WEBVTT 1 00:00:24.500 --> 00:00:26.549 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Welcome everyone 2 00:00:26.570 --> 00:00:40.019 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: again. I see so many people filtering in already. That's amazing. If you can see and hear me, please drop your name and location into the chat, so that we know that everything is working correctly. 3 00:00:40.230 --> 00:00:43.250 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and we will get started in just a moment. 4 00:00:44.480 --> 00:00:55.589 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Oh, I see we have so many locations. Maryland, Canada, North Wales, England. Idaho, Tennessee. Texas, Louisiana, Bermuda. 5 00:00:55.640 --> 00:01:04.720 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Nova Scotia. Amazing love! Seeing such an international crowd as always, and it looks like everything is working just fine. 6 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:27.749 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Welcome, welcome. We are going to go through just a couple of slides to go over some housekeeping items, and then we will dive right into our first session. But welcome to romance writers. Week. We are so happy that you're here. I'm Michelle from pro writing aid. Many of you may already be familiar with me. Many of you may be new and welcome. We're so glad to have you 7 00:01:28.690 --> 00:01:54.769 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: first up. Replays for this week will be located onto the Hub page, and I'm going to drop that link for you in the chat in just a moment. We will get the replays up as soon as we can. There is a little bit of processing time with Zoom and Youtube and everything. So everything for today will be up by tomorrow morning at the latest, but we will have any available slides there. Audio transcript files and the replays so that you can watch them. 8 00:01:54.780 --> 00:02:12.039 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and they will be on the Hub page until March first, so everyone can access Monday through Thursday's replays until March first on the hub. After this date the replays will be made available for premium and premium pro pro rating aid members only. 9 00:02:12.320 --> 00:02:27.419 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and Friday is our premium day this year. So Monday, through Thursday, sessions are free for anyone to attend. Friday. Sessions are limited to premium and premium pro users, but if you would like to upgrade, you can use a special offer that we have for you this week. 10 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:38.069 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: And you will. If you are premium or premium pro user already, you will receive instructions for joining premium day in your email Friday morning. Keep an eye out for that. 11 00:02:38.960 --> 00:03:06.749 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and your offer this time is 25% off yearly premium or premium pro subscriptions. So you can find all the details for that on the Hub page, as well as the link to access that discount, and on the hub page upgrading allows us to keep doing sessions like these for you for free. So if you are interested in trying out pro writing a premium or premium pro now is a great time to do so. 12 00:03:08.570 --> 00:03:29.969 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and if you would like to keep the romance writing, conversation going, we would love to have you in our private online writing community joining is very easy. You just log in with your pro rating aid account information, and then you can go over to the live event chat, and you'll see conversations already taking place. And there's a lot of folks there already, so we would love to have you there. 13 00:03:30.990 --> 00:03:55.010 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Reminders for this session and all of our sessions. If you have a question for the speaker, please use the Q&A box, as you can see, the chat moves very quickly, and it is hard to keep up with questions posted there, so feel free to chat amongst yourselves in the chat. But then, if you have questions for me or for Lucy. Please put them in the Q. And a. So that we can try to get to as many of those as we can. 14 00:03:56.500 --> 00:04:22.750 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Also all of your offers from there are speakers and from pro writing aid as I said, are found on the hub. So the Hub has everything that you need, so I will drop those links to to the hub in just a moment, and we are going to kick things off with Lucy. So once again, thank you for joining us today I'm Michelle with pro writing aid, and I'm so happy to see you all here. 15 00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:46.179 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and I am so happy to introduce our first speaker of the week. Lucy V. Hay. Lucy is a script editor, author, and blogger, who helps writers. She has written 3 non fiction books about writing based on her lengthy time. As a script. Reader publishes part of camera books, creative essentials range. In addition, she is an experienced novelist, publishing under her own name and the pseudonym, Lizzie Frey. 16 00:04:46.180 --> 00:05:05.159 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Her first novel is Lizzie. The Coven Sphere has been translated into 5 languages, and her latest is the good mother with Joss books. with her next book out in 2024. Actually, that is out this week, just in time for Valentine's day. She also has 2 novels under option for adaptation as a movie and a TV series. 17 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:26.369 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: She's been a script reader and script editor for 20 years providing coverage for literary agents, indie production companies, investors, screen agencies, producers, directors, and individual writers. Her site bang to write.com is a very large online platform has been spotlighted in writers, digest and been on the right. Life's top. 100 sites for writers 5 years in a row 18 00:05:26.370 --> 00:05:48.650 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: is also been a Uk blog awards finalist in Feedspots. Number one screenwriting blog in the Uk tenth in the world. The new book that she has is a steamy romance out just in time for Valentine's day under the pseudonym mia rider, and it is titled sex die. Repeat, so be sure to check that out. Welcome, Lucy, thank you for being with us today. 19 00:05:48.650 --> 00:06:11.609 Lucy V Hay: Well, thank you very much for having me, and thank you very much for that. Introduction. I really appreciate it especially telling everyone about my new book. Cause, of course, steamy romance is always something that I love to read ahead of Valentine's Day so hopefully people here will wanna check it out over on Amazon, cause it's on a special preorder price at the moment. 20 00:06:11.870 --> 00:06:18.789 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Absolutely, I'm going to go ahead and just slink into the background and learn with everybody else. And, Lucy, you go ahead and take it away. 21 00:06:18.890 --> 00:06:36.910 Lucy V Hay: Okay, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. So let's get started. Shall we, with our slideshow cause what I'm going to do is I am going to offer oh, I'm at the end. Hang on 1 s I'm going to offer 22 00:06:37.740 --> 00:06:51.639 Lucy V Hay: Presentation on writing romance, and then I will be obviously answering questions about writing romance as well. So sorry about that. I was at the end of my presentation. For some reason. There. 23 00:06:51.700 --> 00:06:53.680 Lucy V Hay: get back towards the beginning. 