WEBVTT

1
00:00:08.370 --> 00:00:20.239
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Hello, everyone! Welcome back to crime writers. Week with pro writing aid. If you can see and hear me, please drop your location in the chat, so we can see where you are joining us from.

2
00:00:21.040 --> 00:00:24.859
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and I will drop some special links for you.

3
00:00:27.080 --> 00:00:31.910
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Hello, St. Louis, Ontario, Pittsburgh.

4
00:00:32.470 --> 00:00:35.720
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Alaska, North Carolina.

5
00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:41.460
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Virginia, British Columbia, Chicago, Georgia, Maryland, Wales.

6
00:00:41.560 --> 00:00:43.539
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: It's moving quickly now.

7
00:00:44.400 --> 00:00:48.809
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: It looks like you can see and hear me just fine. So I'm going to

8
00:00:48.970 --> 00:01:12.439
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: start with just a few housekeeping notes, and I'm going to drop some links in the chat here for you now, and I will do that intermittently throughout the session today, as you can see, the chat moves quickly, but we are so happy to have you back for session. 2 of day, one of crime writers week. So the replays we will have replays for you of all of our sessions. You will want to check the hub page, which is included in the links here

9
00:01:12.440 --> 00:01:30.429
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: that pub page will have everything you need for this week, including resources from our speakers. Audio transcripts offers from pro rating aid all of your replays. They will be posted as soon as zoom is done, processing them so just refresh throughout the day, and you'll see new resources added.

10
00:01:31.175 --> 00:01:56.870
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: The time can vary a little bit. But don't worry. We will get everything up there as soon as we are able to, and these replays will also be posted on our community for all of our community members. Next week. So by next Friday, the 28, you will have access to all of the replays there as well, and they will just live there indefinitely. And we have writers, weeks replays from previous writers weeks there that you can go and check out in our video library.

11
00:01:57.370 --> 00:02:17.860
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Premium day is this Friday, that is, for premium and premium pro users of pro writing aid. So Monday, through Thursday are free for everyone to attend, but Friday is specifically for our premium and premium pro users. Free users can upgrade their account by Friday morning. If you would like to receive, live access to these sessions and workshops.

12
00:02:18.160 --> 00:02:38.910
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Premium and premium pro users will receive email instructions on Friday morning to let you know where you can access this information. As well as the replays and any of the Speaker resources. So please check your email Friday morning for that. If you have any questions about your account, feel free to email us at Hello, at prorating Aidcom, and we'll be happy to help you out

13
00:02:39.820 --> 00:03:05.769
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: your offer this week for attending crime writers week with us is 15% off your 1st year of a yearly premium or premium pro subscription that offer ends on July 6, th and you can access the offer on our Hub page. You will need to enter a special code on our pricing page, which is Cw. 2024, and that will let you have your 15% off discount. I'm gonna drop those links in the chat for you again. Here.

14
00:03:05.770 --> 00:03:32.049
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: More information about that discount is found on our hub page. If you would like to keep talking crime writing with us, we do have our community. As I mentioned previously, you can join for free. You simply enter your prorating aid account login and it will let you right into the community. With this link we have a live event chat happening with lots of fun discussion questions and folks syncing up promoting their work that they're doing. It's a great space to be in, and we hope to have you there

15
00:03:32.890 --> 00:04:01.950
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: reminders for our session today. If you have a question for Sue Campbell, please put it in the QA. Box, as you can see, things can get easily lost in the chat. As there is a lot of conversation happening, we welcome the conversation, please. Whenever you are chatting. Make sure that you hit everyone in the dropdown menu beside 2 that way. Everybody can see your messages, otherwise by default they just come to the host and panelists. So we wanna make sure if you want to chat with fellow attendees, they're actually seeing your messages. So please do that

16
00:04:02.510 --> 00:04:30.599
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and thank you for joining us today. I'm so excited to introduce Sue Campbell. Sue has helped hundreds of writers from Newbies to bestsellers, transform their inhibitive mindset around marketing and realize their full potential as authors. Her clients have exponentially increased their email lists and book sales, leaned articles and prestigious publications, such as the New York times done, guest spots on popular podcasts and more welcome back, Sue. We're so happy to have you back with us for another event.

