorly crafted horror. Stories, sensational violence substitutes for imagination. 228 00:35:00.930 --> 00:35:06.840 Rachelle Ramirez: Unless you are writing a horror parody, you should write with the aim of believability. 229 00:35:06.970 --> 00:35:16.630 Rachelle Ramirez: You need to allow the reader's willing suspension of disbelief even in the dark and fantastical realm of the unreal 230 00:35:18.510 --> 00:35:22.650 Rachelle Ramirez: walk, the line between the explicit and the suggestive 231 00:35:23.230 --> 00:35:27.770 Rachelle Ramirez: allow readers imaginations to fill in some of the gore. 232 00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:33.640 Rachelle Ramirez: The best writers in any type of story collaborate with the minds of their readers. 233 00:35:34.910 --> 00:35:38.790 Rachelle Ramirez: Beneath the plot is the subtextual pacing 234 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:42.279 Rachelle Ramirez: tension arising from dread and revulsion. 235 00:35:42.550 --> 00:35:46.930 Rachelle Ramirez: Dread is a grim certainty that bad things are coming. 236 00:35:47.290 --> 00:35:51.569 Rachelle Ramirez: Revulsion is seeing how bad things unfold. 237 00:35:52.580 --> 00:35:58.180 Rachelle Ramirez: A good horror story cycles from dread to revulsion, to dread, to revulsion. 238 00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:07.360 Rachelle Ramirez: You gotta do the work because horror is personal. You gotta be stirred by your own writing 239 00:36:07.520 --> 00:36:12.449 Rachelle Ramirez: mine. Your fears for the material truth resonates with readers. 240 00:36:12.580 --> 00:36:17.089 Rachelle Ramirez: Think the dentist dolls, tunnels, clowns, antiques. 241 00:36:18.010 --> 00:36:22.320 Rachelle Ramirez: but don't be afraid to create new monsters. 242 00:36:23.350 --> 00:36:27.779 Rachelle Ramirez: Innovation in horror is critical and tough to do. 243 00:36:28.240 --> 00:36:32.489 Rachelle Ramirez: If the story theme is old, create a fresh and new payoff. 244 00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:37.210 Rachelle Ramirez: write what others are afraid to write by being bold and brave. 245 00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:41.700 Rachelle Ramirez: convey fear rather than telling your readers something is scary. 246 00:36:41.900 --> 00:36:45.100 Rachelle Ramirez: Your primary goal is to entertain. 247 00:36:45.130 --> 00:36:55.649 Rachelle Ramirez: In order to do so, you may have to dig the grave deeper than any writer before you, and write some really, psychologically twisted stories. 248 00:36:56.150 --> 00:36:59.239 Rachelle Ramirez: Whatever you do, don't pull your punches. 249 00:36:59.290 --> 00:37:04.120 Rachelle Ramirez: You're focusing on a dark subject that needs deep emphasis. 250 00:37:05.430 --> 00:37:11.379 Rachelle Ramirez: The best way to move toward innovation is knowing what others have already done. So 251 00:37:11.390 --> 00:37:19.090 Rachelle Ramirez: read thoroughly in the horror, story type and compare your work to the masterworks and the guidelines. Here. 252 00:37:20.250 --> 00:37:23.179 Rachelle Ramirez: Here are some masterwork suggestions. 253 00:37:24.030 --> 00:37:31.379 Rachelle Ramirez: If you're writing an uncanny story in which the monster is rational and explainable, such as psychopaths. 254 00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:39.430 Rachelle Ramirez: Frankenstein monsters, aliens, etc. Some masterworks might be alien Frankenstein, and get out. 255 00:37:40.030 --> 00:37:57.919 Rachelle Ramirez: If you're writing a supernatural story in which the monster is from the spirit world and can't be explained by conventional rational thought. Some masterworks might be the evil dead movies, the conjuring, the Amityville horror and the Blair Witch project 256 00:37:58.940 --> 00:38:14.349 Rachelle Ramirez: for possession stories in which the monster is a spirit or undead being that feeds on the living like vampire vampires, zombies, etc. Try the exorcist child's play and the vampire Chronicles. 