24 00:06:55.140 --> 00:06:59.280 Lucy V Hay: Okay. so let's go. 25 00:07:00.890 --> 00:07:31.020 Lucy V Hay: My presentation is titled boy meets girl all about writing romance. obviously, you can find lots of really great resources for writing romance over@bankorite.com. As you can see here. There's also a free masterclass on characterization that you can sign up for there as well. There's a free ebook on writing female characters. There's various checklists for writing. For your screenplay or your novel as well. 26 00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:55.990 Lucy V Hay: Of course you can always get in contact with me as well, via email, as you can see here and do join us on the Facebook page in particular cause, although I'm everywhere online on most social media. That's probably the place where it's most engaged. And of course, if you want moving forwards, if you're interested in joining us in my bank to write Academy, which is a paid off. 27 00:07:55.990 --> 00:08:12.739 Then by all means drop me an email and we can chat about that, and whether the Academy is right for you, because we've got a lot of authors in there. Got a lot of screenwriters, filmmakers, a lot of people who do both. And we have a lot of master classes in there, and Q. A's and 28 00:08:12.870 --> 00:08:15.560 Lucy V Hay: community going on. Okay. 29 00:08:15.690 --> 00:08:19.070 Lucy V Hay: so boy meets girl. 30 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:30.360 Lucy V Hay: So first things first, I'm gonna drop the drop in the chat for me. What is romance? What is romance to you? Because, of course, when we think about romance 31 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:38.649 Lucy V Hay: and our ideal partner. I mean, not all of us even want that. But if we do. 32 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:59.159 Lucy V Hay: chances are what I like, and what I find romantic and sexy is probably different to what you think is romantic and sexy. So drop in the chat for me. What is romance to you? Because, as we can see, there's lots and lots of different types of story here. I mean, you got the classics 33 00:08:59.160 --> 00:09:13.689 Lucy V Hay: Romeo and Juliet probably seen as one of the biggest romances ever. But of course it's incredibly tragic, you know. They both die at the end. So tragedy and romance sometimes go together 34 00:09:13.720 --> 00:09:17.239 Lucy V Hay: equally. We've got pride and Prejudice another classic here. 35 00:09:17.970 --> 00:09:19.730 You know. 36 00:09:20.300 --> 00:09:30.029 Lucy V Hay: Some say that it's quite comedic, you know, comedy of manners, others it's, you know, and and absurd things that people have to do in the name of love. 37 00:09:30.370 --> 00:09:46.730 Lucy V Hay: you know. That's that's something you've got a steamy romance here called. If you were mine and steamy romance is something that a lot of people enjoy. I'm one of those people. Sometimes people call it erotica, and it figures more on the kind of 38 00:09:47.100 --> 00:10:01.740 Lucy V Hay: sex element. And of course, for those of us who are very interested in reading sex or watching sex or doing sex. This kind of thing can be really up your alley. Then you've got twilight. Another classic. 39 00:10:01.750 --> 00:10:18.379 Lucy V Hay: I mean, twilight is basically Romeo and Juliet with a vampire. I mean, it's it's, you know, regardless of how we feel personally about the writing or or the thematics of twilight. You know, it's concept gold. Basically, this one here is a dark romance 40 00:10:18.650 --> 00:10:36.429 Lucy V Hay: doing very, very well on Tik Tok at the moment haunting Adeline is something that has really taken tick tock by storm. Another one that's a big tick. Tock thing is is red, white, and royal blue. So you've got so you know, a love story here, featuring bisexuality. 41 00:10:36.590 --> 00:10:38.530 Lucy V Hay: got the the notebook. 42 00:10:38.680 --> 00:10:54.500 Lucy V Hay: which is a historical kind of look at romance, and was huge in its day and became a massive movie starring, Ryan Gosling and Rachel Mcadam. Then we've got Sarah J. Masse who combines fantasy with 43 00:10:54.690 --> 00:10:55.840 Lucy V Hay: a 44 00:10:55.890 --> 00:11:20.560 Lucy V Hay: with romance a lot. I did something similar here within the Coven, although it was a fantasy thriller. I had a big romance in it. Because I love love, why not? And then also, there's such a thing as romantic suspense as well. So again, it's kind of riffing off this dark romance kind of idea, this notion that maybe the person that you're with is actually 45 00:11:20.560 --> 00:11:26.460 dangerous, and you know what you do in that kind of scenario. And I did that as well with 46 00:11:26.530 --> 00:11:50.219 Lucy V Hay: the other twin. So here's a couple of my books. I've got the steamy romance out this week as well called sex die. Repeat so guess I guess, for me personally. So these are some of my favorite romances, either because I just love the concept or because I really like the characters or I liked what was going on on a thematic level or 47 00:11:50.670 --> 00:11:54.479 Lucy V Hay: so, what is romance like for you? 48 00:11:54.640 --> 00:12:11.690 Lucy V Hay: Okay? So let's have a quick look at the chat. Okay, chemistry and connections, says Noreen. Victoria says, 2 brought together because of time and season finding themselves in one another and pulling something new in each other. A werewolf. Somebody says. 49 00:12:11.690 --> 00:12:35.189 Lucy V Hay: 50 shades of grey, the 4 loves connection, attraction, growth, being seen and accepted completely, and hope for who they are, says Denna. Jules says, romance is a love story that takes readers on a whirlwind. The vulnerability, emotion and toe curling scenes. Kathleen says, the autistic portrayal of the world is, it couldn't ought to be 50 00:12:35.190 --> 00:12:57.689 Lucy V Hay: like that is says romance is a combination of love, lust, thrill, growth, tragedy, and comedy. It depends on the story and the characters, and I think I agree with that one the most definitely. I think it. I mean, romance can be anything that it genuinely can, because what people find satisfying in their relationships. 51 00:12:57.820 --> 00:13:03.940 Lucy V Hay: whether that's literally, emotionally, romantically, it's it's 52 00:13:04.270 --> 00:13:11.810 Lucy V Hay: very personal, very, very personal. So there's no right or wrong answer when it comes to romance. 53 00:13:13.620 --> 00:13:36.649 Lucy V Hay: But, put simply, I would say that romance goes with absolutely everything. It doesn't matter what the genre is, what the subgenre is, what the type of story is, you could conceivably put romance in it, because romance is something that you know and loves loves stories just generally, whether those romances are 54 00:13:36.810 --> 00:13:41.200 Lucy V Hay: romantic or Platonic. 55 00:13:41.520 --> 00:14:07.350 Lucy V Hay: you know, relationships are really, really important, really important to humans. Ok, yes, of course, people may want to live in a more lone wolf type of way. They may not want to have their own family. They may not want to get married any of those things, you know. They may want to go off on their own, and that's obviously fine. But the average human 56 00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:31.049 Lucy V Hay: is somebody who's probably going to have a number of relationships around them, and one of which of those relationships is probably going to be romantic on some level. Okay? And so as a result, romance then, can go with pretty much anything you know, whether it's books, whether it's movies, whether it's television, they cross pollinate one another. It's no accident 57 00:14:31.050 --> 00:14:39.239 that a lot of the books that I just showed you were made into movies or made into series on Netflix. Things like that. 58 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:40.290 Lucy V Hay: because 59 00:14:40.290 --> 00:15:00.900 Lucy V Hay: the average human being is interested in romance. Even those who think they're not interested in romance, because those of us who maybe like darker stories, are interested in romance in terms of what I was talking about earlier, this notion of dark romance or relationships gone wrong. 