17
00:04:32.180 --> 00:04:49.550
Sue Campbell: Thank you so much. It's lovely to be here. Good morning, everyone from all around. I am sure we're in. Good afternoon and good evening and some parts for everyone as well. I'm gonna go ahead and share my screen because I have a presentation for you today. So bear with me for one moment

18
00:04:50.570 --> 00:04:51.850
Sue Campbell: and

19
00:04:52.090 --> 00:04:57.829
Sue Campbell: tell me in the chat while you're waiting for me to pull this up, what kind of crime you write? What's your

20
00:04:58.410 --> 00:05:00.000
Sue Campbell: subgenre?

21
00:05:01.230 --> 00:05:06.360
Sue Campbell: It's like I've never shared my screen before. I swear I don't. I do this all the time? Okay, here we go

22
00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:24.450
Sue Campbell: alright. So we're gonna talk about marketing your crime novel. I'm gonna give you a 4 part framework that you can use to grow your audience. This is a foundational strategy, and we're gonna talk about. Why, that's important. In a moment

23
00:05:25.464 --> 00:05:47.970
Sue Campbell: Michelle was kind enough to introduce me. So I'm gonna skip this one. I do recommend that you grab a pen and a notebook. You do get the slides, but you know our brains really love analog. So I want you to make a few notes about what is most important for you at the stage that you're at right now, and take a few notes if you feel like doing that. Tommy in the chat also. What is your biggest

24
00:05:48.100 --> 00:05:50.070
Sue Campbell: marketing challenge

25
00:05:50.350 --> 00:05:51.840
Sue Campbell: right now.

26
00:05:52.280 --> 00:05:54.150
Sue Campbell: when I love seeing all of the

27
00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:55.760
Sue Campbell: subgenres

28
00:05:57.310 --> 00:06:00.639
Sue Campbell: and says getting started.

29
00:06:01.923 --> 00:06:27.720
Sue Campbell: Maria! Says social media, oh, I have good news for you. Maria Attrina says, reviews. Olivia says, she's writing romantic suspic suspense. Mark says, writing from the beginning, building an email list. Yes, starting from the beginning, building an email list being consistent on Instagram, finding readers, engagement building, a newsletter, subscriber list, scheduling and consistency Newsletter subscribers, gaining reviews, reaching my audience.

30
00:06:28.539 --> 00:06:30.639
Sue Campbell: Marketing challenges time.

31
00:06:31.263 --> 00:06:35.069
Sue Campbell: marketing my writing process before I publish

32
00:06:35.529 --> 00:06:56.490
Sue Campbell: reaching the target. Audience. Okay, overwhelm very common one, creating the email list writing in 2 languages. Yes, so potentially 2 different marketing platforms going on there, too. Shy worrying about pleasing an agent building email list. Okay, this is very helpful because it's gonna help me kind of hit some certain points harder than others, knowing what challenges you're facing in the audience today. So thank you for sharing

33
00:06:56.790 --> 00:07:05.910
Sue Campbell: the themes that I see repeated again and again, are that people would rather write. They don't want it market like we had a time thing in there like I want time for my writing, not my marketing.

34
00:07:06.140 --> 00:07:31.089
Sue Campbell: You don't know where to start. Marketing is confusing. It's overwhelming. We get sidetracked with tactics like we think it's, oh, it's all about Instagram, for instance, was something we saw in the chat, right? So we need to get some clarity around. What's actually gonna give you the best results for your efforts. And I can do that from a foundational strategy. So you understand big picture where you need to be

35
00:07:31.090 --> 00:07:36.329
Sue Campbell: heading and what you need to do to get there. And then, as individuals, you're all going to have

36
00:07:36.330 --> 00:07:44.789
Sue Campbell: different audiences, different approaches, different things that you're bringing to the mix. So there's not a magic wand that I can wave to give you all the power to perfectly market your book.