257 00:38:15.310 --> 00:38:30.019 Rachelle Ramirez: If your monster is ambiguous, and could either be possessed by a devil or a sociopath with malintent, but we never really know. Some masterworks might be. Friday, the 13th saw. And Carrie. 258 00:38:31.940 --> 00:38:43.270 Rachelle Ramirez: okay, we get it. This is a lot to absorb. And of course you can watch this again. A recording will be available later today. But let's recap what you've learned today. 259 00:38:43.470 --> 00:38:47.310 Rachelle Ramirez: You've learned what a horror story is and isn't. 260 00:38:47.370 --> 00:38:52.080 Rachelle Ramirez: There are essential story requirements for a horror story. 261 00:38:52.450 --> 00:38:55.889 Rachelle Ramirez: Your story must have clear and high stakes. 262 00:38:56.700 --> 00:39:00.569 Rachelle Ramirez: Your protagonist must have a clear want and need. 263 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:05.830 Rachelle Ramirez: It must incorporate a definitive change. Arc for the protagonist. 264 00:39:06.430 --> 00:39:09.889 Rachelle Ramirez: Your story must have a unifying premise 265 00:39:10.070 --> 00:39:14.030 Rachelle Ramirez: and evoke particular emotions in your audience. 266 00:39:14.740 --> 00:39:21.540 Rachelle Ramirez: You've also learned to incorporate all the essential characters and situations of the horror story type. 267 00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:23.790 Rachelle Ramirez: You've gained 268 00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:26.990 Rachelle Ramirez: a list of masterworks to study. 269 00:39:27.040 --> 00:39:30.729 Rachelle Ramirez: You've received a structural framework for your story. 270 00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:35.210 Rachelle Ramirez: You now know the basics of the horror story. 271 00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:38.800 Rachelle Ramirez: And you have a plan to finish your story. 272 00:39:39.690 --> 00:39:54.550 Rachelle Ramirez: And remember, you can learn more about the other 6 story types and our storypath course, which goes into great detail about story structure and the horror story at Storypathme. Forward slash HEA. 273 00:39:54.960 --> 00:40:05.399 Rachelle Ramirez: In addition, if you think you might want. If you're at the developmental editing point in your manuscript, please send me an email at Rochelle, at pagesand platforms.com. 274 00:40:07.080 --> 00:40:12.109 Rachelle Ramirez: Okay? Let's move on to the questions and responses. 275 00:40:13.290 --> 00:40:18.050 Rachelle Ramirez: Thank you for joining us, and we hope to see you in the happily ever author, globe. 276 00:40:22.580 --> 00:40:23.510 Anne Hawley: Well, okay. 277 00:40:23.510 --> 00:40:23.860 Rachelle Ramirez: Okay. 278 00:40:23.860 --> 00:40:25.379 Anne Hawley: Shell that was great. Let's see 279 00:40:26.060 --> 00:40:27.049 Anne Hawley: Q. And A. Here. 280 00:40:27.326 --> 00:40:27.880 Rachelle Ramirez: Excuse me. 281 00:40:29.710 --> 00:40:30.349 Rachelle Ramirez: join a. 282 00:40:30.350 --> 00:40:52.079 Anne Hawley: Anonymous attendee says I was just wondering, have you ever come across a story where the structure starts at a tense peak? Yeah. You see that all the time, typically it will start at the tense peak, and then we'll backtrack to how we got there. That's not an uncommon story type that my favorite example of that, not outside of horror, but in stories in general, is like your crime 283 00:40:52.120 --> 00:41:16.749 Anne Hawley: TV series, where you know the characters. And we, you've been there before, and you tune in on an episode. And there are. Our heroes are pinned down by gunfire, and they're the bad guys are after them, and we don't know what's happened. And we just it's very tense and exciting, and their life and death stakes and then cut to commercial. And then we start the after the commercial. The series show begins with 48 h earlier 284 00:41:17.050 --> 00:41:22.753 Anne Hawley: how we got here. Right? So yeah, it it can be done. It's it can be overused. It's 285 00:41:23.640 --> 00:41:32.480 Anne Hawley: But yes, you you do see it. You see it all the time. But typically it does backtrack. Then to say how we got to