60 00:15:01.160 --> 00:15:09.169 Lucy V Hay: You know people are very, very interested, not just in romance and happy ever afters, but also in terms of 61 00:15:09.270 --> 00:15:38.129 Lucy V Hay: when relationships and romantic relationships in particular go wrong. For whatever reason. Now, romance goes with absolutely everything, and it's even more true in the 20 twenties that books, movies, and Tvs kind of kind of cross pollinate one another because of the streaming model. Adaptation is big business right now, and romance is incredibly popular, because most people love love. 62 00:15:38.460 --> 00:16:02.859 Lucy V Hay: That's just a fact. As human beings, we are part of a herd or a pack. Generally speaking, most of us will create these or recreate these packs or herds within our own lives. Okay, we may make make our own families and have children, and do the kind of classic kind of you know, family kind of situation. Alternatively. 63 00:16:02.860 --> 00:16:19.600 Lucy V Hay: You, you know, you may may swerve that we might get married anyway, because you want to be with one person for the rest of your life. Other people. They might be interested in things like polyamory and create, you know, a more alternative kind of view of family that way. 64 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:21.749 Lucy V Hay: you know, I mean, basically. 65 00:16:22.170 --> 00:16:46.849 Lucy V Hay: it can be anything. You know. People from Lgbtq backgrounds may have children. And you know, from surrogacy, adoption, and so on, and so forth. And basically, what I'm saying is, there is no right or wrong answer to romance, because there's no right or wrong answer to loving somebody or multiple people. You know. Bangs, right is is progressive and and 66 00:16:47.320 --> 00:17:11.720 Lucy V Hay: values the different kind of relationships there are, as far as I'm concerned, making moral judgments on people's love is wrong. I think I think that's as long as everybody's consensual. As long as everybody has. You know, similar amounts of power and agreement and all of that kind of stuff. Then I'm all for it. I love love. 67 00:17:12.190 --> 00:17:31.970 Lucy V Hay: Okay, plus, of course, romance goes with all other genres, as I've mentioned already, even, and I've said especially dark stuff, you know. I mean, sometimes one of the best things a character can do is fight for love, even in the face of terrible things happening. 68 00:17:31.970 --> 00:17:43.339 Lucy V Hay: Otherwise, you know whether that's related to the relationship itself, or whether that's related to the bigger part of the story. Then, you know, fighting for love 69 00:17:43.340 --> 00:18:01.460 Lucy V Hay: in those kind of odds can be very, very appealing to a lot of people in the audience, or a lot of people who are reading, because lots of us have to go through traumatic things in our lives, or at least advertise adversity. That is very problematic. And lots of us do that 70 00:18:01.550 --> 00:18:18.810 Lucy V Hay: because we want to set a good example for our children, or we want to save our marriage, or we want to save the world because we love it, you know. So on and so forth. You know, love is so powerful. 71 00:18:18.810 --> 00:18:38.089 And I think sometimes as writers, we kind of play it down too much. It's like relationships are so key. They're the lifeblood of stories because they're the lifeblood of our lives. And I think sometimes we can kind of look at love stories a little bit too 72 00:18:38.370 --> 00:18:40.760 Lucy V Hay: superficially sometimes. 73 00:18:41.020 --> 00:19:03.679 Lucy V Hay: Okay. But first things first. Why don't some people like romance? Well, some people think that it's a feminist issue, and some people think that romance is full of stereotypes, and they wouldn't be wrong, you know. It's very galling when women are defined by the relationships in their lives. That's true, you know I'm a mother, and I'm a wife. 74 00:19:03.870 --> 00:19:06.220 Lucy V Hay: But I'm so much more than that. 75 00:19:06.850 --> 00:19:20.720 Lucy V Hay: you know, and I don't want to be defined as my my partner's wife. No, thank you. You know I'm a strong, independent woman. I love my family, I love them so much, but 76 00:19:20.790 --> 00:19:30.009 Lucy V Hay: they aren't me. I'm not defined by them. I am defined as me. Personally, Lucy V. Hay. 77 00:19:30.050 --> 00:19:53.610 Lucy V Hay: Okay, so I understand why some women in particular think that romance is a feminist issue, and they say that they won't read it because of all these stereotypes, and certainly there was a long period in which it was way too stereotypical, because female characters in particular were nearly always cast, as the love interest in a very reductive way. 78 00:19:53.960 --> 00:20:01.519 But, like most archetypes, being a love interest, doesn't necessarily have to mean stereotype. 79 00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:24.980 Lucy V Hay: Okay, you know, there are lots of great female characters who are wives or girlfriends. And that's just part of their story. That's fine. Okay, as long as they are more than just a wife or a girlfriend, and then not completely idealize in this very stereotypical way. That was the case for a long time. Then that's fine. 80 00:20:25.370 --> 00:20:49.369 Lucy V Hay: Yeah. And it doesn't mean you're not a feminist, if you enjoy romance as well. That's really important to to show. I mean, when I'm working with writers a lot, you know. Sometimes they'll say, Oh, well, she can't be married. She can't have children. I don't want her to be defined by those 2 things, and my reply is always 81 00:20:49.750 --> 00:21:10.020 Lucy V Hay: she can have those 2 things and not be defined by them. That would be okay. You know, there was a period, especially in movies where female characters would have no boyfriends. They'd have no children. They might not even have any friends. They were like complete lone wolves. They were Ice maidens, I called them 82 00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:33.429 Lucy V Hay: because they didn't have any relationships, and that in itself is not realistic either, you know. So defining some a female character by the men in her life. No, thank you. But equally making her an Ice Maiden, so she doesn't want anyone in her life. No, that's gone too far the other way. So you know that, like most things, you can actually find some middle ground here. 83 00:21:33.560 --> 00:22:05.550 Lucy V Hay: Okay, sometimes people don't like romance, because older characters don't tend to be included in a lot of books and TV series and movies. You know, there's this idea that love kind of stops and sex and all that kind of things when you're about 45, and because you know it, older people getting it on is somehow icky which is incredibly ages and very often misogynistic as well. Because there's this idea that female characters, again, as they get older, they become d sex. And that's not cool. 84 00:22:05.850 --> 00:22:23.609 Lucy V Hay: Okay, asexual people may not like romance, you know. I have asexual friends who who may avoid romance because they really really don't want to read sex scenes. They don't want to watch sex scenes, you know, not all sex asexual people have that issue 85 00:22:23.610 --> 00:22:47.580 Lucy V Hay: and don't like that. Sometimes asexual people love romance and and watching it. And it's it's it might be theoretical to them, or they might be or somebody who has a romance in their lives in an asexual way, you know that. And there's multiple, multiple different ways. And I'm really, really keen to point out that nobody in any kind of community is a monolith. Obviously not. 86 00:22:47.750 --> 00:22:53.350 Lucy V Hay: But so asexual people may not like romance for those reasons. 87 00:22:53.410 --> 00:23:05.990 Lucy V Hay: Also, it's worth remembering that romance norms in society date exceptionally quickly. But of course, if you make a movie or a TV series or write a novel. 