WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.780 --> 00:00:08.420 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Hello, everybody! Welcome back to crime writers. Week. 2 00:00:08.520 --> 00:00:33.200 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: It is a very Hayley heavy Wednesday. So far it's good to see you on here in my second session today. Just to make sure that everything is still working. If you can see or hear me. Let me know what. Well, we started with what you're having for breakfast this morning. So let's see, do you have dinner plans? Let's see if we can get some inspiration for my dinner today. What are you planning on eating for dinner? 3 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:39.469 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: I have no decisions yet. Cynthia is doing a salad market like me, no plans. Yet 4 00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:44.769 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: the key also has no idea. Tammy pizza or pizza. Sounds good 5 00:00:45.610 --> 00:00:48.290 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: undecided. Zucchini pasta. Yeah. 6 00:00:50.860 --> 00:00:53.900 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Oh, mango chicken with rice. That sounds great, Harry. 7 00:00:54.780 --> 00:01:02.160 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: This movie after you work out. Yeah, I'm going to hopefully go to the gym after this, but we'll see how tired I am. Ed's doing buffalo chicken. 8 00:01:02.190 --> 00:01:03.620 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Good to see you. Ed. 9 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:14.049 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Oh, yeah, it is. It's actually I'm in the Uk, and it's getting a bit warmer. I think this is the 1st day I've I was just outside in between the 2 sessions, and it was actually 10 00:01:14.070 --> 00:01:29.770 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: actually warm enough to potentially take off my sweater, which has not happened very much in the Uk, so far this year. Okay, great. Well, it looks like everything is working. So we will go ahead and get started here just a couple of quick housekeeping notes before I welcome our guest today. 11 00:01:30.049 --> 00:01:48.780 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: So as always, if you would like to access the replays from this session, those will be added to the Hub page once they are done processing by zoom and those processing times can vary. So if you don't see them right away, it's probably just because Zoom and Youtube are taking a minute to process those and we do also always add the 12 00:01:49.160 --> 00:02:03.370 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: the slides for any of the sessions that we have permission. So any of our speakers who have done slide presentations, we will add those as long as we get permission. And the replays will be available on the community. Page by June 28.th Before that they'll be on the Hub page 13 00:02:04.052 --> 00:02:19.540 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: and, as you know, today's sessions are free to attend. Friday. Session is limited to premium and premium pro members. You can upgrade your account by Friday morning to gain access to those, and if you've already upgraded your account you will receive instructions on Friday morning for how to join. 14 00:02:19.950 --> 00:02:32.540 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: If you would like to upgrade before Friday morning, you can upgrade for 15% off using the code crime writers week 2024 cw. 2024. And the details for all of this are on the hub as well. 15 00:02:33.173 --> 00:02:52.830 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: If you would like to continue talking crime with us after today's session, please feel free to join us in the online community again, you can find the link for that on the Hub page. We have a a chat space there for you to continue talking about the sessions you have today, as well as to keep up to date with our next level of free writing events. 16 00:02:53.290 --> 00:03:16.439 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: And then as a reminder for this session. Please use the QA. Box if you have questions for our speaker. Wanda and I are going to be having a great chat about writing, so if you have questions, please drop those into the QA. Box. I will be peppering those in throughout. If there's anything that's related to what we're talking about, but then we will also have time at the end if there are any further questions, so please go ahead and drop those in the QA box so that I can keep track of them. 17 00:03:16.660 --> 00:03:25.019 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: And if you would like to chat with other viewers, or just kind of overall, you know, have a have a have a chat about what's going on. Please feel free to use the chat as you have 18 00:03:25.642 --> 00:03:35.509 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: and then links to the offers. From our speakers, as well as the information about the community and the discount are all available on the hub. 19 00:03:35.780 --> 00:04:00.049 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: So with that being said, I think we are ready to get started. I am very thrilled to be joined by Wanda M. Morris today, who is the award-winning author of all her little secrets which has been praised by Karen Slaughter, a former Crime writers week participant as brilliantly and nuanced and reviewed by the Boston Globe la Times, new York Times, Atlanta Journal, Constitution, Seattle Times, and South Florida Sun Sentinel, among others. 20 00:04:00.200 --> 00:04:16.579 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: her second novel Anywhere you Run, won the Anthony Award for best historical novel of 2023, and was longlisted for the prestigious Mark Twain voice and American literature prize. Her 3rd novel. And this is the 3rd novel, right. Wanda just came out yesterday. Is that correct? Yes. 21 00:04:16.589 --> 00:04:16.909 Wanda M. Morris: Cora. 22 00:04:16.910 --> 00:04:46.770 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Her 3rd novel, and what you leave behind just came out yesterday. I'll put the link for that in the chat, and then Wanda is also married, the mother of 3, and lives in Atlanta, Georgia, where she will be speaking soon. At the Atlanta History Center. So I'm also gonna put a link for that in the chat. I think we've got some Georgia participants joining us. So if anyone would like to catch Wanda in person the 1st link is for her book. And the second link is for her chat. So welcome, Wanda, we're so happy to have you. 23 00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:50.189 Wanda M. Morris: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. 24 00:04:50.510 --> 00:05:01.129 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Great. Well, I would love to just dive in and talk a little bit about your writing journey. So what inspired you to want to be a writer. In the 1st place. 25 00:05:03.835 --> 00:05:04.670 Wanda M. Morris: Gosh. 26 00:05:04.750 --> 00:05:08.040 Wanda M. Morris: Kate, versus the chicken or the egg. 27 00:05:08.790 --> 00:05:14.210 Wanda M. Morris: I I think I've always loved to write. I've always loved to tell stories. 28 00:05:15.110 --> 00:05:16.000 Wanda M. Morris: But 29 00:05:16.250 --> 00:05:19.970 Wanda M. Morris: you know I kept tamping it down. I 30 00:05:20.050 --> 00:05:45.260 Wanda M. Morris: kept listening to everybody else, my parents, my friends, whomever and so when I went off to college, I, you know I did as I was instructed. I went off and found a career, you know, in something that was considered more stable. And I became a lawyer, but I did not lose that yearning to tell stories. 31 00:05:45.713 --> 00:05:50.246 Wanda M. Morris: And it was only after I had been working gosh! 32 00:05:51.170 --> 00:05:56.110 Wanda M. Morris: Well into my career I had a couple of kids. 33 00:05:56.691 --> 00:06:07.969 Wanda M. Morris: I was working a really stressful job. I was traveling cross country from Atlanta to California at least a couple of times a month. 34 00:06:08.352 --> 00:06:14.310 Wanda M. Morris: And then that's that's the the moment I decided to to start writing seriously. 35 00:06:15.820 --> 00:06:18.810 Wanda M. Morris: so I was just like. 36 00:06:18.840 --> 00:06:26.820 Wanda M. Morris: you know, writing and snatches of time that I could catch when my kids were in piano lesson or football practice, or what have you? 37 00:06:27.601 --> 00:06:42.830 Wanda M. Morris: But once I started, I I couldn't stop. And I thought, Yeah, maybe I could do this. I still was a long way from thinking maybe I could do this for a living, but at least I was doing that thing that gave me joy and. 38 00:06:42.830 --> 00:06:43.510 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: No. 39 00:06:43.510 --> 00:06:45.200 Wanda M. Morris: Make me happy. Yeah. 40 00:06:45.200 --> 00:06:58.699 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about? You mentioned kind of writing and snapshots and spaces of time? So what were you working on. Was it a book idea? Was it scenes? Did you have a plan, or were you just kind of winging it, so to speak. 