this tense, high peak. 286 00:41:32.980 --> 00:41:51.950 Rachelle Ramirez: Yeah, my favorite is the opening of breaking bad, which is more thriller than horror. But definitely definitely my favorite. One cautionary note here, on opening a horror story at a tense peak. Tense, fine top, tense peak. 287 00:41:52.910 --> 00:42:01.349 Rachelle Ramirez: e oh, how are you gonna do? Because my question would be, How are you gonna do that without exposing the monster and showing the high 288 00:42:01.590 --> 00:42:21.099 Rachelle Ramirez: capacity of the monster what the monster is really capable of? When you want to move your reader from this is getting scarier. The monster's tougher than I thought. It's it's more powerful than I thought. You're wanting them to move up so in horror. I could see that being challenging. If you're going to the toughest, even if you're moving it 289 00:42:22.270 --> 00:42:25.799 Rachelle Ramirez: past the midpoint shift. I I don't know. That would be, it would be 290 00:42:26.750 --> 00:42:34.159 Rachelle Ramirez: I would. I would think carefully about that. You you want to keep the monster's identity up out of. 291 00:42:34.680 --> 00:42:35.280 Rachelle Ramirez: You're. 292 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:36.460 Anne Hawley: View, ma'am. 293 00:42:36.460 --> 00:42:41.909 Rachelle Ramirez: Out of view. Let your readers, imagination, fill all that in what scares them. 294 00:42:43.130 --> 00:42:50.320 Rachelle Ramirez: With few exceptions, there are exceptions to that. There might be a serial killer exception to that. I don't know 295 00:42:51.080 --> 00:42:52.500 Rachelle Ramirez: something to think about. 296 00:42:53.530 --> 00:43:08.739 Anne Hawley: Trina asks, What about psychological thrillers? Slash horror, like a serial killer who believes they are in love with their victim. Sometimes they can be reasoned with. Ultimately they typically succumb to their desires, but for a time they seem reasonable. 297 00:43:08.970 --> 00:43:13.899 Rachelle Ramirez: Hmm! I would wonder if that's if that's an action story failed, or 298 00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:21.539 Rachelle Ramirez: a psychological thriller that has a little bit more crime and action in it than an than an a 299 00:43:21.550 --> 00:43:24.144 Rachelle Ramirez: pure horror story. 300 00:43:25.070 --> 00:43:41.489 Rachelle Ramirez: you know. Thrillers often have they? They require some amount of horror. So that's I would I would wonder about that. But then you made a very, very good point here. But for a time they seem reasonable. 301 00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:45.289 Anne Hawley: Happened in, get out the monsters and get out seemed reasonable. 302 00:43:45.460 --> 00:43:47.150 Rachelle Ramirez: Yeah, yeah, so that's. 303 00:43:47.150 --> 00:43:48.070 Anne Hawley: Time. 304 00:43:48.070 --> 00:43:58.960 Rachelle Ramirez: Yeah, that's the most horrific thing. Yeah, that you don't know who the monster really is and what people around you who seem ordinary are capable of. That's frightening. 305 00:44:01.070 --> 00:44:04.859 Anne Hawley: Kim asks, what do you mean by lean scene? Count. 306 00:44:05.660 --> 00:44:06.800 Rachelle Ramirez: Yep. So 307 00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:22.750 Rachelle Ramirez: lean scene. So we talked about using. Don't use a whole lot of words, flowery language and action scenes. That would be a lean scene. When we talk about lean scene, count. It means you are moving quickly through scenes. You are 308 00:44:23.190 --> 00:44:31.220 Rachelle Ramirez: expanding scenes where needed, and you don't necessarily have as many scenes as 309 00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:54.210 Rachelle Ramirez: say, an action story would have. So a lean scene count, meaning, how far are you gonna push and stretch that fear of the monster before boom! Something happens right? And then how far are you gonna stretch that till boom, something happens. And you and the protagonist has to react. So is that an absolute requirement? No, is it 310 00:44:54.300 --> 00:44:59.339 Rachelle Ramirez: something your editor would be looking at? Absolutely. 