88 00:23:05.990 --> 00:23:32.629 then it's basically frozen in time, isn't it? So? As a result, as those norms in society date your book, your movie, your TV series will date as well. And I think all of us have seen a movie from the past. Like, if you're watching a Romcom in 9 in from the 19 eighties. For instance, it's kinda horrifying cause. So many of the of the romance norms back then were basically stalking. 89 00:23:32.830 --> 00:23:49.869 Lucy V Hay: basically talking, and all the things that we don't want. Now, even in things like, you know, friends, for example, you know the whole Ross and Rachel thing for Argo. We thought that was romantic in the 1990 S. Now we kind of look at Ross and go. Holy crap! 90 00:23:49.870 --> 00:24:08.229 Lucy V Hay: He! Why does she go out with him. Why does she go back to him? What is the point there? Because everything's changed so much, and we don't see it in that way any more. And you know sometimes things change in very short periods of time as well. You know we in 2,017 we had hashtag me, too. 91 00:24:08.250 --> 00:24:29.340 Lucy V Hay: The time's up movement. So in the last 5, 6, 7 years there's a lot of change in how romance is represented in the in the post. Me, too, era, as publishers, agents, producers like to call it, you know. So there's significant significant change historically. And that's always worth looking at, too. 92 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:47.370 Lucy V Hay: So let's have a look at some romance book stats. Now, romance is still the best selling genre of all time. A lot of people are very surprised at this. Usually when I ask people what they think is the most the best selling genre. Usually people go with crime. 93 00:24:47.610 --> 00:25:08.130 Lucy V Hay: But crime is actually number 2 to romance. Okay, that's a fact. Romance novels are worth 1.4 4 billion dollars per year. I mean, that's a staggering amount. And if we break it down further. In the last 12 months, as of May 2023, 94 00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:12.110 Lucy V Hay: 39 million printed units sold 95 00:25:12.410 --> 00:25:16.360 Lucy V Hay: 39 million units. Wow! 96 00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:28.649 Lucy V Hay: And if you're not sure what I mean when I say units, that's just a way of saying books. Okay? Now, romance sales grew by 52% in 2023 compared to 2022. 97 00:25:29.300 --> 00:25:39.939 Lucy V Hay: Why, that is no one's really entirely sure. I did some research. I asked a bunch of people what they think it was. And they think it's because romance sales go up 98 00:25:40.100 --> 00:25:49.739 Lucy V Hay: when live sucks. Basically, we're talking about escapism here. You know, we've had Covid Brexit 99 00:25:49.740 --> 00:26:10.930 Lucy V Hay: cost of living us right to strike loads of terrible things happening in the World War and and all sorts of things. You know the last 5 to 6 years have been pretty horrendous on a world scale on a personal scale. A lot of people went through a lot, you know. People in their family may have died from covid 100 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:25.790 Lucy V Hay: or old people in their family may have sadly died while they couldn't go and see them at the at the fe at the elderly home. Things like that, you know. Lockdowns were very tough on a lot of people, so 101 00:26:25.790 --> 00:26:50.649 Lucy V Hay: I think that probably is quite fair to assume that romance sales go up, feel good sales go up when life sucks. Okay? So the idea that sales of romance novels more than doubled compared to 2,021 figures, and have continued to do better with every year that passes is because probably life has just been very, very hard recently, very, very hard. And when that happens, the average 102 00:26:50.650 --> 00:27:02.599 person is interested in something that makes them feel better. Okay, so 33% of books sold in mass, market paperback format were romance novels 103 00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:06.320 Lucy V Hay: like Whoa. So in other words, it's a big. 104 00:27:06.320 --> 00:27:35.439 Lucy V Hay: big mistake to dim dismiss romance. No one says that you have to like it. Some of us don't like romance or reading straight romance. That's absolutely fine, but I don't recommend slagging off romance, especially to industry pros because it's seen as pretty amateur to. Basically, you know, dis something that sells so brilliantly. You don't have to like these things, but we can accept that they are what they are. 105 00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:47.009 Lucy V Hay: So super popular romance, movies and TV, we've had so so many, I mean things like Titanic and avatar. They are some of the biggest 106 00:27:47.280 --> 00:27:57.370 Lucy V Hay: blockbusters of all time, I mean Titanic came out in 1997. It's still in the top 10 of all movies that have ever made 107 00:27:57.710 --> 00:27:58.700 Lucy V Hay: ever. 108 00:27:58.970 --> 00:28:28.529 Lucy V Hay: and it's still huge avatar, one and 2 massive. You know. James Cameron knows what he's doing when he takes very popular romance tropes and mixes them with something else. In this case he mixes them with a true story, a terrible drama of, you know, horrifying things that happen to real people with the love story of Jack and Rose. 109 00:28:28.750 --> 00:28:53.959 Lucy V Hay: Okay, so that is something that obviously really works for people. Because people still love this movie avatar as well. The first one in particular, you know. He goes. He mixes romance and science fiction together. And again, people absolutely loved that back in 2,009, and they loved it again last year with the second one. The notebook. 110 00:28:54.630 --> 00:29:02.240 Lucy V Hay: is is a one that I was mentioning earlier. You've got mail that uses a trope called enemies to lovers. 111 00:29:02.330 --> 00:29:29.679 Lucy V Hay: And so does the proposal. Okay, so in other words, 2 people start off, not liking each other or finding each other difficult, or having a problem with each other in some way, and then over the course, the narrative, they realize that actually they have feelings for each other, and it really depends on your viewpoint on that. You know some people absolutely love that some people absolutely hate it. One thing that we can say with 112 00:29:29.710 --> 00:30:02.750 Lucy V Hay: with certainty, is that people when they love it, they love enemies to love us as a trope. They absolutely adore it. Then we've got a heart stopper, which is an Lgbtq story. That features love quite heavily. Bridgeton, which is a historical one again. But equally, it's something that we've not seen before, because we have black members of the royal family, and of the gentry, and all that kind of stuff. And Chandra rhymes, of course, is is a goddess, as we see with Grey's anatomy as well. 113 00:30:02.750 --> 00:30:14.400 Lucy V Hay: Here we have a lot of relationships and romance and doomed romances, and Lgbtq romances and all things romance going on and crazy enough to be. 114 00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:40.259 Lucy V Hay: It's not actually a romantic show necessarily, but it is about the relationships of all the characters. And so, of course, romance features very, very heavily in this medical soap. Got Emily in Paris, you know. Sometimes. We associate romance with particular places, and we can see this happening here. Then here we've got outlander, which is a time travel, romance, you know. So it's both historical. 