41 00:06:59.230 --> 00:07:02.970 Wanda M. Morris: Well, if if you read that 1st draft you would think I was winging it. 42 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:20.740 Wanda M. Morris: But I was actually working on my my 1st book. It was the manuscript for my 1st book, I I started, he 1st of all let me back up. You have to know. It took me 13 years from the time I wrote the 1st scene in that book to the day was published. 43 00:07:21.541 --> 00:07:34.549 Wanda M. Morris: And the reason for that is do full. 1st and foremost, I think you know, the publishing industry takes a long time, but I just didn't know what I was doing right. I was a lawyer. 44 00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:44.276 Wanda M. Morris: Lawyers write very, very differently from, you know. Creatives. You pick up an appellate brief. It does not read like a thriller. Now. 45 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:45.573 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Oh, yeah. 46 00:07:46.020 --> 00:08:06.969 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah. So 1st and foremost, I had to learn how to write a novel. But secondly, I think that I kinda I lost my way. I stopped believing that I could do this. And so I written the 1st draft of this novel really about 75%, because I didn't really have the ending figured out. 47 00:08:07.280 --> 00:08:10.549 Wanda M. Morris: But I've written about 75% of this book. 48 00:08:10.830 --> 00:08:15.089 Wanda M. Morris: and then I put it away, cause I I just read it. And I thought 49 00:08:15.550 --> 00:08:19.440 Wanda M. Morris: this reads like garbage, and nobody's ever gonna want to read. 50 00:08:19.790 --> 00:08:23.689 Wanda M. Morris: And I put the book away, and I put the book away for 7 years. 51 00:08:24.104 --> 00:08:34.609 Wanda M. Morris: And then I got sick. I got really, really sick, and when I came through the illness on the other side of it, I thought. 52 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:41.820 Wanda M. Morris: what am I doing? I mean I enjoyed writing. I loved it. Why am I not doing it? 53 00:08:42.123 --> 00:08:51.756 Wanda M. Morris: And so, you know, 7 years after putting it away. I picked it up. And this time I I really got serious about it, cause you know, I kinda had this life altering experience. 54 00:08:52.460 --> 00:09:06.169 Wanda M. Morris: And it was then that you know, I really started to try and do like what a lot of the folks out here listening today are doing, learning the craft of writing by taking courses and 55 00:09:07.112 --> 00:09:09.130 Wanda M. Morris: doing workshops and 56 00:09:09.190 --> 00:09:18.229 Wanda M. Morris: entering contests. All those things that I think helped me to improve the novel, and helped me to learn to write 57 00:09:18.542 --> 00:09:30.690 Wanda M. Morris: and so yeah, it. It was only then that after I had put the book away and came back to it that I I said, Yeah, maybe maybe I can do this. And so by the time I finished it I read at that time, and I was like. 58 00:09:31.010 --> 00:09:32.950 Wanda M. Morris: maybe there's something here, you know. 59 00:09:32.950 --> 00:09:33.380 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Hmm. 60 00:09:33.693 --> 00:09:37.449 Wanda M. Morris: And then what about the business of querying to find an agent. 61 00:09:37.620 --> 00:10:04.659 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Oh, wow! That's such an inspiring story. Because I think in in what we've been talking about. I was leading a session on editing earlier today, and and a lot of people were saying exactly what you are that they've been working on drafts, for, you know a single draft or of the same novel for years, or that they've had something, but they're not sure if it's any good. So they're putting it down and kind of coming back to it. So it's really great to see that it's kind of that that initial project really did 62 00:10:04.760 --> 00:10:16.880 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: hold. Hold, wait for you and and in. And maybe you needed to to kind of go through the process of revising, but it was worth it. It wasn't that. There was nothing to salvage from there, that there was probably a lot to salvage from there. 63 00:10:17.500 --> 00:10:21.390 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah. You know, I tell people that 64 00:10:21.400 --> 00:10:27.010 Wanda M. Morris: you know, if you're one of these people, that you think everything you write is fantastically great 65 00:10:27.559 --> 00:10:46.339 Wanda M. Morris: it's probably not. I think most of us are of. You know the nature where we think you know. Maybe this isn't so good, and so we keep at it, and we keep at it, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think I think it is for me. At least, I write the 1st draft. 66 00:10:46.340 --> 00:11:10.410 Wanda M. Morris: But it's really in the revision that the book really starts to come alive. You know, because that's where you're developing the characters. And you think through scenes. And you're like, Oh, that doesn't really work, or that doesn't land. That seems flat. And it's in that revision process. And so there's nothing wrong with with keeping at it. I I think most of us need to do that. 67 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:33.290 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: So speaking on that revision process. Just because this is something we were just talking about as a group one of the things people were asking in the previous session is, How do you know when you're done revising? Because drafting in some ways is kind of like you get to the end. And you're like, Okay, I've got to the end. But you could. You could tinker forever in theory with a manuscript and keep improving. So how do you know when it's time to kind of 68 00:11:33.690 --> 00:11:48.559 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: say, hands off. And I guess you know now that you have had such phenomenal success publishing, I'm assuming you're working with editors and agents, etc. But for that 1st book, how did you kind of know? Okay, I'm done. It's time to query at this point. 69 00:11:51.364 --> 00:11:54.755 Wanda M. Morris: Truthfully. I don't think I did, because 70 00:11:56.160 --> 00:11:59.789 Wanda M. Morris: I think I queried too soon. 1st off 71 00:12:00.140 --> 00:12:14.898 Wanda M. Morris: like when I finished the book, and you know. I made a a few edits to it, and then I went about. The business is sending it out, and I got a ton of rejection lots and lots and lots of rejection. 72 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.850 Wanda M. Morris: But you know, when I look back on that, I'm like, I think I might have queried too soon. That book was. 73 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:20.900 Wanda M. Morris: Ready 74 00:12:21.491 --> 00:12:45.259 Wanda M. Morris: for the the few agents who gave me something more than a form letter like they actually provided some, you know, constructive criticism. I took that, and I ported back into the manuscript, which helped me to make it a better manuscript. But then, when I I went out and I started querying again. I you gotta know. This manuscript got almost 90 75 00:12:45.260 --> 00:12:54.870 Wanda M. Morris: rejections. Okay, so we're talking a lot of querying so when I started going out subsequently, and I was still getting rejected. 76 00:12:55.490 --> 00:13:04.140 Wanda M. Morris: I could have given up then. I don't think I did, because I was so in love with the characters in the book. Right? 77 00:13:04.190 --> 00:13:09.449 Wanda M. Morris: I, you know. At least Little John is is the protagonist in that book 78 00:13:09.610 --> 00:13:18.669 Wanda M. Morris: I was fighting for her hard cause. I was like this girl has something, and so I just kept at it. 79 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.820 Wanda M. Morris: Now, having, you know, I just 80 00:13:22.830 --> 00:13:36.169 Wanda M. Morris: finish my 4th book now, having 4 books under my belt. I think it's a little different right with that 1st book I had the luxury of of writing over years, long periods. 81 00:13:36.682 --> 00:13:47.770 Wanda M. Morris: And I didn't really know when it was done until I sent it out, and an agent said, I love it but now, with the the subsequent books. 82 00:13:48.580 --> 00:13:51.600 Wanda M. Morris: and let me preface this by saying. 83 00:13:51.950 --> 00:14:00.850 Wanda M. Morris: I can still pick up my book today that is, in published form, and think I should. I should have tweaked that I should have written that differently. 84 00:14:00.920 --> 00:14:18.010 Wanda M. Morris: but beyond that I think now for me, when I think it is done, is when I have written it. I've written a manuscript. I read over it a couple of times, and I don't really know how to fix it like. 85 00:14:18.870 --> 00:14:25.690 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah, I could tweak a sentence or 2. But like, does this really need a whole developmental edit? 86 00:14:25.870 --> 00:14:26.240 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. 87 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:33.109 Wanda M. Morris: Do I need to remove characters? Do I have too many story lines that haven't been tied up? 88 00:14:33.580 --> 00:14:38.750 Wanda M. Morris: If I've done my work, and I can see that storylines are tied up. 89 00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:42.839 Wanda M. Morris: I've gotten to an ending that's gonna be satisfying for the reader. 