37
00:07:44.810 --> 00:07:52.579
Sue Campbell: But you bring the magic. I bring the strategy and we put them together. And it's a beautiful thing. Okay, so here's what we're gonna learn today.

38
00:07:53.970 --> 00:08:21.549
Sue Campbell: 1st of all, why, it's very dangerous to go on the Internet and start Googling and just use a slap dash of playbook tactics. There are lots of lots of good stuff on the Internet about bookmarking. I'm not saying there isn't. But you have to have this underlying strategy to PIN it on, or you for sure will get distracted with things that may not even be relevant or helpful for your particular writing career. We're also gonna talk about a better definition of marketing because a lot of us like

39
00:08:21.550 --> 00:08:29.139
Sue Campbell: we don't like thinking about marketing. Marketing is yaki. We don't want to do it, and we're going to talk about your number one book marketing goal.

40
00:08:29.250 --> 00:08:37.500
Sue Campbell: And we're gonna spend most of the time talking about the 4 part book marketing strategy that's actually gonna help you grow your audience.

41
00:08:37.880 --> 00:08:39.470
Sue Campbell: So let's dive in.

42
00:08:40.559 --> 00:09:03.660
Sue Campbell: So 1st up, this is again, like, let's get focused on what's important. When we look at most online advice, there are a couple of problems with it. 1st of all, if you Google like book marketing, you're gonna get things like, you have to write a great book, right? The 1st search results that Google spits out is you have to write a great book.

43
00:09:03.820 --> 00:09:09.969
Sue Campbell: You have to have a great book cover and a great book description. You have to present yourself professionally.

44
00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:20.090
Sue Campbell: notice that none of these things actually bring people to your book. This is actually information on how to create a marketable product.

45
00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:34.339
Sue Campbell: It doesn't tell you how to bring people to your book or get your book out in front of people who don't know about it. That's the goal of marketing in my mind is like, Yes, of course, we're going to create a great product. You guys already know that

46
00:09:34.700 --> 00:09:45.830
Sue Campbell: there's no one here who's under any illusions about these 1st 3 bullet points. But we need to actually concentrate on, how am I going to get this book out there in front of the right audience.

47
00:09:46.130 --> 00:09:47.020
Sue Campbell: Right?

48
00:09:47.300 --> 00:09:56.080
Sue Campbell: So other problems when we start Googling is that we see a lot of tactics, we don't see a lot of fundamental underlying strategy. We see a lot of tactics.

49
00:09:56.110 --> 00:10:06.900
Sue Campbell: We see a lot of bite sized, really, clickbait articles which that's just the nature of the Internet. I get it. But you'll get things like a hundred things you can do to market your book in under 10 min.

50
00:10:07.010 --> 00:10:15.859
Sue Campbell: right? But it doesn't tell you how it fits into an underlying strategy. And how many of those are actually even worth doing at all. And it gives you the sense that you're doing something.

51
00:10:15.880 --> 00:10:24.150
Sue Campbell: even though the thing that you're doing may not be moving the needle in an important way. So we get the, you know, like what James clear and atomic habits called motion versus

52
00:10:24.170 --> 00:10:53.663
Sue Campbell: action. Right? We're moving. But we're like running in place, cause we're not doing things that are actually going to make a difference. A lot of them don't really focus on the return on your investment of your time and energy. It's not very evidence based or data backed. And often it's a 1 size fits all mentality. So I'm the underlying strategy I'm gonna give you is actually one size fits all. But it's how you customize the pieces and how you individually fill those out where you don't want it to be. One. Size fits all what works for, you know.