115 00:30:40.260 --> 00:31:05.050 Lucy V Hay: And of course she goes back and forth, and all that kind of stuff, especially in the books. You may know it as as a book called Cross Stitch, before it was done as outlander for Amazon Prime. So there's just a just a little taste of the types of things that we can do, the types of things that we can mix with romance. There, now, boy meets girl. I call it an archetype type for all eras, because 116 00:31:05.050 --> 00:31:10.879 Lucy V Hay: basically, we know this story. We know it inside out. Boy meets girl 117 00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:23.200 Lucy V Hay: boy loses girl boy gets girl back. That is, boy meets girl in a nutshell right there, and as a plotting archetype literally everybody knows it, because here we've got beginning 118 00:31:23.240 --> 00:31:33.740 Lucy V Hay: middle and boom. You know, this kind of stuff is written into our DNA. You know, as children, we know this story. That's a fact. 119 00:31:33.780 --> 00:31:54.830 Lucy V Hay: Now it originally appeared in the 1935 play, literally called Boy Meets Girl. It was written by Bella and Samuel Spiwak, or Spac. I don't know how you would pronounce that I've only ever seen it written down. They were a husband and wife, playwright team, and they came up with this, and it did. 120 00:31:55.060 --> 00:31:56.130 Lucy V Hay: Okay. 121 00:31:56.540 --> 00:32:20.360 Lucy V Hay: according to Wikipedia. I've not seen this play. I've not read this play, so I don't know what it was like, or whether it was good, or whether how dated it is, or anything like that. I've literally was researching for this master class, and that is the first recorded. Most obvious. Kind of indicator of boy meets. Girl. 122 00:32:20.360 --> 00:32:29.900 Lucy V Hay: Okay, now, we've seen this remixed endlessly. Now for about a hundred years, just under okay. 123 00:32:29.970 --> 00:32:31.240 Now 124 00:32:32.490 --> 00:32:34.990 Lucy V Hay: when I say remix, I mean. 125 00:32:35.380 --> 00:32:42.919 Lucy V Hay: there's lots of different ways we could look at this, you know. Boy meets boy boy loses boy boy gets boy back. 126 00:32:43.150 --> 00:32:51.490 Lucy V Hay: for instance. yeah. An LGBT. Q. Love story. Right there we saw that in certain books like Love Simon 127 00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:57.599 Which became a a movie in its own right? As well. Okay? So 128 00:32:57.970 --> 00:33:15.610 Lucy V Hay: that's an obvious remix. Right there. Another one would be, boy meets. Girl boy loses girl boy tries to get girl back, and she tells him to go F. Himself, but he learns something about what he shouldn't do in a relationship. 129 00:33:15.810 --> 00:33:30.690 Lucy V Hay: Now we've seen a lot of versions of that in the last 10 years in particular. Sometimes it's referred to as the anti ROM com. So Boy doesn't get girl back, but he learns an important lesson at the end. 130 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:51.990 Lucy V Hay: And that's really cool. I think I I'm a big fan of the anti ROM. Com. I like realism, and I like it when relationships go wrong. I'm not really into idealized love, which is hilarious, really, because I've been with my husband for a really long time, and we are very much in love and and completely dedicated to each other. 131 00:33:52.120 --> 00:33:54.460 Lucy V Hay: and yet I prefer 132 00:33:54.530 --> 00:34:07.339 Lucy V Hay: the more realistic love as opposed to the kind of storybook love that I have. So that's interesting. So sometimes we can want to do the opposite of what we have. 133 00:34:07.620 --> 00:34:17.399 Lucy V Hay: You know a friend of mine is divorced. But she writes romance novels, and she writes heavily idealized romance novels. And I'm not saying that as a criticism 134 00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:31.679 Lucy V Hay: that's how she describes them. And that's because she believes that that kind of romance is something that she deserves and hasn't had yet, but she still lives in the hope that she will have that. And why not? 135 00:34:32.130 --> 00:34:42.999 Lucy V Hay: Okay? Sometimes when it comes to boy meets girl, you'll hear romance writers talking about the happy ever after versus the Happy finale. 136 00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:47.829 Lucy V Hay: Sometimes it's referred to by the acronyms, HEA. 137 00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:51.509 Lucy V Hay: Versus HFN. 138 00:34:51.850 --> 00:35:10.100 Lucy V Hay: And I think this is a really really useful kind of differentiation when we're writing our own romances, because at the end of the story do they live happily ever after or not? You know, when you finish this book, can you imagine them being together forever. 139 00:35:10.210 --> 00:35:27.420 Lucy V Hay: and having family getting all together all of that kind of stuff. Can you imagine them like that? Or can you imagine that this is just a snapshot of their life, and they are happy for now, and maybe it will break down in the future. They maybe they went to be together forever. We just don't know. 140 00:35:28.010 --> 00:35:33.629 And I find it really, really useful to kind of think about. If I ever want to write a romance. 141 00:35:33.850 --> 00:35:38.480 Lucy V Hay: is it? Gonna be happy ever after, or is it gonna be happy for now? 142 00:35:38.700 --> 00:35:52.949 Lucy V Hay: And I think I've probably written both of those. and I've probably written the anti-ROM-com as well, not the Anti-ROM-com, but the anti-romance. I showed you that picture of my book, the other twin 143 00:35:53.000 --> 00:36:08.040 Lucy V Hay: at the beginning of this master class, and I won't spool the ending for you. But it's there are lessons that need to be learned. Let's just say that there are lessons. 144 00:36:09.740 --> 00:36:12.740 Lucy V Hay: So how has it changed over the decades. Well. 145 00:36:13.750 --> 00:36:18.150 Lucy V Hay: in the last 4 decades in particular, coming up 5. Now. 146 00:36:18.180 --> 00:36:30.129 Lucy V Hay: romance has got consistently more and more more more popular. Okay, so in the 1980 S. We had what I call dark romance which I mentioned earlier. So we've got body heat. 147 00:36:30.180 --> 00:36:49.259 Lucy V Hay: A very famous 1980 thriller a 19 nineties thriller would be bound, which was a lesbian romance there. But it was very, very dark twilight in the noughties would be a dark would qualify as dark romance. 50 shades of grey 148 00:36:49.260 --> 00:37:02.049 Lucy V Hay: would probably qualify as dark romance as well. Something like haunting Adeline would probably come under that level as well. Okay. So dark romance doesn't seem to be going anywhere. 149 00:37:02.410 --> 00:37:06.610 Lucy V Hay: Dark romance seems to be something that a lot of 150 00:37:06.630 --> 00:37:19.769 Lucy V Hay: people like who don't like straight romance. And when I say straight romance, I mean, just you know, boy meets girl loses girl gets girl back kind of scenario. Not necessarily straight. People romance. 151 00:37:20.010 --> 00:37:27.029 Lucy V Hay: Okay, in the 1990 S, we saw a big explosion of the so-called chick lit 152 00:37:27.350 --> 00:37:57.090 Lucy V Hay: and female kind of leads. Just generally we also saw a lot of leads of black women in particular, and a lot of people aren't aware of the fact that actually, we had a a bit of a a golden era actually, of female leads in the romance. Kind of category, especially in movies. And a lot of those were not just white women 153 00:37:57.090 --> 00:37:59.559 Lucy V Hay: either. Some of them were black women, not enough. 