90 00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:44.969 Wanda M. Morris: Then. Yeah, I feel like 91 00:14:45.520 --> 00:14:53.297 Wanda M. Morris: I don't know how to fix it anymore. So now it's time to turn it in now, of course, it turned it into my editor. She's like, Oh, you know, we need to do this. 92 00:14:53.520 --> 00:14:54.672 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: To other stuff. Yeah. 93 00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:09.169 Wanda M. Morris: Exactly exactly but I mean, like the big work for you is done like you know your characters inside out. You've tightened up anything that looks like a potential plot hole. 94 00:15:10.770 --> 00:15:24.640 Wanda M. Morris: you know, you tied up any loose story ends story lines, that sort of stuff. I think when you get to that point. And you feel like, Yeah, okay, I've I've done this. I've done that. 95 00:15:24.780 --> 00:15:34.379 Wanda M. Morris: Then you you probably are at a point where it's time to to turn it loose and let somebody else see it, because you don't want to be that person that works on the same book. 96 00:15:34.630 --> 00:15:36.930 Wanda M. Morris: or you know you. You 97 00:15:38.070 --> 00:15:40.190 Wanda M. Morris: do you? The kind of store then? 98 00:15:41.230 --> 00:15:42.530 Wanda M. Morris: Oh, I am kidding. 99 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:44.340 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Hello! Can you hear me? 100 00:15:44.580 --> 00:15:46.588 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Can't tell if it's oh, are you there? 101 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:47.440 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah, I can't. 102 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.069 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: My Internet or yours. No worries. 103 00:15:50.070 --> 00:15:54.119 Wanda M. Morris: It may be mine. Oh, gosh! Am I? Am I floating out. 104 00:15:54.339 --> 00:15:59.169 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: I again. I can't tell if it was you or me, but I should all be. Seems like it's all set now. 105 00:15:59.170 --> 00:16:09.240 Wanda M. Morris: If it ha! If it happens again, let me know, and I'll have to get a hotspot. My Internet may be acting kind of Wonky, so let me know if it happens again. 106 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:28.470 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, no worries. I was just going to say, I think that that is such helpful advice to kind of get to the point where where you don't know what to do next, because I think that is a great, I think, what you've highlighted there is that it's not necessarily that the manuscript is done, because, as you say. 107 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:39.638 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: you can keep working on a book indefinitely every published book there. I'm sure, ways that the authors would want to change it or go back and fix something or alter something a little bit. But 108 00:16:40.504 --> 00:17:02.110 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: but it's great advice to say either. You know I've done all I can, or even I don't know what to do next. And so it's helpful to kind of have someone else kind of. Come in and and support. I'm curious on that when you're ready to give it to somebody else. Who do you give it to first? st Are you bringing it at the stage? Kind of your editor or your agent, or do you let someone else read before that. 109 00:17:03.090 --> 00:17:21.199 Wanda M. Morris: Hmm! I have a couple of beta readers. Here's a a handy advice, Tip. Do not have your spouse, your mother, your you know Bestie be your beta, reader, because they all think everything you write is golden. So that's not gonna be helpful. 110 00:17:21.945 --> 00:17:32.690 Wanda M. Morris: But yeah, I have a couple of Beta readers that I usually will send it to on my last book. My Beta Reader was unable to do it because she had live stuff 111 00:17:33.366 --> 00:17:46.819 Wanda M. Morris: and so for that I I sent it to my agent, and I was like, Hey, could you take a look at this? And then I do that before I send it to my editor at the publishing house. 112 00:17:47.130 --> 00:18:02.979 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, great. Yeah. Okay. So I wanna zoom back, we've kind of been talking about editing. But I want to go back to the kind of idea, part of of drafting. So where do your ideas come from? Do you typically start with, you know, scenario character? 113 00:18:03.150 --> 00:18:06.200 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, what's what's the kind of inspiration for your work. 114 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:12.685 Wanda M. Morris: You know what? For me it always starts with characters. 115 00:18:13.530 --> 00:18:21.949 Wanda M. Morris: for example, with my 1st book at least, Little John was a character that had been roaming around in my head. 116 00:18:22.540 --> 00:18:23.930 Wanda M. Morris: She's 117 00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:36.580 Wanda M. Morris: for probably about 3 or 4 years before I even started writing the 1st scene like, I just kept thinking to myself, what would happen if you had a lawyer who 118 00:18:36.870 --> 00:18:38.279 Wanda M. Morris: blah! Blah blah blah blah 119 00:18:40.390 --> 00:18:43.338 Wanda M. Morris: I would think about that occasionally. 120 00:18:44.210 --> 00:18:54.642 Wanda M. Morris: And then it was that way with my second and my 3rd book, although in my 3rd book, the character evolved from who I originally thought she would be. 121 00:18:55.886 --> 00:19:02.899 Wanda M. Morris: But it always starts with a really interesting character, and it doesn't always have to be 122 00:19:03.566 --> 00:19:05.750 Wanda M. Morris: the protagonist, either like. 123 00:19:07.060 --> 00:19:08.450 Wanda M. Morris: And Melbourne. 124 00:19:08.560 --> 00:19:15.160 Wanda M. Morris: yesterday what you leave behind. I had a couple really interesting characters like 125 00:19:15.742 --> 00:19:19.050 Wanda M. Morris: Dina Wood is the protagonist. But her 126 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:24.670 Wanda M. Morris: father and her uncle to me were so interesting. And I thought. 127 00:19:24.750 --> 00:19:31.333 Wanda M. Morris: Oh, boy, yeah, that that could make a funny scene. And so 128 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:42.810 Wanda M. Morris: Once I have a character, I think that kind of fuels the engine, because then I have somebody for the reader to root, for I have somebody in place 129 00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:57.989 Wanda M. Morris: that all the other characters are going to bounce off of, and either influence or impact, or, you know, have some interaction with this main character. Yeah, I I for me it always starts with character. 130 00:19:58.560 --> 00:20:07.120 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: I was just gonna say, Wanda, a couple of people are mentioning that the Internet is a little slow on your end. Are you able to try the hotspot. 131 00:20:07.120 --> 00:20:16.159 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah, let me let me do that. If I fall out when I do the hotspot, I'll just come back in. So just okay, I apologize. 132 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:17.729 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Oh, no, totally fine. 133 00:20:17.900 --> 00:20:19.969 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Always happens. 134 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.699 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, it's 1 of those things where it always is a little bit difficult. 135 00:20:32.089 --> 00:20:49.080 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: While we're waiting for Wanda to rejoin. Just curious. If I saw the question on favorite course or workshop, I will ask that as we get a little bit later. But yeah, curious what everyone else is thinking so far. So are there any pieces of this, that kind of resonate with you? It looks like Philip is having 136 00:20:51.180 --> 00:20:54.600 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Philip's wife is one of the person reading, and 137 00:20:55.830 --> 00:21:02.009 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: well is not giving golden feedback, so we'll tell till tell it like it is. It sounds like a bit, Philip. 138 00:21:02.700 --> 00:21:05.820 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Michelle, I'm just gonna add that question into the Q. And a 139 00:21:05.870 --> 00:21:06.890 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: there we go 140 00:21:07.670 --> 00:21:11.690 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: alright. Hello, Wanda! Let me give you co-hosting 141 00:21:11.850 --> 00:21:14.489 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: so you can turn that camera back on. 142 00:21:17.090 --> 00:21:18.539 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Oh, Brian, there we go. 143 00:21:18.740 --> 00:21:20.640 Wanda M. Morris: Is this better? 144 00:21:21.126 --> 00:21:23.200 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Seems like it's a little bit clearer. 