53
00:10:54.478 --> 00:11:11.159
Sue Campbell: I'm totally blanking for any good example. But what works for one cozy mystery writer may not work at all for a thriller suspense writer. Right? We've gotta really take a look at making it about your ideal reader, and at the end I'll talk to you a little bit about ideal reader, and how you can get more information.

54
00:11:11.260 --> 00:11:24.016
Sue Campbell: So that's why we want underlying strategy so that we can filter all the tactics that we find on the Internet. The second piece that I want to talk about is a better definition of marketing. So tell me, in the chat

55
00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:27.009
Sue Campbell: on a scale of one to 10,

56
00:11:27.040 --> 00:11:33.269
Sue Campbell: one being you loathe marketing and 10 being. You love marketing. Where are you? On a scale of one to 10?

57
00:11:34.988 --> 00:11:36.680
Sue Campbell: Somebody's a 10. Okay, great

58
00:11:36.870 --> 00:11:46.660
Sue Campbell: yay, I'm seeing some middle numbers, some low numbers some high numbers. Just the word loath. I love it. 1010, great.

59
00:11:46.800 --> 00:12:05.919
Sue Campbell: 3, 6, 1, 1, 5. Okay, this is a nice mix. This is a nice mix. And if you're showing up at a marketing session, I think we already have a biased audience. There are a lot of people who hate marketing that aren't even gonna show up show up to hear me. But I do think it's advantageous to think of it in a different way, because a lot of us do bring our own baggage

60
00:12:06.070 --> 00:12:28.310
Sue Campbell: to the word marketing. We bring our own worst marketing experiences that we have had as consumers and people living in the world to the word marketing, and therefore we don't want to be that person. We don't want to do that to other people. So what I like to think of for authors is really what we're doing is we are building long, lasting connections with readers.

61
00:12:28.990 --> 00:12:34.600
Sue Campbell: Readers are some of the coolest people ever right readers and writers are my favorite groups of people.

62
00:12:34.770 --> 00:12:45.530
Sue Campbell: If we think of ourselves as building long, lasting connections with them on our terms on terms, we're comfortable with and on terms they are comfortable with. That feels a lot better to me

63
00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:49.150
Sue Campbell: than going out and saying, I'm going to try to sell something today.

64
00:12:49.370 --> 00:12:56.279
Sue Campbell: Right. No, I want to go and build connections with a bunch of cool people and see where our interests overlap and see if my book is a good fit for that.

65
00:12:57.511 --> 00:13:04.560
Sue Campbell: Tell me in the chat, if that feels better, that definition of marketing helped some of you who had some of those low scores of loathing.

66
00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:10.069
Sue Campbell: Lynn says, yes, okay, much better. Yes, yes.

67
00:13:10.290 --> 00:13:28.750
Sue Campbell: okay, fantastic. So please use that. And like, there are some of you who are introverts like, I'm not a people person. Okay. But that's the joy of having the Internet. And technology is like, you can have a connection and develop an audience and a platform without having to go knee deep at a cocktail party

68
00:13:28.750 --> 00:13:44.690
Sue Campbell: right like you can still build it on your terms. But it's not gonna help you at all, if you're like, I'm not people person. And I hate marketing. Okay? Then you can. We can all just write books for our own pleasure, too. That's always an option. And it's perfectly respectable. If we wanna build an audience and we wanna have that impact

69
00:13:44.690 --> 00:13:49.190
Sue Campbell: reframe this in a way until it clicks until it makes you want to take action.

70
00:13:49.510 --> 00:14:01.290
Sue Campbell: I'm huge, huge, huge on mindset. So much of what gets in our way on marketing is the way that we are thinking about it, which is why I want to give you that different definition that can help you move past the feelings of yuck that are associated.

71
00:14:01.330 --> 00:14:03.509
Sue Campbell: and also the strategy

72
00:14:03.870 --> 00:14:08.589
Sue Campbell: that I'm going to give you is inherently UN yucky. And I'll point that out as we go along.