154 00:37:59.570 --> 00:38:20.099 Lucy V Hay: but some of them were like Stella's, got her groove back, or waiting to exhale things like that on the noughties. We had bromance. There was a real explosion of that in the movies in particular, talking Judd apatow, Steve Carol, Seth Rogan, all those guys. And it was one of the first times we really saw a male POV. On love 155 00:38:20.210 --> 00:38:45.410 Lucy V Hay: which is really sad when you think about it? You know that it took till the noughties before we we really kind of put that under the microscope. It was very is very much considered a female genre before that. Then we got the the anti Romcom that I was talking about a moment ago that you know you don't necessarily get back together, you screw it up, and then lessons will be need to be learned. And we can see that in other genres, not just the Romcom 156 00:38:45.410 --> 00:38:50.930 so basically, what can we learn from this relationship? You know, what can we learn from it? Ending 157 00:38:51.050 --> 00:39:01.710 Lucy V Hay: and then in the 20 twenties, I've seen a very considerable rise in Lgbtq. Love stories with very much underlining the idea that love is love. 158 00:39:01.710 --> 00:39:24.749 And it's not a transition story. It's not a coming out story. These people have been trans people, or gay people, or bisexual people for a long time. They feel very comfortable with that. They, you know, this isn't a coming out story. This isn't a transition story. This is about them going through all the love things that straight people go through 159 00:39:25.090 --> 00:39:45.159 Lucy V Hay: all of them. And we're seeing many, many more of these now, which is about time. Okay, so tips for writing your own romance. Okay, so I think you need to read and watch widely in the romance genre, just generally because that's a really good way of actually seeing what people have done before. Because. 160 00:39:45.470 --> 00:40:10.310 Lucy V Hay: you know when we try and do something without doing our research in that original genre. We might accidentally just rehash things because we're all part of that herd or pack that I was talking about earlier. You will have things that have sunk into your brain without you realising, and you don't want to just rehash them in your own work. Also ask yourself, where else do we see romance? What kind of things. 161 00:40:10.310 --> 00:40:16.249 when you see romance in other genres like thriller, or horror, or 162 00:40:16.250 --> 00:40:22.750 Lucy V Hay: spies, or crime, or whatever. What type of things turn up all the time? 163 00:40:22.790 --> 00:40:24.960 Because if that's 164 00:40:25.230 --> 00:40:32.940 Lucy V Hay: that will tell you whether it's popular or not. But also it will help you subvert audience or reader expectations. Too 165 00:40:33.350 --> 00:40:56.130 Lucy V Hay: obviously, we need to develop compelling characters. That's why I suggested that you get over to bank right.com and sign up for that free characterization masterclass, because that's got really in depth stuff that you can really think about in terms of not just romance, but also in terms of your character role functions, their motivations, the way they do things and why they do them. 166 00:40:56.560 --> 00:40:59.889 You need to think about chemistry and tension. 167 00:41:00.070 --> 00:41:14.100 Lucy V Hay: This is why it can be a really good idea to research the thriller genre, because the thriller genre is about tension. You know, it's about escalation so that can actually help you write a romance if you want to. 168 00:41:15.030 --> 00:41:39.889 Lucy V Hay: Okay, focus on emotional depth. Yeah, don't be cheesy don't have the easy answers. You know, the average person in the 20 twenties who's reading a romance book or reading or watching a romance TV series, or whatever wants something that's not just 2 pats. It's not just too easy for the characters they want the complications of relationships. 169 00:41:39.930 --> 00:41:49.919 Most people will talk about the complications of relationships these days. So you know, maybe start watching some psychology Youtube channels 170 00:41:50.030 --> 00:41:57.230 Lucy V Hay: and actually learning more about relationships. Just generally, I mean, Gray's anatomy is very, very 171 00:41:57.630 --> 00:42:17.390 Lucy V Hay: loquacious on the emotions of relationships which doesn't work for everyone. It doesn't really work for me. But one thing I do love about Gray's anatomy is that they are not afraid to shine a light on all the complicated mess that is, relationships, including people being unreasonable. 172 00:42:17.610 --> 00:42:24.680 Lucy V Hay: Sometimes we forget that you know, nobody's behaving very well in this relationship. 173 00:42:25.830 --> 00:42:50.930 Lucy V Hay: and very often we fall into expected patterns when we write those those moments like, I was reading a screenplay recently, and the man was really really unreasonable the whole time. And the woman she was so understanding all the time. And I got really annoyed. Because why can't men be emotionally literate 174 00:42:51.760 --> 00:43:01.809 Lucy V Hay: and equally wider? Women have to be doormats? They were very kind of 2 2 dimensional expected roles in this screen play. 175 00:43:02.040 --> 00:43:16.970 Lucy V Hay: and when I think of all the romances that are tragedies that I've loved over the years, something like blue Valentine Starring, Ryan Gosling, and Michelle Williams was a masterpiece, because neither of them in that relationship 176 00:43:17.010 --> 00:43:29.559 Lucy V Hay: behave well. They're both as bad as each other, and they both destroy the relationship piece by piece by piece, and it is tragic, because when they meet at the beginning they're so in love. 177 00:43:29.900 --> 00:43:33.169 Lucy V Hay: and by the end everything is ruined. 178 00:43:33.310 --> 00:43:57.429 Lucy V Hay: It's just a masterpiece. So if you haven't seen Blue Valentine, or you haven't seen it recently, then I strongly recommend you. Go and watch it because it is a master class in how people destroy their relationships in really, really obvious ways that's completely blind to them. They're completely blind to it. 179 00:43:57.430 --> 00:44:09.710 Lucy V Hay: They don't see what they're doing. And we're watching it going. Oh, God, if you could just compromise, please compromise, but of course they can't. It's a tragedy, and everything's ruined. 180 00:44:09.720 --> 00:44:15.939 Lucy V Hay: and it's disappointing, but also cathartic at the same time. It's a wonderful piece of work. 181 00:44:16.350 --> 00:44:31.450 Lucy V Hay: Set the right mood a KA tone that's really important as well. You know. Is it whimsical? Is it dark? Is it funny? Is it gross? What is it? You know you need to pick something and stick with it. 182 00:44:31.720 --> 00:44:56.880 Lucy V Hay: Try and avoid those cliches. Now, tropes are not necessarily cliches. Tropes can become cliches because they use too much. So that's why you need to research tropes. Tropes are just recurrent ideas that we see. I just a moment ago talked about that screenplay where the woman was so understanding and the man was so unreasonable. That's a cliche that's boring. 183 00:44:57.420 --> 00:45:13.150 Lucy V Hay: It's dull. So you need to research tropes. So go on sites like trooppedia and and wikihow, and all those other sites to to kind of research tropes, and see if you can subvert our expectations. 184 00:45:14.350 --> 00:45:29.489 Lucy V Hay: I would strongly encourage you to portray respectful and consensual relationships, because in the 20 twenties in the post. Metoo Era. That's what the average reader or viewer wants to see. We do not want to see gratuitous 185 00:45:29.490 --> 00:45:44.549 Lucy V Hay: rape and abusive scenes. We don't necessarily want to see things that have dubious consent, or I'll just have a a wicked empower imbalance, or anything like that. So do you watch out for that. 186 00:45:44.820 --> 00:46:03.570 Lucy V Hay: Write with passion and authenticity. Okay, if you have your own love story, then think about what makes up your love story. What is it that W. That people? If your love story was a movie, why would people watch that, you know thinking about your own love if you have one. 187 00:46:04.020 --> 00:46:07.069 Lucy V Hay: or equally, if you had one, and have now lost it. 188 00:46:07.290 --> 00:46:23.370 Lucy V Hay: or you are doing therapy and understanding your own role and various breakups. Things like that. You know. All of this information is at your fingertips right there, and that's what adds to authenticity. 189 00:46:23.460 --> 00:46:50.670 Lucy V Hay: Okay, so that's me. Lucy V. Hay from bankterrite.com. I was talking about boy meets girls all and all about writing romance in the 20 twenties. If you are at all interested in chatting with me, please do drop me online and don't forget to get over to bangterite.com to the free stuff section to get your free stuff for your novel or your screenplay. 