145 00:21:23.460 --> 00:21:25.750 Wanda M. Morris: Okay. I apologize for that. 146 00:21:25.940 --> 00:21:28.309 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: No worries. It truly always happens. It's totally. 147 00:21:28.310 --> 00:21:40.539 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah. And it is really, really windy here today. I I from the United States in in Atlanta. And it's it's really kinda ugly outside. 148 00:21:40.540 --> 00:21:59.910 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Oh, no, no worries well, it seems like it's better. That's what people are saying. The chat so great. And everyone was just in the chat, saying, while you were coming on, that your story is giving a lot of hope, which is which is really great. Feeling very hopeful. Okay. So I wanna kind of return. So you're starting with character now. 149 00:22:00.260 --> 00:22:05.530 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Crime, I feel like there's such a mystery. There's such a and thriller. There's such a 150 00:22:06.390 --> 00:22:11.364 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: plotting is so important. And you're trying to kind of move the readers through. 151 00:22:12.130 --> 00:22:26.859 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: you know, through a series of events that keeps them guessing and keeps that kind of action happening. So how do you go about determining what should happen? Like you have this character. You have this scenario, what you know. How are you building the bones of of the story arc, so to speak. 152 00:22:27.080 --> 00:22:40.368 Wanda M. Morris: Hmm! Well, 1st and foremost, I think I lean heavily on being a plotter versus like, I cannot just go to the computer. 153 00:22:40.970 --> 00:22:51.529 Wanda M. Morris: open that bad boy up and start typing? I never. I've tried. I tried repeatedly, and I've never been able to do that. I wound up, staring at a blank screen. 154 00:22:51.590 --> 00:22:58.060 Wanda M. Morris: So I usually just get, you know, old fashioned pen and paper. 155 00:22:58.070 --> 00:23:05.280 Wanda M. Morris: And I start with a loose outline. And when I say a loose outline, I mean, like really loose like. 156 00:23:05.340 --> 00:23:10.410 Wanda M. Morris: I will just jot down what I think are the big sayings like. 157 00:23:10.820 --> 00:23:14.509 Wanda M. Morris: what does the opening look like? What happens in the opening. 158 00:23:16.310 --> 00:23:26.020 Wanda M. Morris: What is kind of the 1st plot point that thrust the protagonist into whatever big mystery she's about to undertake? 159 00:23:26.667 --> 00:23:29.240 Wanda M. Morris: What does that seem going to be. 160 00:23:29.410 --> 00:23:49.600 Wanda M. Morris: and then I if there are a couple of other scenes that I kinda think in my mind might be important to the story, I jot those down. I will always try and figure out what the midpoint of the book is going to be. Now I know this sounds kind of weird. But I think 161 00:23:49.870 --> 00:23:55.269 Wanda M. Morris: you know, when somebody, if your book say on average is 350 pages 162 00:23:56.542 --> 00:24:19.617 Wanda M. Morris: you know, by page 175. Everybody should kinda know what's going on in the story and what is going to be kind of the kicker that launches the protagonist into the second half of the story, and so I try and figure out, is there some big scene, some big car crash, some big death, or whatever it is? 163 00:24:20.060 --> 00:24:25.439 Wanda M. Morris: And then, if a few more scenes that will come off of that, I jot those down. 164 00:24:25.550 --> 00:24:42.449 Wanda M. Morris: I usually don't know how my books will end. Sometimes I do sometimes I don't, so I don't necessarily have an ending in mind. When I start the book. If I do bonus points, if I don't, I don't kick myself for that. 165 00:24:42.560 --> 00:24:49.300 Wanda M. Morris: Once. I've got that. And like I said, it's very loose. We're talking 2 pages, Max. 166 00:24:50.770 --> 00:24:52.889 Wanda M. Morris: then I 167 00:24:52.930 --> 00:24:57.780 Wanda M. Morris: we'll start with the opening scene, because for me, I always feel like 168 00:24:58.470 --> 00:25:21.140 Wanda M. Morris: I wanna grab the reader kinda metaphorically by the throat and snatch them into the story. And so I try to figure out what that opening scene is going to be like now. It doesn't have to be like a big car. Crash! It can be like a really big emotional scene, a scene that, you know, makes the reader feel some kind of way. 169 00:25:21.838 --> 00:25:27.741 Wanda M. Morris: And then that is the scene that I tried to write with. I tend to write 170 00:25:28.130 --> 00:25:29.730 Wanda M. Morris: very linear 171 00:25:30.370 --> 00:25:37.039 Wanda M. Morris: but then, I mean, you know, chapter one moves into chapter 2 into chapter 3, because for me. 172 00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:52.153 Wanda M. Morris: The story plays out in my mind kind of like a movie, and I'm kind of sitting there watching the characters as they kind of do their thing in the story, and so I usually start with my opening. My second book was, 173 00:25:53.530 --> 00:26:00.679 Wanda M. Morris: anywhere you run, and that was dual timelines. So I had my protagonist 174 00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:04.410 Wanda M. Morris: as you know 175 00:26:04.750 --> 00:26:09.709 Wanda M. Morris: a a young girl. Excuse me, my 1st book. All her little secrets was dual timeline 176 00:26:10.106 --> 00:26:13.809 Wanda M. Morris: and so I had her as a 14 year old girl. 177 00:26:13.840 --> 00:26:18.200 Wanda M. Morris: and then as a working adult, she was a lawyer inside of a corporation. 178 00:26:18.220 --> 00:26:24.770 Wanda M. Morris: so I still did that in a linear fashion. But by the time I finish the book 179 00:26:24.990 --> 00:26:27.570 Wanda M. Morris: I realize that some of the 180 00:26:28.260 --> 00:26:33.870 Wanda M. Morris: 14 year old scenes were kinda out of place like they didn't connect as well. 181 00:26:33.870 --> 00:26:34.900 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Hmm, yeah. 182 00:26:34.900 --> 00:26:44.989 Wanda M. Morris: So that particular book when I was writing that I went back through, and I just revised all the 14 year old scenes her as a young girl. 183 00:26:45.080 --> 00:26:49.929 Wanda M. Morris: and then went back and revised all the scenes where she was a working adult. 184 00:26:49.970 --> 00:27:04.689 Wanda M. Morris: and then made the the chapters click together that way, so that one I had to kind of find my way. But again I was learning how to write a book right? With my second book. Excuse me that anywhere you run 185 00:27:04.870 --> 00:27:07.740 Wanda M. Morris: that book was multiple. POV. 186 00:27:07.770 --> 00:27:12.399 Wanda M. Morris: And so I had the story told in 3 different points of view. 187 00:27:12.810 --> 00:27:34.608 Wanda M. Morris: 2 female characters and a male character. And again I wrote it in a linear fashion, and fortunately this time it all kinda clicked, and and when I say clicked. I mean that this seems dovetailed one into the other, because that's what's really important. If you're doing something in terms of 188 00:27:35.613 --> 00:27:36.176 Wanda M. Morris: structure. 189 00:27:37.043 --> 00:27:37.346 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: It, 190 00:27:37.650 --> 00:27:51.619 Wanda M. Morris: Of crafting a book that has a certain structure. So when you're doing multiple Pov, you know, some people think, Oh, you just write this person's perspective boom, and then you go to the next. And for me I feel like 191 00:27:51.870 --> 00:28:04.610 Wanda M. Morris: they should click like somehow, if you're leaving one person's point of view to go into another, there should be some kind of segue, or some kind of tie tie there. Yeah. 192 00:28:04.730 --> 00:28:07.429 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, I completely agree. I think some of my 193 00:28:08.070 --> 00:28:18.240 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: I think you can always tell when an author has been intentional about ha! The kind of relationship from scene to scene or from chapter to chapter, point of view to point of view. It's kind of like 194 00:28:18.360 --> 00:28:46.199 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: there's and it can be as literal as oh, it's picking up from from this character's point of view, or can be like this, reminded, you know, reminded this character of this thing, and this character is now focusing on it over here, or something like that. I'm curious. The journey from all her little secrets, which is single point of view into the triple point of view. Did you approach getting into the characters heads any any different way? Were you writing you mentioned writing sequentially? Were you writing 195 00:28:46.700 --> 00:28:56.539 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: sequentially within one Pov and then switching to another? Or we, you were just kind of going sequentially back and forth between the 3 Povs. For anywhere you run. 196 00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:13.975 Wanda M. Morris: I went, you know, from one to the other whoever's hit I was in, and the reason why I did it that way is because the story is a it's a cat mouse chase. Just very quickly anywhere you run is about these 2 sisters. 197 00:29:14.771 --> 00:29:25.728 Wanda M. Morris: Who are growing up in the oppression of the Jim Crow South. This is during segregation of the 19 sixties here in in this country. 