73
00:14:08.950 --> 00:14:21.750
Sue Campbell: Okay, so number 3, your number one book of marketing goal. I'm actually gonna deliver this one in the context of the book marketing strategy. But I wanna extra underline it. So I'm gonna give you a little quiz at the end.

74
00:14:21.870 --> 00:14:28.750
Sue Campbell: So now we're going to shift to the foundational 4 part book Mac marketing strategy that I talked about.

75
00:14:29.190 --> 00:14:52.920
Sue Campbell: It's called the Connection System. It was developed by a guy named Tim Grol who trained me on it. It's a brilliant system. I've developed my own framework, too. And I keep coming back to this one. It's basically a content marketing model. If you're familiar in, you know, a different part of your life with the term content, marketing and permission based marketing. It's this, but it's for authors, right? So it's it's structured specifically for authors.

76
00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:57.789
Sue Campbell: So I'm going to walk you through all 4 of these parts. Don't feel like you have to know what they are, yet. Permission.

77
00:14:58.010 --> 00:14:59.250
Sue Campbell: content.

78
00:14:59.260 --> 00:15:03.660
Sue Campbell: outreach, and selling 4 parts of the connection system.

79
00:15:04.490 --> 00:15:19.170
Sue Campbell: So permission marketing is foundational to having marketing. That is not icky and that we can feel good about right? It allows you're you're asking permission. Right. People are granting permission

80
00:15:19.170 --> 00:15:35.979
Sue Campbell: to allow you into their digital space or even their physical space. And it lets you get people's attention in a way that you can drive action and build that relationship over time by providing something that's valuable and entertaining to the person who you're trying to reach.

81
00:15:36.120 --> 00:15:44.509
Sue Campbell: So permission, social media is a form of permission. So if I follow you on Instagram, I'm giving your stuff permission to show up in my feed.

82
00:15:44.630 --> 00:15:53.370
Sue Campbell: However, data shows, with the current exception of Tiktok. Right now, social media does not sell books very well at

83
00:15:53.570 --> 00:15:57.249
Sue Campbell: all compared to the other method that I'm going to give you.

84
00:15:58.353 --> 00:16:17.470
Sue Campbell: It really doesn't. If you look at the data of engagement rates click through rates, be like people actually getting all the way through to a purchase. Social media does not sell books very well. Of course there are always exceptions. We can all point to the elephants in the room who are doing very well, selling on social.

85
00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:35.139
Sue Campbell: The data by and large, does not prove that that is a a really worthy activity for most of us to be concentrating on in comparison to other things we could be doing again. The current exception is tick, tock, tick, tock, and move some books. But you gotta make sure your ideal reader is on Tiktok. It may or may not be right for you.

86
00:16:35.140 --> 00:16:51.420
Sue Campbell: as a person who wants to be on a certain platform and doing certain things and making certain types of content, and it may not be a fit for your ideal reader, and I don't expect that to last. In fact, I just talked to an author who's super successful on Tiktok. I was appearing on her, podcast her name is Sasha black.

87
00:16:51.420 --> 00:17:07.430
Sue Campbell: And she's like we're basically at the end of the organic reach of Tiktok. Right like we're that. She's very much expects that to be ending very soon, and then that for that sort of visibility to be sold just like what happened on Facebook a number of years ago. So here are the problems

88
00:17:08.180 --> 00:17:32.870
Sue Campbell: with focusing on social. It's really hard to get readers to take buying actions. We're just in scroll mode, right? We're in consumer mode in terms of sort of scrolling. We're watching stuff where our attention is very easily taken away. You'll get a heart right. You'll get a like you'll get. Maybe a reshare comment would be amazing for someone to actually click through and buy is very, very rare.

89
00:17:33.650 --> 00:17:44.320
Sue Campbell: It's really easy to get buried in someone's feed. Or actually, I should update this bullet to never show up in anyone's feed at all, even though they said they want to hear from you.