311 00:45:00.470 --> 00:45:07.790 Anne Hawley: Just to give a counter example, say, you're right completely outside of horror. Say, you're writing a romance. You may have 312 00:45:07.810 --> 00:45:32.330 Anne Hawley: a scene here and there, which is just say, the character going through their internal thoughts about the love relationship or the relationship. A marriage story, something like that. You wouldn't typically have any of sort of that internal scenes in a horror story. So you would just not have those scenes that would be fewer scenes than you would find in a different type of story. 313 00:45:32.500 --> 00:45:55.425 Rachelle Ramirez: Yeah, let's talk about real quick. Why, that is because your protagon, your protagonist, doesn't have time to stop and think about, you know. Should they have married their high school girlfriend if they're running from a monster? Right? So I mean, I guess, unless the monster is the high school girlfriend who's come back for them? But I mean, even then, how much time does he have to think about it? Right? 314 00:45:55.790 --> 00:45:59.049 Rachelle Ramirez: you just keep that in mind that not much 315 00:45:59.130 --> 00:46:02.470 Rachelle Ramirez: trumps the whole idea of 316 00:46:02.640 --> 00:46:09.419 Rachelle Ramirez: and need to survive. What else do you focus on when you're starving? You focus on eating? Right? 317 00:46:09.450 --> 00:46:22.370 Rachelle Ramirez: What do you focus on. If your child's in danger protecting them, you know, like there, there are very few I can't think of anything more important, probably, than survival other than possibly honor. And that's a different kind of story. 318 00:46:22.650 --> 00:46:37.819 Anne Hawley: Right. Maya has a great question. Do these guidelines also apply to children's horror and effectively? Yes, children's horror may involve less actual death and more just danger. 319 00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:44.369 Anne Hawley: But yeah, absolutely, you need still need to hit the same marks with the same basic values. 320 00:46:44.940 --> 00:46:49.344 Rachelle Ramirez: I was thinking when we when I was going through this, I was thinking about how 321 00:46:50.110 --> 00:46:52.076 Rachelle Ramirez: Some of this would be 322 00:46:53.060 --> 00:47:10.356 Rachelle Ramirez: maybe probably needed a little bit more explanation for the younger readers like, for example, we talked about. It's very it. The setting, the setting needs to be someplace that the wood, someplace, that it's difficult for the 323 00:47:11.090 --> 00:47:17.239 Rachelle Ramirez: protagonist to get help. Well, what if it's a child story? And the monster is under the bed. In that case 324 00:47:17.330 --> 00:47:33.249 Rachelle Ramirez: it's difficult for the child to get help, because either they don't have access to an adult or the adult is ignoring them, telling them. There's they're silly, or the adult has already been paralyzed during a lot of stories where the parents have been killed off. 325 00:47:33.656 --> 00:47:41.949 Rachelle Ramirez: That's quite common that we start with an orphan or nobody cares about. Nobody listens. Maybe you could innovate on that, because 326 00:47:42.190 --> 00:47:44.790 Rachelle Ramirez: that's that's getting kind of tired. But 327 00:47:45.240 --> 00:47:47.189 Rachelle Ramirez: that's 1 thing to think about. 328 00:47:48.890 --> 00:48:09.650 Anne Hawley: Wendy wants to know. Does the happily ever Author club have other genres? Yeah, we, we, the story path course discusses 7 story types. Horror is one of them. Action, crime, horror, love, worldview, validation and redemption are the names of them, and we also have a whole section on your author mindset marketing your book, that type of thing. 329 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:20.610 Rachelle Ramirez: Yeah, and keep in mind. Genres might be. You know, genre is not an actual, you know, genres depends on who you talk to what it entails for most people. Genre is 330 00:48:20.620 --> 00:48:30.860 Rachelle Ramirez: where you would find your story in the bookstore. Is it dark fantasy? Is it supernatural fantasy? Is it horror? Is it? 331 00:48:31.848 --> 00:48:34.890 Rachelle Ramirez: Women's literature, whatever that means. 