198 00:29:26.902 --> 00:29:31.330 Wanda M. Morris: and one of the sisters becomes embroiled in the murder 199 00:29:31.750 --> 00:29:34.119 Wanda M. Morris: of 3 civil rights activists. 200 00:29:34.250 --> 00:29:38.919 Wanda M. Morris: She realizes she's now you know, in danger. 201 00:29:39.538 --> 00:29:41.629 Wanda M. Morris: And she takes off running 202 00:29:42.546 --> 00:29:48.799 Wanda M. Morris: her sister, who's left behind. The police come to her door looking for the sister 203 00:29:49.148 --> 00:30:07.320 Wanda M. Morris: and this particularist also realizes she's now pregnant, and I'm way, which was like a big No, no, for girls in the 19 sixties, so she decides to take off running as well. But what the 2 sisters don't realize is that there's a really dangerous man who knows about the murder of the civil rights activist 204 00:30:07.982 --> 00:30:11.910 Wanda M. Morris: and he takes off in pursuit of the 2 sisters. 205 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:17.470 Wanda M. Morris: And so, because I needed this man constantly on their tail 206 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:25.499 Wanda M. Morris: when I left. The 2 sisters are violet and miracle, so if I left Violet's point of view. 207 00:30:25.750 --> 00:30:54.249 Wanda M. Morris: I made sure that if I were bringing Mercer, who is the the guy following them? If I brought him into the story, it had to be at some point where he's close to her. He knows where she's she is, and so he has, you know, some tip about how to find her, so that the story like I talked about before dovetails. And then when I left Mercer's Perspective and say I was going into miracle, the second sister's perspective 208 00:30:54.430 --> 00:31:10.360 Wanda M. Morris: that I made sure that I left Mercer at a place where he realizes. Oh, she has a sister. Maybe I could find something out about the sister. And then I brought the sister's perspective in. So he's constantly chasing these 2 women. 209 00:31:10.450 --> 00:31:17.260 Wanda M. Morris: So I wrote it sequentially in the order which he's chasing them. Now, I don't know if it makes sense, but. 210 00:31:17.570 --> 00:31:18.510 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, no, it does. 211 00:31:18.850 --> 00:31:28.649 Wanda M. Morris: For me. I couldn't just write all of Mercer scenes, because I needed to know what the 2 sisters were doing in order to mercy's perspective. If that makes sense. 212 00:31:28.650 --> 00:31:37.765 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, no, it does make sense. I'm also curious with with what you believe behind. No. Sorry with any anywhere you run. 213 00:31:38.580 --> 00:31:42.170 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: I I'm curious about the 214 00:31:42.780 --> 00:31:48.810 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: the historical backdrop and kind of how you approached research for that, because I feel like, you know. 215 00:31:49.120 --> 00:31:50.752 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: there's a lot of 216 00:31:51.310 --> 00:32:11.290 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: I just imagine that in that kind of world building you're trying you. You're going to have to be very intentional about the details you include. So I'm curious kind of your research process for that. And then also, how did you go about building a world? That's a real world and kind of making it come alive in that way? Was it any different than something more contemporary. 217 00:32:14.360 --> 00:32:26.449 Wanda M. Morris: that's a great question. I mean, I did a ton of research like a lot of research that didn't even make it into the book. Because, you know, of course, you have page limits. But 218 00:32:26.910 --> 00:32:34.060 Wanda M. Morris: for me, I really wanted to immerse the reader in what 219 00:32:35.070 --> 00:32:37.599 Wanda M. Morris: 1960 S. 220 00:32:37.780 --> 00:32:39.370 Wanda M. Morris: Segregated 221 00:32:39.630 --> 00:32:42.990 Wanda M. Morris: Southern America felt like, right? 222 00:32:43.290 --> 00:32:52.690 Wanda M. Morris: So I didn't just research like the civil rights movement and protest, civil rights protests and things like that. 223 00:32:52.990 --> 00:32:54.629 Wanda M. Morris: I also researched. 224 00:32:54.690 --> 00:32:56.410 Wanda M. Morris: what did they wear? 225 00:32:57.031 --> 00:33:03.930 Wanda M. Morris: What kind of music would 2 sisters, who are 21 and 22 years old, listen to 226 00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:07.235 Wanda M. Morris: in Mississippi, and one of the sisters ultimately 227 00:33:08.510 --> 00:33:17.790 Wanda M. Morris: runs up to the north. So what kind of music was was going on there? What kinds of parties would they go to? 228 00:33:18.876 --> 00:33:23.270 Wanda M. Morris: There was there was a time that 229 00:33:23.410 --> 00:33:24.600 Wanda M. Morris: you know. 230 00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:28.430 Wanda M. Morris: you had to go to a wall and pick up a phone right? Because. 231 00:33:28.430 --> 00:33:28.780 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. 232 00:33:28.780 --> 00:33:32.229 Wanda M. Morris: To be attached. Wall, right, there was no such thing as 233 00:33:32.570 --> 00:33:41.489 Wanda M. Morris: a cell phone. And so I wanted to know what was that like, like, if you were making a phone call. And you're on the run right? 234 00:33:41.670 --> 00:33:56.520 Wanda M. Morris: You can't just call somebody else's cell phone. You had to call and you had to hope that they would be at home. And what if you didn't have any money to put in the phone? If you're in a public pay phone. So for my booth, there was a lot of collect calls. That's. 235 00:33:56.520 --> 00:33:57.150 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: The. 236 00:33:57.150 --> 00:34:08.990 Wanda M. Morris: You used to call calls where you charge the call to the other person. Right? You used to charge for calls. So it was all that stuff that I researched. What did that feel like? What do people drink? What do people eat? 237 00:34:09.514 --> 00:34:16.469 Wanda M. Morris: And so there is a library here. I write from Atlanta, Georgia, in the United States. 238 00:34:17.010 --> 00:34:24.880 Wanda M. Morris: There's a library here called the Auburn Avenue Librarian, African American history and research. 239 00:34:25.739 --> 00:34:29.639 Wanda M. Morris: It's dedicated exclusively to archiving 240 00:34:30.238 --> 00:34:42.859 Wanda M. Morris: the African American experience. The diaspora of Africans to this country. So they had a wealth of information. Because the book 241 00:34:43.536 --> 00:34:46.120 Wanda M. Morris: is intricately tied to 242 00:34:47.762 --> 00:35:08.150 Wanda M. Morris: an infamous murder that occurred here of 3 civil rights workers. I was able to find a lot of research about that particular murder by segregationist. And so that was kind of the overarching information that I needed, you know, for the story. But I needed all those small details. 243 00:35:08.878 --> 00:35:30.862 Wanda M. Morris: To kind of serve as the the the engine of making the story go. Mercer drives the beatable car. What do cars look like back then? And so I was, you know, looking up what you know, 1955, desotos look like in this country. 244 00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:41.073 Wanda M. Morris: And all that's to say that if you are. Gonna do that kind of world building that's built on a reality? It's not fantasy or something you're creating 245 00:35:41.500 --> 00:36:00.909 Wanda M. Morris: for me. I wanted to make sure that I th that it was authentic that the story rang true in terms of that. Now, of course, it's fictional. So what the characters do within the story, you know. That's up to me completely. But I wanted to make sure that all these details are right. Cause. 246 00:36:01.250 --> 00:36:01.820 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. 247 00:36:01.820 --> 00:36:10.043 Wanda M. Morris: 1st thing you want is for somebody, you know, who's a reader to say I was alive in 1964. And yeah, blah blah blah. 248 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:11.233 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Oh, yeah. 249 00:36:11.670 --> 00:36:12.520 Wanda M. Morris: Exactly. 250 00:36:12.520 --> 00:36:19.410 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: It's so true, though. I those kind of anachronisms, I mean, they happen. It's a great point that I think a lot of times we think about. 251 00:36:19.410 --> 00:36:44.380 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: There's a lot of conversation around anachronisms, and like fantasy or sci-fi, where you know some, they'll talk about something that wouldn't exist in this like medieval fantasy, world or something. But it's really true, for I mean it's true for contemporary. And it's true for historical fiction as well. I remember reading a really like popular and well recommended book recently, but they called the name of the like underground Metro in that particular city like a different 252 00:36:44.380 --> 00:37:02.759 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: then it like. Then it goes by colloqui colloquially. And I was just like, Oh, it takes me out because this character's from here. They would never call it that, you know they would call it this other thing, and it took me so far out of the book that I was like I just couldn't get back into it like it just happens. And then the main character also happened to do 253 00:37:02.940 --> 00:37:20.510 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: this teaching program that I had done, and it was like so vastly different from my experience. That I was like, I just can't get back into this, even though this is like this. Well regarded objectively. Good book. It really took like as a reader, just completely took me out. And so yeah, that attention to detail support. 