90
00:17:44.350 --> 00:18:02.289
Sue Campbell: Right? The algorithm will really limit and throttle back. Who's seeing your content, even if you have so many followers. If you want proof of this, just go look on Twitter like at Stephen King's profile. He's got like 7 million followers, and then go look at the views of one of his tweets. Right? It's

91
00:18:02.670 --> 00:18:10.569
Sue Campbell: very small percentage of your total followers are going to see anything, and he's got some algorithmic juice. So he's still doing better than the rest of us. Of course.

92
00:18:11.110 --> 00:18:17.400
Sue Campbell: also, we are at the mercy of these platforms when we stake everything on social media.

93
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:33.140
Sue Campbell: They can change the rules. They can change the algorithm. They can actually crash without warning, which happened a couple of years ago. Remember, Facebook and Instagram were down, for, like almost a whole day I kept thinking, Oh, my God, what if someone's book lunches today? And they were like putting all of their eggs in that basket.

94
00:18:34.040 --> 00:18:47.560
Sue Campbell: So problems. This is probably a relief for some of you tell me in the chat, if you're relieved like, oh, I don't need to focus on social right. I don't need to focus on social in terms of wanting to sell books. That's not where I should be building my platform.

95
00:18:47.590 --> 00:18:52.320
Sue Campbell: Okay, yay, you're welcome totally worth coming to this webinar, just for that.

96
00:18:52.360 --> 00:19:02.150
Sue Campbell: But what do we need to do instead? So here's the number one book marketing goal that I want to give you today for those of you who know you're gonna write one more than one book.

97
00:19:02.630 --> 00:19:05.699
Sue Campbell: and that is to build an email list.

98
00:19:05.870 --> 00:19:16.940
Sue Campbell: So you need an email service provider to do this, I'll kind of walk you through and really high level steps. What that means. But you've got to build an email list because you have so much more control over an email list.

99
00:19:16.940 --> 00:19:36.639
Sue Campbell: It's very easy if you're developing an email list of followers to reach people who loved your 1st book. And now you can tell them your next book is coming out and you can sell your backlist right? You don't have to keep hustling for brand new readers each and every time you release a book you don't have to scare up an audience because you've maintained your audience

100
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:38.279
Sue Campbell: from your email list.

101
00:19:39.043 --> 00:20:05.100
Sue Campbell: You own the list. If you're following the laws, it can't be just taken from you by an algorithm change. Again, there are some laws that govern email marketing, but they're real easy to follow. It's not a big deal at all. And of course, other people can unsubscribe, and we want that for them. We want them to be able to control their own data and unsubscribe if it's not a fit for them anymore. And obviously, if they want to unsubscribe and we make it hard for them. They're not going to buy our books, anyway.

102
00:20:05.700 --> 00:20:17.699
Sue Campbell: You can control the message. So you don't have to like, think in terms of how am I going to package this? So the algorithm will show it or so that I'm not violating community guidelines, etc. You control the message.

103
00:20:17.700 --> 00:20:37.130
Sue Campbell: It's also a far quieter for most of us. Our inbox is a far quieter and more intimate space where we can ask someone to go click on something and buy something, ask someone to go click and leave a review, provided we've built that relationship. And we're reciprocating that right, we want to be providing value to the people who are on our email list.

104
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:44.309
Sue Campbell: So in order to have an email list just at a high level. You need to have a website, or, at the very least, a landing page

105
00:20:44.320 --> 00:20:50.270
Sue Campbell: where people can go and you can send them when you want them to sign up for your email list. You need to send them somewhere so they can do that.

106
00:20:50.320 --> 00:21:10.780
Sue Campbell: You need to have an email service provider that's specially for creating an email list of this kind. So you're not doing this in your Gmail account or your Yahoo account, or whatever it is that you use. Your email service provider will help you generate, sign up forms, make it very easy to generate a sign up form and be able to embed it on your website or a landing page.