190 00:46:53.850 --> 00:46:55.520 Lucy V Hay: Okay. 191 00:46:55.700 --> 00:47:17.000 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: thank you so much, Lucy. That was great. We do have about 15 QA. Questions. If you have a question and haven't submitted it yet. Now's the time to do so. And also, if you have a link to your pre order for the new book, we can drop it in the chat for you. No problem. 192 00:47:17.010 --> 00:47:41.799 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: I did find the Amazon link. If that's the one that you would like to share. Yeah, it says, repeat box set containing 5 erotica novellas. Yes, that's it. Okay? Great. I'm gonna drop that in the chat for everybody. Now, it's kind of a long link, and you get 5 stories and one so 193 00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:51.630 Lucy V Hay: can I. Can. I just can. I just point out that it's very explicit. So if you don't like sex scenes. Do not buy this book, but if you like, sex scenes 194 00:47:51.630 --> 00:47:56.780 Lucy V Hay: be my guest. Yes, so purchase at your own risk, but do enjoy 195 00:47:56.780 --> 00:48:05.219 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: so first question is from an anonymous attendee who would like to know how a book makes it big on tick tock. 196 00:48:05.850 --> 00:48:30.829 Lucy V Hay: That's a really good question, and something that everybody would love to know but books tend to go big on tick, tock when they've got a strong hook of some kind. And so, having a strong hook is really important. Also the type of content that you share as well. So you know, researching tick, tock trends, researching trending 197 00:48:30.830 --> 00:48:55.439 content as well, that's like yours. So because I'm doing this relaunch of my erotica novella. I've been doing a lot of video content about the Erotica over on my bank to write tick, Tock. So if you go over there you'll see me talking as if I am the character talking about other books that are like my books. 198 00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:07.899 Lucy V Hay: Yeah, and doing all those kind of things also. Not next Monday. So a week today, I'm actually going to be sharing an article on bang to write on how to go viral on Tiktok. So 199 00:49:08.010 --> 00:49:15.029 Lucy V Hay: there'll be more information about how to go viral on tick tock on Banks right next week. But yeah, get it. Get over to my 200 00:49:15.160 --> 00:49:35.560 Lucy V Hay: get over to my Bank to write tick, tock, and you'll see the type of things that I'm doing, and also just get on tick, tock, and start to actually find all of the books that are doing well. And then look at what they're all doing. That's the same. That's how you do it, because it's all about. It's all about cumulative buildup. 201 00:49:35.740 --> 00:49:36.470 Lucy V Hay: Okay. 202 00:49:37.310 --> 00:49:48.110 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: we have a couple of questions surrounding the happy ending in romance. Is romance still considered romance, if it does not have the happily ever after, or happily for now 203 00:49:49.240 --> 00:50:16.259 Lucy V Hay: I think it depends. I mean, if it's a romance. and it's just about that romance, and it's not about a crime that's being committed, for instance. So if you're writing a romantic suspense and they break up at the end. For instance, then, yeah, that's still considered romance. Whereas if somebody is just writing about a relationship that doesn't necessarily work out. 204 00:50:16.390 --> 00:50:24.440 Lucy V Hay: It can be an anti Ro. Romcom or an anti romance absolutely. So II guess I'm saying it depends what you do with it? 205 00:50:25.850 --> 00:50:50.340 Lucy V Hay: Laura asks, why are most adult parents all dead in historical romance? That's a really good question. And usually it's something to do with just like getting them out away. Because, you know, parents can get in the way they can create obstacles to in terms of actually helping the protagonists. So what you do is you just get rid of them. And it's 206 00:50:50.630 --> 00:51:08.239 Lucy V Hay: yes, it's an old fashioned trope. But also it's not necessarily inauthentic in historical romance, because people died very young and stuff like that. So it's fine. It's it's just a way of just saying, no, she's got no, you know she or he has got no parents to to guide him in this way. I think 207 00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:20.530 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: an anonymous attendee says the theme of my story centers around self love. But I really want to add a romance subplot. Are there any tips for adding this without sounding hypocritical? 208 00:51:20.720 --> 00:51:35.599 Lucy V Hay: I think what I would do is kind of make it clear that that person is not defined by their love. I mean, when I wrote this book there's a romance in it, and 209 00:51:35.600 --> 00:52:00.399 Lucy V Hay: the lead character. She has always rejected romance. She's always thought that romance would weaken her. So when she falls it head over heels with this guy, she's actually a little bit horrified with herself. She's actually a bit kind of oh, no! What am I doing? II always said I was never gonna do this, and so he's he's very emotionally illiterate. He's like, I love you. Let's go off into the sunset. I'll help you with you know, with the problem that they have 210 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:25.139 cause. She's a witch and all that kind of stuff, and I'll do anything for you. He's very much all in from the very beginning, whereas she's like what and so like, you know, just kind of leaning into that kind of element and saying that this is a character who would never normally do this, and now she's doing it and kind of have her or him thinking about those things that would stop it from being hypocritical. I think 211 00:52:26.680 --> 00:52:42.350 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: we have another anonymous attendee who says, If you have an ex lovers who are enemies, and you want to do enemies to relovers, it's still enemies to lovers. But how do you recommend treating it differently? And what part of the tropes still work, and which subtropes? Does one want to subvert? 212 00:52:42.940 --> 00:53:14.469 Lucy V Hay: I think the will, they won't they? Aspect is probably what has dated a lot of people who were very into Ross and Rachel, for example, in the 19 nineties now think no, I don't like that aspect, and when I have asked them what it is that they don't like about it every single time they've said it's the will they won't. They kind of aspects. And they're kind of, and especially them kind of getting at each other and being mean to each other and horrible to each other. They don't like that aspect, whereas if 213 00:53:14.510 --> 00:53:35.790 Lucy V Hay: their enemies to lovers, and so, for example, in Brooklyn, 9, 9. They have a whole love story between Jake and Amy, don't they? And the writers of Brooklyn? 9 9 said they specifically wanted to avoid, will they? Won't they, in their love story cause they didn't want to do a replay of Ross and Rachel, so what they had was 214 00:53:35.920 --> 00:53:40.659 Lucy V Hay: a male character, Jake, he's into Amy pretty much from the very beginning. 215 00:53:40.730 --> 00:54:04.940 Lucy V Hay: and she's like, No, stay over there. I like you. You're fun to be around. But boyfriend material. No, you're not that. And so he basically has to appeal to her through doing a variety of things that make her come round to his point of view. So I think that's what I would do as well with a modern, with a more modern kind of enemies to lovers. 216 00:54:06.720 --> 00:54:16.299 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Paula asks, Does the boy always get the girl back at the end of any romance, or is it Ok for it to not end this way? Is it Ok. For it to not end this way. If it's a series. 