254 00:37:20.510 --> 00:37:44.920 Wanda M. Morris: That's the absolute worst thing right? Don't wanna take the reader out of your story, because sometimes they'll leave the story and they won't come back right, or if they stay with the story, they're now looking at it with a skeptical eye, right? Because they're like, I don't know, you know, she said. This other thing 3 chapters ago. I don't know if I should believe this. And really, what you're doing 255 00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:54.889 Wanda M. Morris: is you're trying to make the reader feel a certain way, think a certain way. And so now, if they're looking at the rest of your story with skeptical, I you kinda lose them. 256 00:37:54.890 --> 00:38:12.330 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. And I think it goes both ways to it. Both helps keep people in the story, but also provides those kind of moments for delight. So for people who do know, you know what people were listening to in the north of the United States in 1964, they feel like, oh, that's yeah, exactly like exactly that. Like it creates. 257 00:38:12.330 --> 00:38:12.650 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah. 258 00:38:12.650 --> 00:38:31.919 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Like, Oh, wow! This is really, this is really my, the world that I that I lived in, and it creates that like further immersiveness. So I am curious. I'm always curious about the exploration of setting and time period through different genres, because I think a lot of times people think about 259 00:38:31.940 --> 00:38:51.476 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: again, like giving the example of fantasy like they think about fantasy as a genre which it is. But you can have thriller stories in a fantasy, setting or romance like you could have all of this type of thing, and think the same thing with your work, like a historical novel, could be a thriller as yours are could be. There's romance, you know, there's coming of age stories. So I'm curious. What's 260 00:38:51.740 --> 00:39:05.559 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: I guess attracted you to explore kind of historical settings and historical problems through the thriller genre, specifically. And I guess that this ties into, you know why you write thriller in the 1st place. But yeah, it's just something I'm always interested in as well. 261 00:39:05.870 --> 00:39:22.384 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah, I'll take the second part of that question first.st I think I write thrillers. I you know, I'm sure there's something, you know, in some deep psychological level. Why, I am mining the depths of my psyche for these dark stories. 262 00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:44.100 Wanda M. Morris: but I think I enjoy thrillers, and so I try to write what I enjoy, hoping that the reader will enjoy it as well. I love not only kind of the puzzle nature of figuring out a mystery, and that kind of pulse pounding that you get with, you know. Kind of these high octane scenes. 263 00:39:44.564 --> 00:39:48.820 Wanda M. Morris: Or even if it's quiet suspense, I like that in a book. 264 00:39:48.890 --> 00:39:49.970 Wanda M. Morris: But 265 00:39:50.270 --> 00:39:56.806 Wanda M. Morris: I also write thrillers because there aren't a ton of black female thriller writers. 266 00:39:57.910 --> 00:40:12.900 Wanda M. Morris: you know no disrespect to the boys, but I think the girls ought to have their day as well, and so for me I would read thrillers by other authors, and I go. You know that was a really really great book. 267 00:40:14.700 --> 00:40:23.470 Wanda M. Morris: I think a female might have handled that situation differently, or you know, I don't think a black woman would have really done that in a book. 268 00:40:23.570 --> 00:40:40.394 Wanda M. Morris: And so I tried to, you know. Emulate. What is it that Tony Morrison said. You know. Write the book that you. You want to read or write the book that you can't find. It's some quote like that. And so I I couldn't find those books. And so I tried to write something that I would like. 269 00:40:41.570 --> 00:40:56.178 Wanda M. Morris: But as far as blending genres you know, my second book was a blend of historical and thriller my 1st book was a blend of women's fiction and thriller 270 00:40:56.790 --> 00:41:05.889 Wanda M. Morris: Somebody told me the other day they reviewed the book, and they said in the review, Oh, you know Wanda, more's Mixes. 271 00:41:06.506 --> 00:41:13.249 Wanda M. Morris: history and contemporary. In her 3rd book I was like, oh, I didn't even realize I was doing that. I was. 272 00:41:13.290 --> 00:41:17.709 Wanda M. Morris: I was. I was thinking I was given some background to the context of the story. 273 00:41:17.900 --> 00:41:18.870 Wanda M. Morris: but 274 00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:20.960 Wanda M. Morris: I find that 275 00:41:22.170 --> 00:41:33.600 Wanda M. Morris: in blending the genres it actually stretched my my craft in the way that I write stories right? Because I'd never written a historical book. 276 00:41:33.947 --> 00:41:41.149 Wanda M. Morris: I like history, but it never even ventured to to say, Yeah, this is the genre that I wanted to write in. 277 00:41:41.160 --> 00:41:49.109 Wanda M. Morris: But what I did is I set out to write a really interesting story right? I wanted to tackle this issue of 278 00:41:49.330 --> 00:41:50.990 Wanda M. Morris: segregation 279 00:41:51.050 --> 00:42:12.780 Wanda M. Morris: in the South in the 19 sixties, and it wanted to draw parallels to what was going on in current day. Right in this country. We're still dealing with voting rights, and why some people are still not having full access to voting polls. We're still dealing with racism. We're still dealing with a woman's right to govern her own body. 280 00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:14.710 Wanda M. Morris: still dealing with? 281 00:42:15.410 --> 00:42:19.550 Wanda M. Morris: you know, lesbian and gay rights and trans. Rights. And so 282 00:42:19.820 --> 00:42:21.289 Wanda M. Morris: I thought to myself. 283 00:42:21.520 --> 00:42:25.499 Wanda M. Morris: why is it that we can't figure this out 60 years later? 284 00:42:25.720 --> 00:42:35.229 Wanda M. Morris: And so I set out to write a story that would draw those parallels for the reader. And so then that meant, of course, I had to examine the history around. 285 00:42:35.510 --> 00:42:36.070 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: All those. 286 00:42:36.070 --> 00:42:47.329 Wanda M. Morris: Queues. So it's not like it necessarily set out to blend genres. I think it just kinda comes as a result of wanting to tell. 287 00:42:47.640 --> 00:42:52.459 Wanda M. Morris: You know some certain story. My 3rd book 288 00:42:52.800 --> 00:43:09.810 Wanda M. Morris: examines the Golggei community, which is a community that has remained intact, descendants of formerly enslaved West and Central Africans that were brought to this country. And so these people can point directly back to 289 00:43:10.100 --> 00:43:18.300 Wanda M. Morris: the the slave tribes that they came from. Excuse me, the African tribes that they came from before they were enslaved in this country 290 00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:37.099 Wanda M. Morris: and that particular community today is being decimated by a real estate that because they live along the coast of America, and that has become very, very valuable. Property that real estate developers would love to get their hands on. So 291 00:43:37.240 --> 00:43:43.709 Wanda M. Morris: I wanted to write about what happens to this community. What happens 292 00:43:43.930 --> 00:43:56.740 Wanda M. Morris: to black and brown and poor white communities when someone, a real estate developer comes in and and takes their property. And so I didn't necessarily set out 293 00:43:56.880 --> 00:44:09.070 Wanda M. Morris: to blend history with that. But I think you have to understand the context of the Gallagher community, and how they are descended from slaves. And so I think that's the historical part that comes in. 294 00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:26.450 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, that's such a really interesting and I think inspirational way to think about it, because I feel like just speaking myself as an aspiring novelist. I feel like there's a lot of attention paid to. Well, what genre is this? And I do think there is 295 00:44:27.510 --> 00:44:55.610 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: to market something effectively and get it published. You do have to kind of conform to genre conventions to some extent. But I also think what what's really beautiful and what you're saying is kind of understand. It's not necessarily intentionally choosing a setting or thinking about that second genre, but really seeing what kind of serves the story you're trying to tell and then figuring out, and then that might bring you into something else. But it's actually it's in service of the larger story and the larger themes you're exploring rather than this kind of 296 00:44:55.610 --> 00:45:08.279 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: of like. Well, I'm setting out to write a historical novel. So because I'm writing a historical novel, it has to be in history. It's more starting with, yeah, the the kind of themes and the characters and then and then locating that 297 00:45:08.950 --> 00:45:12.130 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: later, I guess in in kind of time and place. If that makes sense. 