107
00:21:11.170 --> 00:21:31.849
Sue Campbell: I highly recommend that you are giving the. You know, the people who are visiting your website. You're giving them a sign up incentive. It's also called a reader magnet. There are lots of names for it, but you're giving them something in exchange for their email list. They're giving you something very valuable. I want you to give them something valuable in return.

108
00:21:31.850 --> 00:21:49.240
Sue Campbell: And then you need to have an email welcome sequence. Even if it's just one email that's automatically gonna pop back to them. They sign up. They get an email back that delivers the thing that you promised. And then if you wanna throw a couple more emails on there to develop that know like and trust factor, so much the better.

109
00:21:50.340 --> 00:22:05.239
Sue Campbell: Okay. So Teresa says, Oh, Teresa, we're gonna get to this. This is so perfect. Thank you. I have all this also. Did a reader magnet and give away few sign ups. I will tell you what we're missing. It's the 3rd piece of the the 3 part system. Oh, that is what you are missing.

110
00:22:05.270 --> 00:22:17.309
Sue Campbell: Okay? So second piece of the system, 1st part was permission. So that's building the email list. The second piece is content. So content is the part where writers I usually don't get any pushback right? It's like, yay, I can write stuff

111
00:22:17.410 --> 00:22:40.899
Sue Campbell: content is anything that you're putting out in the world that will help a reader decide if you're a good fit, and if they want to keep building that relationship with you, so you need to put step out into the world for other people to absorb. So that could be blog posts, newsletters, social media posts, our content. I'm not saying you shouldn't be on social media at all. I just don't want you to spend all your energy on building your social following as opposed to your email list.

112
00:22:41.330 --> 00:22:46.539
Sue Campbell: podcasts, the words that are coming out of your mouth when you're talking to someone on a podcast is content.

113
00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:54.780
Sue Campbell: You could write blogs for other people. You can go in person and give speeches and readings. You can write posts on some other platform like medium.

114
00:22:55.876 --> 00:23:07.989
Sue Campbell: These others are a little more lean towards nonfiction. But you could do workbooks, videos, Q&A's, you know. Crime has all kinds of cool content opportunities. Right? You can do maps.

115
00:23:08.010 --> 00:23:13.980
Sue Campbell: You can do clue files. You can do all kinds of crazy, cool, content stuff for crime writing.

116
00:23:14.250 --> 00:23:40.090
Sue Campbell: So content must haves for this piece. And you definitely want that welcome email. Hopefully, a series of 3 emails ideally, you definitely want to have a regular newsletter for subscribers. We're not just building the list and then never sending them anything that's like, you know, when we have that friend who only calls us when they need to borrow our truck when it's time to move, or they want help moving

117
00:23:40.100 --> 00:23:50.230
Sue Campbell: right when you are only sending out an email. You have good intentions. You're like, I don't want to spam people. I don't want to annoy them. I'm only going to email people when I have a new book coming out.

118
00:23:50.510 --> 00:24:01.319
Sue Campbell: The message that it can be received on the other side of that is, oh, this person only emails me when it's time for me to buy their book. That's 1 sided right?

119
00:24:02.100 --> 00:24:18.909
Sue Campbell: So you want to be regularly providing value for your subscribers, and then you want content that you can use with influencers. And when your audience is small, this is where I want you to spend most of your energy is developing content. You can use for other people who already have a big audience.

120
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:32.309
Sue Campbell: Right? Cause you're gonna make content. And you wanna get as many eyeballs on that content as you possibly can while you're starting small. Otherwise you're gonna burn out on content creation and be like, I have all this, I'm making content. I'm writing newsletters, and nothing's happening

121
00:24:32.450 --> 00:24:38.140
Sue Campbell: right? I'm not building my list isn't growing, even though I did the website. And I have the email list.