217 00:54:16.810 --> 00:54:39.989 Lucy V Hay: I think you can do whatever you want. And I think definitely, boys don't get the girl back a lot these days, and they don't deserve to get them back. So they need to kind of do work on themselves and understand their role in that relationship, breaking down. And of course, that can power the next book or the next 218 00:54:39.990 --> 00:54:52.039 Lucy V Hay: episode or the next. What movie? You know very effectively, as they basically redeem themselves because there are lots of couples out there that break up horribly, and then over many 219 00:54:52.080 --> 00:55:04.080 Lucy V Hay: months or years, even actually become friends again, repair the relationship and get remarried. I went to a Mario wedding last year, and these 2 people be married in their twenties. 220 00:55:04.110 --> 00:55:05.280 Lucy V Hay: split up 221 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:13.509 Lucy V Hay: horrible, acrimonious divorce was terrible now, 30 years later there are nearly 60. They've just got remarried 222 00:55:13.880 --> 00:55:17.229 Lucy V Hay: because they've come all the way round to it. Why not? 223 00:55:18.780 --> 00:55:24.210 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Lisa asks, how does a trope become cliche. Can you give an example? 224 00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:40.770 Lucy V Hay: So a a trope becomes cliche when we see it too much. And it's a really really hard thing to judge, because basically, what happens is when something works. Writers use it over and over and over and over again, because people like it. 225 00:55:40.780 --> 00:56:07.759 Lucy V Hay: And then suddenly, readers, viewers, they suddenly don't like it any more, and it's very, very hard to judge when that is. and so that the only thing we can do is do loads and loads of research into tropes, you know, going on sites like trooppedia and making a judgment call of our ideas, developing them properly, going, taking it out to Beta. Readers taking it out to script, consultants 226 00:56:07.900 --> 00:56:10.549 Lucy V Hay: doing peer review those kind of things. 227 00:56:10.610 --> 00:56:35.269 Lucy V Hay: and just taking a straw poll of everyone is like, is this, too? Cheesy? Is this cliche? Is this working for you? Because there's always going to be someone who says, No, it's not working for me. I don't like it. Blah blah blah! But if more than you know, say, you show it to 5 people and 4 out of the 5 say, this is cheesy. Then you've got your answer right there, you know. So that that's what I would do, and that's what I do, do. 228 00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:46.509 Lucy V Hay: And and sometimes people get the wrong end of the stick. You know there's a trope called Insta love as an instantly falling in love. Okay? And a lot of people think that 229 00:56:46.540 --> 00:56:49.740 Lucy V Hay: the love story in this book is Insta. Love? It's not. 230 00:56:49.760 --> 00:57:07.420 Lucy V Hay: It never has been. I even explain what it is. And yet some people will still say I don't like. It's got instal love in it. It's like it doesn't know. So you need to know what you're using. Otherwise that can be quite upsetting as well when somebody says, Oh, it's this, and you go. Well, that's I don't think it is. 231 00:57:08.010 --> 00:57:32.229 Lucy V Hay: but you're not sure. So if you know what tropes you're using. And so when somebody is mistaken and gives you that kind of mistaken feedback, you can go. Oh, well, thank you for your feedback, but actually, I don't need to. Actually, you know, take that into account. Because that wasn't what I was actually doing. So yeah, the more you know about tropes, the more you're gonna understand what you're doing, and the effect that they have on readers or viewers, or whatever 232 00:57:33.540 --> 00:57:38.429 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Nissanda asks, can we have a boy meets a girl that are in their golden age 233 00:57:40.210 --> 00:57:42.650 Lucy V Hay: when you say Golden Age. Do you mean old? 234 00:57:43.130 --> 00:58:07.350 Lucy V Hay: That's how I took the question. Okay, I mean, I would love to see more. Boy meets girl of people in their seventies and above it just doesn't happen. There was a short period in British film where a lot of people you know, we have all these, you know, Golden Age. Actors. Don't we like Judi Dench and Imelda Staunton and Bill Nye and all that kind of stuff. So they started doing. 235 00:58:07.530 --> 00:58:09.239 Lucy V Hay: you know, old 236 00:58:09.530 --> 00:58:34.470 Lucy V Hay: protagonist movies about 20 years ago, when they hit sort of like their mid-fifties. Now they're still doing those kind of films, and they there's a lot of old characters, old characters in it. And they've been very popular, but I'm still struck by the fact. The vast majority of those movies featuring these, those older characters are thrillers or dramas to do with other things other than love and relation 237 00:58:34.470 --> 00:58:53.529 Lucy V Hay: relationships. So I would really, really love to see more screenplays, more novels, featuring older couples who are starting again, you know, with a second marriage, or a third marriage, or a fourth marriage whatever. You know, polyamorous old couples, you know all of that kind of stuff. Why not? Why haven't we seen any of this? It's a 20 twenties. 238 00:58:54.320 --> 00:59:04.920 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Think we have time for one more question, and Jules asks for why romance books are there particular things writers should be conscious of doing or not doing when it comes to romance between teenagers. 239 00:59:04.940 --> 00:59:22.339 Lucy V Hay: Yeah, I was talking about this only the other day, actually with a with a publisher who does a lot of ya novels, and he said he finds it really frustrating that a lot of authors haven't read a lot of ya, and it shows on their pages. And he said that 240 00:59:22.340 --> 00:59:37.660 the biggest thing that shows that they don't read ya is that ya? By its very nature, is quite chaste. We're talking about kisses. We're talking about longing. We're talking about secrets, all of that kind of stuff. We're not necessarily talking about 241 00:59:37.660 --> 00:59:48.539 sex and and and graphic portrayals of sex. So you know, everybody thinks that. You know, I mean occasionally 242 00:59:48.540 --> 01:00:12.870 Lucy V Hay: they do. You know things like forever by Judy Blume is a classic, and it was one of the first books that ever dealt with teenagers and sex, and losing your virginity and all that kind of stuff. So if you're writing that kind of book, then it's fine, because it kind of is in this very small sub genre of forever style books. But the fast fast majority we're talking like 99% of ya is very, very chaste. 243 01:00:13.230 --> 01:00:31.709 Lucy V Hay: very chaste indeed. And if you want to write explicit sex and explicit stuff that's very complicated to do with relationships bar beyond. You know, he likes me. He doesn't like me. All of that kind of stuff. Then you need to be writing for adults. You don't want to be writing for for teenagers. 244 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:39.770 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Alright, thank you so much. I'm going to drop the links for everybody again. One more time in the chat. 245 01:00:39.880 --> 01:01:03.729 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and thank you so much for coming to our first session, Lucy. Thank you so much for kicking us off again. We love having you here as always. Wonderful presentation. We will have Lucy's slides and links on the Hub page today. So please go there to check that out, and we will see you at the next session in just about an hour. So thank you, everyone. 246 01:01:04.100 --> 01:01:05.540 Lucy V Hay: Thank you so much. 247 01:01:06.030 --> 01:01:07.060 Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Bye-bye.