298 00:45:12.130 --> 00:45:24.450 Wanda M. Morris: Absolutely. Yeah. The 3rd book actually has a paranormal aspect. And the reason why I delve into paranormal is because that's central to the Golgi community. So. 299 00:45:24.450 --> 00:45:38.509 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, yeah, very interesting. Okay, I've got a couple of more questions. And then we're gonna just go to the audience questions, so one of the questions I think that people always are wondering is, how do you kind of handle and 300 00:45:38.510 --> 00:45:57.419 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: and characterize the feedback and criticism that you get. I think this is another thing that comes from, you know, work with editors, agents, whether that's your Beta readers, you know. How do you know what to listen to. How do you know what to say? Say? No to and then also, how do you kind of keep your morale up as the as you're yeah dealing with that. 301 00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:58.090 Wanda M. Morris: Of 302 00:45:58.200 --> 00:46:04.390 Wanda M. Morris: that is a fantastic question. Cause, man, when I was querying. 303 00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:21.020 Wanda M. Morris: that is hard, I tell people, if if you are starting to dip your toe into the querying trenches, you know. Get some good strong calluses, because it's hard to hear criticism. But 304 00:46:21.130 --> 00:46:26.669 Wanda M. Morris: what I also tell people is to flip that around right, that 305 00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:36.909 Wanda M. Morris: that criticism could actually be a gift. If it's done in the right way, it could be constructive. So when I was querying my 1st book. 306 00:46:37.120 --> 00:46:38.590 Wanda M. Morris: and 307 00:46:38.720 --> 00:46:40.750 Wanda M. Morris: I had one agent. 308 00:46:40.870 --> 00:46:46.489 Wanda M. Morris: and I can't remember exactly how she phrased it, but the gist of it was. 309 00:46:46.720 --> 00:46:48.920 Wanda M. Morris: I do not understand 310 00:46:49.150 --> 00:46:52.490 Wanda M. Morris: why your protagonist would make 311 00:46:52.600 --> 00:46:59.239 Wanda M. Morris: these God awful decisions? Because in my 1st book she does. She makes some really, really poor decisions. 312 00:47:00.139 --> 00:47:08.409 Wanda M. Morris: But she says, you know if she's so smart and she's a lawyer, and she's Ivy League educated. 313 00:47:08.500 --> 00:47:12.769 Wanda M. Morris: and she's got all this going for why would she make these awful decisions? 314 00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:16.280 Wanda M. Morris: And that was hard to hear when I read that email. 315 00:47:16.330 --> 00:47:25.549 Wanda M. Morris: But then I realized it was actually a gift, because that told me that that agent as a reader did not understand 316 00:47:25.650 --> 00:47:32.410 Wanda M. Morris: what I had conceived in my mind. Obviously what I had conceived I had not translated to paper very well. 317 00:47:32.860 --> 00:47:35.270 Wanda M. Morris: and that if, in fact. 318 00:47:35.490 --> 00:47:40.839 Wanda M. Morris: this woman had a reason for making such poor decisions. I needed to find a better way 319 00:47:40.950 --> 00:47:43.950 Wanda M. Morris: to express that on the page. 320 00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:50.040 Wanda M. Morris: In doing that it made me go back and change the whole structure of my novel. 321 00:47:50.150 --> 00:47:56.530 Wanda M. Morris: because before my novel was just linear contemporary 322 00:47:57.425 --> 00:47:57.990 Wanda M. Morris: set. 323 00:47:58.650 --> 00:48:08.609 Wanda M. Morris: And that's when I broke it down into the dual timelines to show her so 14 year old girl, because something very traumatic happens to her when she's 14 324 00:48:08.670 --> 00:48:31.979 Wanda M. Morris: the summer before she goes off to an elite boarding school, and that trauma impacts the decisions that she makes as a working adult. And that's when I opened up. And I I was like. Oh, my gosh! So all that's to say! You know your book better than anybody else knows your book. Agents, editors, beta readers, friends, family. 325 00:48:33.020 --> 00:48:33.900 Wanda M. Morris: whomever 326 00:48:34.270 --> 00:48:50.670 Wanda M. Morris: you know what you want these characters to do. You know the message that you're trying to say so? What you wanna do when you're looking at criticism that comes in is that you wanna skeptical? I you wanna say, Okay, this particular criticism. 327 00:48:51.020 --> 00:49:04.189 Wanda M. Morris: Does this help me move the story forward? Is this something that I can change, and will make the story better if it's just crude criticism. And it's like this. 328 00:49:04.200 --> 00:49:08.160 Wanda M. Morris: this sucks that's not useful to you. Right? You can't do 329 00:49:08.500 --> 00:49:10.650 Wanda M. Morris: they? They would 330 00:49:10.900 --> 00:49:16.869 Wanda M. Morris: that that's not anything that's going to help you move your story forward. So you disregard that. 331 00:49:17.140 --> 00:49:19.459 Wanda M. Morris: But if somebody tells you 332 00:49:19.610 --> 00:49:29.839 Wanda M. Morris: oh, the setting didn't feel real to me, because I didn't know that light posts could be structured upside down, and you could flip a switch. I mean, whatever it is. 333 00:49:29.840 --> 00:49:30.850 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Just take that out. 334 00:49:30.850 --> 00:49:47.170 Wanda M. Morris: So what I'm saying is, if somebody gives you something you're like. Oh, then that means that they don't understand how electrical light poles work in London, you know, in 1877. Maybe I need to explain that in the book that's something you can work with. 335 00:49:47.270 --> 00:49:50.940 Wanda M. Morris: So for people who are querying and starting out. 336 00:49:51.190 --> 00:50:03.310 Wanda M. Morris: look at that criticism, and see if there's something in there that you can use to improve the story if it's not let it go. That's where the call is in. It hurts. But you gotta let it go 337 00:50:03.440 --> 00:50:05.370 Wanda M. Morris: now if you're published 338 00:50:05.550 --> 00:50:07.660 Wanda M. Morris: and you're getting criticism. 339 00:50:08.408 --> 00:50:17.679 Wanda M. Morris: the same rules apply. But I also look at it with a much within much finer detail, right? Because 340 00:50:17.710 --> 00:50:32.999 Wanda M. Morris: I know the themes that I'm trying to cover. I know the message that I want this novel or this story to tell. So is someone telling me that my themes don't land, that my themes don't resonate 341 00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:58.849 Wanda M. Morris: that to me is a bigger issue, because then that says that the message of the book is not coming across, and that I'll need to talk to like my editor about, or my agent, or whoever is, is revising the work or reviewing the work. Then that's something that's much larger than just saying, oh, you need to examine your characterizations or blah blah blah blah blah! Does that make sense. 342 00:50:58.850 --> 00:51:02.017 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, definitely does and I think it's also 343 00:51:02.380 --> 00:51:09.500 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: what you were saying about. The kind of informative feedback from editors is really useful as well, because I think it's. 344 00:51:09.810 --> 00:51:17.339 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: I think, what's always struck me about working with professional editors or agents, etc, is a they. 345 00:51:17.880 --> 00:51:44.779 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: They their goal is to sell your book and to make it better. So if they're giving you constructive feedback, it's not to hurt your feelings, but it's to make this project better. And then B, if they just refute, they opt out because they've rejected you, or something like that. That's also probably a blessing in disguise, because you kind of want someone who's going to care enough to give you the feedback like they they should care enough to help you improve and make it better and kind of be passionate about pulling the best out of the project in that way. 346 00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:47.370 Wanda M. Morris: Absolutely, absolutely. 