332 00:48:35.110 --> 00:48:36.560 Anne Hawley: Cozy mystery. Is it. 333 00:48:36.560 --> 00:48:37.870 Rachelle Ramirez: Children's right. 334 00:48:37.870 --> 00:48:38.490 Anne Hawley: Right. 335 00:48:38.490 --> 00:48:45.340 Rachelle Ramirez: Middle grade. Reader, comedy, what is it? You know? What is it? That's typically what a lot of people mean by genre. 336 00:48:45.600 --> 00:48:47.360 Rachelle Ramirez: Alright. 337 00:48:48.060 --> 00:48:48.670 Rachelle Ramirez: my. 338 00:48:48.670 --> 00:48:49.200 Anne Hawley: Awesome. 339 00:48:49.200 --> 00:48:49.820 Rachelle Ramirez: Blogs and. 340 00:48:49.820 --> 00:48:50.740 Anne Hawley: Analogs. 341 00:48:51.110 --> 00:49:06.250 Anne Hawley: prologues, and epilogues in horror. Yay, or, nay, generally speaking, prologues and epilogues. I think there's a pretty strong cultural, nay, on them. But a lot of people really like them. I'm not sure what purpose a prologue would serve in a horror story. 342 00:49:06.570 --> 00:49:09.829 Rachelle Ramirez: I got an idea. What if? Okay? So 343 00:49:09.860 --> 00:49:14.550 Rachelle Ramirez: the narrative device, right point of view and narrative device, what if 344 00:49:14.560 --> 00:49:22.339 Rachelle Ramirez: all the characters in the story are dead, and this narrator is telling you, maybe in the beginning about how they 345 00:49:22.430 --> 00:49:24.909 Rachelle Ramirez: became interested in say. 346 00:49:26.149 --> 00:49:31.099 Rachelle Ramirez: all those poor people who ended up becoming cannibals on that 347 00:49:31.290 --> 00:49:52.179 Rachelle Ramirez: icy mountain, or something, you know, and we open with the protagonist, with the I mean with the narrator, not the protagonist. And then he starts telling the story of what happened to these people, and then in the end he sums up something about how oh, it turns out all along that he was one of the 348 00:49:52.650 --> 00:50:06.699 Rachelle Ramirez: one of the people on there, or something, and he lied all along, or something that wouldn't be the prologue. But then the prologue might, I would leave the prologue off in that case. But I mean, I can see reasons why you might want to use that as part of the narrative device. 349 00:50:07.740 --> 00:50:35.430 Anne Hawley: But 9 times out of 10, when an author wants to write a prologue, it's usually because they want to tell some backstory that they feel like the reader really needs to understand before they can tell the story. And typically as editors, I think we both advise authors to consider carefully whether that backstory can't be hinted at in subtext throughout the actual story without resorting to a prologue. Again, I will say in some types of story, horror, probably isn't 1 of them. They're pretty popular. 350 00:50:35.430 --> 00:50:39.180 Anne Hawley: but I would tend to stay away from them, I think, by and large. 351 00:50:39.450 --> 00:50:50.840 Rachelle Ramirez: Often when I get a when I have a consultation with a writer, and they're saying, Oh, I have the story, and hey, I heard you said. You know you weren't too fond of prologues, I'll say, well, send me what you got, let's see. 352 00:50:50.980 --> 00:51:03.990 Rachelle Ramirez: And they'll say, okay. But I'm keeping that prologue in. Okay, go ahead. That prologue they send me is really just the 1st chapter. It's not. It wasn't a prologue. I. And often I'm looking at it, thinking, I don't know 353 00:51:04.390 --> 00:51:07.450 Rachelle Ramirez: why they were calling this a prologue. 354 00:51:07.470 --> 00:51:14.259 Rachelle Ramirez: so it might just be that what you think is your prologue isn't actually a prologue. It's just you're not thinking of it, hitting the actual. 355 00:51:14.260 --> 00:51:14.719 Anne Hawley: The one. 356 00:51:14.720 --> 00:51:21.079 Rachelle Ramirez: Hard from the beginning, but it might still be your opening ordinary world story. 