347 00:51:47.490 --> 00:52:00.889 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Okay, great. Well, let's see if we can go into some of the audience questions. So someone asked about your favorite course or workshop. So as you were learning about writing, was there anything that you've loved, or even anything you've returned to. 348 00:52:01.700 --> 00:52:12.069 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah, I did. Yale writers workshop, which is given every summer at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. 349 00:52:13.180 --> 00:52:17.310 Wanda M. Morris: Man. The 1st time I did it 2 years in a row. 350 00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:20.779 Wanda M. Morris: and the 1st year I did it. 351 00:52:21.676 --> 00:52:22.870 Wanda M. Morris: I had 352 00:52:23.010 --> 00:52:27.900 Wanda M. Morris: query my book. I got a ton of rejection. 353 00:52:28.470 --> 00:52:30.549 Wanda M. Morris: Some helpful, some. Not 354 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:50.060 Wanda M. Morris: so when I went to this particular workshop, it's like it could be one week or 2 week your choice and I just did the the 1st week, and I learned so much and part of the workshop process. And it doesn't have to be all right. This workshop. 355 00:52:50.060 --> 00:53:12.073 Wanda M. Morris: Most workshops operate this way where you read a portion of you know whatever project you're working on out loud, and then you sit there while you know everybody else in the workshop gives, you, you know, purportedly construct a criticism. Most people are very nice when they have to tell you to your face. Your writing sucks. 356 00:53:12.890 --> 00:53:25.929 Wanda M. Morris: but that process just going through that process alone was so very helpful. Because it gave me insight to what people 357 00:53:26.090 --> 00:53:32.559 Wanda M. Morris: think when they read your work like, or they hear your work. So I would read it, and then somebody would say. 358 00:53:32.750 --> 00:53:40.509 Wanda M. Morris: Well, why does your character do blah blah blah blah blah, and I'm like, Oh, I didn't even craft that scene 359 00:53:40.510 --> 00:54:10.060 Wanda M. Morris: with that thought in mind. Right? I I crafted that scene because I wanted you to be in this lush setting and feel some certain way about it. And you know somebody's like well, why would she walk into that scene? I thought she was lawyer. Why, she out in the rainforest, you know, whatever it was, and I thought, oh, so it makes you think beyond just kind of your story in your head. You're now thinking, Oh, yeah, what does a reader look for when they come to my work? And so. 360 00:54:10.080 --> 00:54:19.529 Wanda M. Morris: you know, I always tell people if you can get into some kind of workshop or class or something where you are getting 361 00:54:20.160 --> 00:54:21.830 Wanda M. Morris: real time feedback. 362 00:54:22.217 --> 00:54:35.890 Wanda M. Morris: it's super super help. Because then I was able to say, Oh, here's what I think, and the people like, Oh, maybe you should consider doing XY, and Z. But yeah, the Yale writers workshop was was an awesome one for me. 363 00:54:36.180 --> 00:54:49.910 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Amazing. Okay, a couple of quick other questions. So David says, what an honor to listen to you! Your humbleness says so much about you. Thanks for sharing. And Ts, was there any moment you thought about giving up with when faced with so much rejection? 364 00:54:51.004 --> 00:54:53.791 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah, like every other day. 365 00:54:55.700 --> 00:54:57.754 Wanda M. Morris: I seriously, I 366 00:54:59.030 --> 00:55:05.010 Wanda M. Morris: man, those were rough days. I'm I'm I'm not gonna lie. I thought 367 00:55:05.340 --> 00:55:06.720 Wanda M. Morris: I must be 368 00:55:06.930 --> 00:55:11.829 Wanda M. Morris: like crazy like, why am I trying to write a book and get published? 369 00:55:12.100 --> 00:55:16.760 Wanda M. Morris: I have a job, remember, at the time I was a working lawyer. I have a job 370 00:55:17.120 --> 00:55:38.810 Wanda M. Morris: I have. By the time by the time I finally got published I had 3 kids right like I wrote a book and had a baby, and that baby went through, you know, elementary school by the time I got published. So that's how long I was in this. But I kept thinking to myself, I have these 3 kids. I have this stressful job. Why am I trying to do this? 371 00:55:38.860 --> 00:55:45.540 Wanda M. Morris: And it was just at those moments where I would get an email. And somebody would say, This is trash. And I'm like, you're right. 372 00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:46.960 Wanda M. Morris: So 373 00:55:47.250 --> 00:56:12.489 Wanda M. Morris: what I finally did, I think 2 things, one. I really really believed in these characters that I had written. I loved Elise, Little John, I loved her godmother, Vera. I I loved her brother Sam, and this little triumphant that they had where it was them against the world. I just believed this had to be something somebody else would wanna read. 374 00:56:12.973 --> 00:56:35.959 Wanda M. Morris: Beyond that I had a support mechanism. I urge any of you out there who are writing, whether you just starting out or you know you're well season. Make sure you have a support mechanism, whether that's family, whether that's, you know, other writers, whether that's, you know, teachers, whomever you need somebody 375 00:56:36.110 --> 00:56:43.230 Wanda M. Morris: that understands that this is a tough business. Publishing is hard. It's a tough, tough business. 376 00:56:43.730 --> 00:56:52.389 Wanda M. Morris: but they understand. And they lift you up. Not just that. They say, Oh, it's gonna get better. But they're like, what can I do to help you? 377 00:56:52.540 --> 00:57:13.269 Wanda M. Morris: What if you just go away for the weekend? And I'll take the kids and you go right? Or can I make dinner tonight? And you just go right, for you know, whatever it is, whatever you need find somebody that can help you with that, and then return the favor right? I always say, make friends before you need them. 378 00:57:14.100 --> 00:57:28.401 Wanda M. Morris: As those people who are supporting you now in your writing journey in your early writing journey are the same people that you want to support to as they are going up. As you both are climbing this kind of ladder 379 00:57:29.226 --> 00:57:46.300 Wanda M. Morris: to publishing success, you wanna support each other so support other writers to, you know. Buy their books if you can support them on social media, do whatever because those are the people that will support you as well, but 380 00:57:46.660 --> 00:57:56.490 Wanda M. Morris: always make sure that you have some support mechanism in place, because I just don't think people can do this in isolation. It's it's too hard. 381 00:57:56.490 --> 00:57:56.810 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. 382 00:57:56.810 --> 00:57:57.620 Wanda M. Morris: To R. 383 00:57:58.170 --> 00:58:03.960 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Well, in the spirit of that, just the final question is, do you have a favorite re recent thriller novel that you've read. 384 00:58:04.980 --> 00:58:17.999 Wanda M. Morris: Oh, yeah. Oh, gosh! I wish I know you wanna ask that cover so I could show you. I read at night before I go to sleep. And so all my books are upstairs in my bed. 385 00:58:18.000 --> 00:58:18.997 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: No no worries. 386 00:58:19.330 --> 00:58:21.269 Wanda M. Morris: Yeah, I've got plenty of mine down here. 387 00:58:21.270 --> 00:58:21.980 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Yeah. 388 00:58:23.252 --> 00:58:27.185 Wanda M. Morris: But it is a book by 389 00:58:28.570 --> 00:58:41.886 Wanda M. Morris: Katie when and her lesson is spell NGUY EN kt, when and the book is call. You know what you did. And it is a really really good book. 390 00:58:42.740 --> 00:58:56.390 Wanda M. Morris: about Vietnamese immigrants in this country, and one of them suffers from a psychological disorder, and so throw in a couple of dead bodies in that. And, man, it's it's a really good read. But yeah. 391 00:58:56.390 --> 00:59:12.799 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Sounds it great, thank you. Well, thank you, Wanda, so much as everyone's been saying in the chat, this has just been so encouraging and supportive. And there's been so much great advice, so thank you so much for coming and being so generous with your expertise. I'm putting the links in the chat. So 392 00:59:12.890 --> 00:59:37.028 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: the 1st link is for Wanda's website. The second is for what you leave behind, which is one day old. So very exciting. So please please order that and then I think somebody had also mentioned they were in Georgia. So if you're in Georgia or in Atlanta, or want to make the trip. That final link is to check Wanda out in person at an upcoming author event. And so, yeah, thank you. It looks like. We've also got some fans. Vicky says she loves your books. 393 00:59:38.010 --> 00:59:39.900 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: you again. Thank you again. Wanda, yeah. 394 00:59:39.900 --> 00:59:45.950 Wanda M. Morris: Thank you all so much, and know that I am rooting for you. I've been where you are. You can do this. 395 00:59:45.970 --> 00:59:47.340 Wanda M. Morris: Thank you so much for having. 396 00:59:47.340 --> 00:59:49.629 Hayley @ ProWritingAid: Thank you. Have a great rest of your day. Bye.