357 00:51:21.080 --> 00:51:23.150 Anne Hawley: Yeah, set up for this story. Yeah. 358 00:51:24.030 --> 00:51:53.110 Anne Hawley: Anonymous says, how does one raise the dual ending, the false ending? I presume you mean, without seeming hacky or sequel, baiting a bad ending can take the piss out of an intense story in my reading experience. Yeah, absolutely how the story ends and how the reader feels when they turn over that last page is going to determine their rating, their review, their whole response to the story by and large I would say that the false ending has become pretty much of a 359 00:51:53.290 --> 00:51:57.519 Anne Hawley: cliche, and you might just consider not using it. 360 00:51:58.440 --> 00:52:01.390 Rachelle Ramirez: Yeah. And I would say, even, yes, and 361 00:52:01.630 --> 00:52:09.000 Rachelle Ramirez: we're still seeing it consistently even in get out, get out! Has a false in what is a false. 362 00:52:09.000 --> 00:52:09.899 Anne Hawley: True, it does. Yeah. 363 00:52:09.900 --> 00:52:10.980 Rachelle Ramirez: Right, and then. 364 00:52:10.980 --> 00:52:19.230 Anne Hawley: You think that he's kind of gotten away and captured? But one more bad guy rises from the darkness. And yeah. 365 00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:28.559 Rachelle Ramirez: Because he's so. He's killed all the white people, and then, holy crap! The the you know, the black people who were Co. Who were, you know. 366 00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:37.699 Rachelle Ramirez: tortured by the white people, are now after him, you know so, and then oh, by the way, his girlfriend, you know I mean, you know. 367 00:52:37.700 --> 00:52:38.810 Anne Hawley: Yeah, so it's like. 368 00:52:39.250 --> 00:52:41.299 Rachelle Ramirez: How many endings can you have there. 369 00:52:41.410 --> 00:52:50.889 Rachelle Ramirez: by the way, get out? Was one that they had a really hard time deciding what the ending was, and they tested multiple ones. And we're quite surprised at the one that they tested for Paul. 370 00:52:50.890 --> 00:53:12.499 Anne Hawley: That they wound up with, and also it pays to bear in mind with. Get out as an example is that in many ways it was a parody of horror stories. So it was using that cliche in a new way. So it's a good one to watch to see. It's a good one to watch generally, but it's good one to watch to see how they played with that the cliche and innovated on it to some extent. 371 00:53:13.409 --> 00:53:17.100 Anne Hawley: Anonymous wants to know how conceptual can the monster be? 372 00:53:18.210 --> 00:53:20.290 Rachelle Ramirez: What that means? Do you not have an idea. 373 00:53:20.290 --> 00:53:26.609 Anne Hawley: Well, yeah, like, if it's if it's a mind virus type of thing or something that 374 00:53:27.030 --> 00:53:39.851 Anne Hawley: that's an interesting question. I think. I mean, I think it's a really intriguing idea to make a conceptual monster, because then you're never going to see the actual. See the monster see the you know, fangs and teeth or jaws, or whatever 375 00:53:40.700 --> 00:53:51.569 Anne Hawley: and that would be really deeply psychological horror of some kind that, like in the realm of mental illness, or something like that. I'd have to know more about your idea. 376 00:53:51.570 --> 00:53:51.980 Rachelle Ramirez: To us. 377 00:53:51.980 --> 00:53:55.780 Anne Hawley: Attendee. Ambiguous 378 00:53:56.230 --> 00:54:01.490 Anne Hawley: Carrie. Yeah. How? Who? Who was the monster there? You know? What was that? That's. 379 00:54:01.490 --> 00:54:03.500 Rachelle Ramirez: And what was what was it? 380 00:54:03.850 --> 00:54:14.980 Anne Hawley: Right? Right? So yeah, you can carry off a very an ambiguous monster if you feel like you have the chops to do that. Sure, I think, that could work 381 00:54:16.367 --> 00:54:21.229 Anne Hawley: anonymous wants to know. Can a domestic situation be considered a horror story? Sure. 382 00:54:21.950 --> 00:54:43.269 Rachelle Ramirez: Sure. But let's keep in mind that what a domestic situation might be here, and is a domestic situation of like a spousal abuse situation. Well, again, remember that there need to be other victims of this person that can show the audience what this person is capable of, so in that case 383 00:54:43.440 --> 00:55:00.779 Rachelle Ramirez: the abuser would need to, we'd need to see them harm a child harm their previous ex or we need to learn the the say the wife would need to learn about the 3 previous exes that that happened to, and then 384 00:55:02.007 --> 00:55:04.569 Rachelle Ramirez: you could do it. Yeah, sure. 385 00:55:04.780 --> 00:55:05.499 Rachelle Ramirez: I'm trying to. 386 00:55:05.500 --> 00:55:12.160 Anne Hawley: Like the yellow wallpaper where the horror! It's kind of a domestic horror where the wife is committed to. 387 00:55:12.550 --> 00:55:13.010 Rachelle Ramirez: Hmm. 388 00:55:13.010 --> 00:55:18.310 Anne Hawley: I, yeah, I'm a little weak on that one. But yeah, I think you, I think that could be do could be done. 389 00:55:18.770 --> 00:55:23.170 Rachelle Ramirez: But it might turn closer to an action story than a you know life and death 390 00:55:23.520 --> 00:55:32.170 Rachelle Ramirez: rather than the possibility of eternal torture. How are you going to do that? Or how are you going to do the possibility of torture? 391 00:55:33.670 --> 00:55:35.560 Rachelle Ramirez: No, that would be tricky. It might. 392 00:55:35.560 --> 00:55:37.550 Anne Hawley: Psychological torture. Yeah. 393 00:55:37.550 --> 00:55:40.490 Rachelle Ramirez: Cry, you know it might fall more into action. 394 00:55:41.550 --> 00:55:48.260 Anne Hawley: At which is anonymous, says, what is the main difference between psychological horror and thriller 395 00:55:48.630 --> 00:55:57.480 Anne Hawley: and thriller is going to have an element of an action story, heroic, saving people, action, story and or crime elements where it's like 396 00:55:57.740 --> 00:56:15.189 Anne Hawley: outer, worldly criminal activity of some kind. So a thriller will be a combination of crime, action, and with horror elements where there is somebody trying to either solve a crime or somebody's committing crimes or crime is driving 397 00:56:15.750 --> 00:56:18.300 Anne Hawley: the action of the protagonist. 398 00:56:19.290 --> 00:56:21.730 Rachelle Ramirez: And a psychological horror would be 399 00:56:21.900 --> 00:56:44.570 Rachelle Ramirez: could be something that focuses on their emotional change. Arc, they're maturing as this is happening. They're having to make decisions moving from being naive to, you know, gaining more information to wise. It might have aspects of love story in it. Because, let's say, the psychological horror is 400 00:56:44.680 --> 00:56:50.750 Rachelle Ramirez: the boyfriend's, the serial serial killer, or something like that, and it would probably have 401 00:56:51.666 --> 00:57:07.359 Rachelle Ramirez: a little. It would have some action in there. Obviously, but it would follow the horror structure along with a little. You'd be throwing in a little bit of love, and you'd be throwing in a little bit of worldview in that particular story. 402 00:57:08.220 --> 00:57:12.590 Rachelle Ramirez: You would follow the story structure and then throw in those little bits. 403 00:57:14.160 --> 00:57:15.640 Anne Hawley: Cody wants to know. Are there any. 404 00:57:15.640 --> 00:57:17.110 Rachelle Ramirez: Oh, sorry 405 00:57:18.170 --> 00:57:18.710 Rachelle Ramirez: go ahead! 406 00:57:18.710 --> 00:57:19.570 Anne Hawley: Go ahead! 407 00:57:21.230 --> 00:57:25.700 Rachelle Ramirez: More space. Sorry in a thriller. You have more space 408 00:57:25.740 --> 00:57:30.850 Rachelle Ramirez: to elaborate on what else is going on other than life and death. 409 00:57:30.860 --> 00:57:42.989 Rachelle Ramirez: and the potential for eternal torture. Maybe you don't have, you know. Do you have each the potential of torture in the thriller? Maybe not. You don't necessarily have to have that. There. 410 00:57:43.380 --> 00:57:44.030 Anne Hawley: Right 411 00:57:44.410 --> 00:57:56.199 Anne Hawley: now, Cody wants to know if there are any Lovecraft stories that stand out structure wise. I am not a Lovecraft reader. If anyone in the in the audience is and wants to put that in the comments. Please go ahead 412 00:57:56.550 --> 00:58:22.469 Anne Hawley: so I can't we? I don't know. We don't know the answer to that. Maybe someone will in the chat any advice Emma asks any advice on how to recognize if I have too many characters in my novel for this genre. Thank you. My 1st response to that is, you says, if you suspect you have too many characters, you probably do. And the way to analyze that in any story type is what purpose does say? You're not talking about the protagonist here. 413 00:58:22.470 --> 00:58:35.720 Anne Hawley: What purpose does this character serve in the protagonist's arc of change, and if you have more than one character serving the same purpose, consider combining them into a single character. That would be a standard piece of advice. 414 00:58:36.140 --> 00:58:37.000 Anne Hawley: but 415 00:58:38.100 --> 00:58:41.560 Anne Hawley: fewer characters is generally better. 416 00:58:41.570 --> 00:58:48.109 Anne Hawley: Readers have a hard time keeping track of large casts of characters just by and large, but it's 417 00:58:48.140 --> 00:58:56.209 Anne Hawley: going to change depending on. You know what kind of story you're telling, but the basic sense is. 418 00:58:56.390 --> 00:59:16.869 Anne Hawley: if I kind of think I have too many characters or beta readers have told me I have too many characters. Yeah, you probably have too many characters, and the way to cut them down is to say, what purpose are they serving? Is this one serving as a confidant to the protagonist? Does the protagonist need more than one confidant, more than one mentor, more than one Herald character. Who's out there? Being the narrator and explaining the world that sort of thing. 419 00:59:18.160 --> 00:59:25.440 Rachelle Ramirez: I would say, keep in mind that every character you have you need to introduce, and every character you have needs to have a purpose. And 420 00:59:25.720 --> 00:59:34.219 Rachelle Ramirez: so, if you're, I agree with Anne, if you're asking the question, the answer is, you probably have too many. What can you eliminate? Because if you're writing horror. 421 00:59:34.350 --> 00:59:39.369 Rachelle Ramirez: lean, think, lean, lean, lean, what can you eliminate? 422 00:59:39.820 --> 00:59:47.240 Rachelle Ramirez: Look at your 3 favorite horror stories at what they have in common! How many characters they have 423 00:59:47.290 --> 01:00:01.139 Rachelle Ramirez: what the structure is for that story. It'll probably tell you a lot about what it is you're trying to write something similar to. That is probably what you're doing. So look at that for clue. Look at those 3, your top 3 horror 424 01:00:01.220 --> 01:00:03.220 Rachelle Ramirez: stories for your clues. 425 01:00:03.910 --> 01:00:16.669 Anne Hawley: And I am sorry to say it, because we have a ton of questions that we haven't been able to get to. There's still 10 more in the Q. And a. But we are out of time. So thank you, everybody for a great set of questions, and for being here. And thank you, Sarah. 426 01:00:17.350 --> 01:00:17.990 Rachelle Ramirez: Thank you. 427 01:00:17.990 --> 01:00:42.899 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you, Anne and Rochelle, for joining us and giving us that amazing presentation, and answering quite a lot of questions, considering how many we had. I have learned a lot from that. I think I'm going to have to rewatch the replay because it went through quite quickly so, but a lot of food for thought. Thank you, everybody, for joining us and sharing all of your thoughts in the chat. It was very interesting 428 01:00:42.900 --> 01:00:54.149 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: to see. And I hope you guys enjoy the rest of horror writers. First, st I'm just going to pop the links in the chat once again, in case you guys don't see it. 429 01:00:54.230 --> 01:00:59.980 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: and I hope you guys join us again in an hour. And again, thank you to Anne and Rochelle. 430 01:01:00.250 --> 01:01:01.410 Rachelle Ramirez: Thank you. Everybody. 431 01:01:01.410 --> 01:01:02.530 Sarah @ ProWritingAid: Bye. 432 01:01:02.720 --> 01:01:03.680 Anne Hawley: Bye.