122
00:24:38.600 --> 00:24:42.689
Sue Campbell: So that brings us to the 3rd piece, which I think it was Teresa

123
00:24:42.960 --> 00:25:09.459
Sue Campbell: who said, I've got a website. I've got an email list. I've got a reader, Magnet. I'm getting very few sign ups, so whenever I hear that I know that outreach is either what is missing or what we don't have enough of so outreach is us getting out there, finding the audiences that have already been built of people who would love our book, and then we show them, hey, we exist. And I've got this book that's probably you're gonna love.

124
00:25:09.480 --> 00:25:14.189
Sue Campbell: So you're moving people from not knowing you exist at all to knowing that you exist

125
00:25:14.390 --> 00:25:23.089
Sue Campbell: right? And it's we're not setting up. I call it your digital spider web, right when you just only set up a website. And you only have a reader magnet.

126
00:25:24.207 --> 00:25:32.820
Sue Campbell: It's like you're waiting for people to stumble into your digital spider web. Right? Remember, Magnet, in order to pull anything in needs to be in close enough proximity

127
00:25:32.910 --> 00:25:50.180
Sue Campbell: to the thing. It's magnetized right to the piece of metal you have to get in front of people and have your magnet with you to in order to pull them back over to your audience. So outreach is the magic ingredient. If you know you're only ever gonna write one book which I suspect is

128
00:25:50.180 --> 00:26:06.159
Sue Campbell: probably not most of you. Most of you are. Gonna write more than one book because you're gonna get through one, even if you're telling in that self now, you're gonna get an itch later on. But if you only did have one book, I could say you could skip the email list because you don't need to reach people for book after book and just do outreach

129
00:26:06.580 --> 00:26:15.959
Sue Campbell: right? Just do the outreach in that case and focus on that. Regardless, we want to do so much outreach as much as we can for the time and resources that we have

130
00:26:16.110 --> 00:26:25.889
Sue Campbell: so that we can get in front of people, show them what we have to offer, offer them that content and then invite them back to our email list. And I'll talk about

131
00:26:25.970 --> 00:26:27.859
Sue Campbell: ways that this cycle works.

132
00:26:28.220 --> 00:26:29.870
Sue Campbell: But for outreach.

133
00:26:29.890 --> 00:26:40.459
Sue Campbell: it's basically revolves around influencers. So you may have an idea of an influencer as someone like this young woman on the screen who's doing? Maybe makeup tutorials on Instagram.

134
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:44.179
Sue Campbell: Right? Everybody has their own idea of what an influencer is.

135
00:26:44.743 --> 00:26:52.879
Sue Campbell: An influencer is simply someone who has built an audience or who controls an audience. Maybe they're the gatekeeper for an audience.

136
00:26:52.930 --> 00:26:58.130
Sue Campbell: and they can get other people to learn about you by your book become your fan.

137
00:26:58.550 --> 00:27:14.940
Sue Campbell: So influencers can be other authors in your genre. Other bloggers, book reviewers, Podcasters, people who book events at conferences. So they're not the, you know, figurehead for that audience. But they're the person behind the scenes who's doing the event. Booking

138
00:27:14.980 --> 00:27:42.440
Sue Campbell: journalists, librarians, people with large social media followings like, there's no reason you can't use somebody else's huge social media following. I just don't want you spending time trying to build that for yourself or people with really large email lists. And this is not exhaustive right? You may have other people who you can think of who would be an influencer in your particular case. But this just gives you some ideas, because I find often people get too fixated on one type of influencer.

139
00:27:43.780 --> 00:27:56.199
Sue Campbell: Outreach is actually a 7 step process, we can unpack, outreach a little more. So this is the way that I unpack it. Number one in order to do outreach. It's gonna be scary.

140
00:27:56.210 --> 00:28:00.809
Sue Campbell: We're for sure going to get rejected, and we're for sure going to get ignored.

141
00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:02.530
Sue Campbell: That's just

142
00:28:02.600 --> 00:28:06.180
Sue Campbell: the way it is. We don't need to make it mean anything

143
00:28:06.260 --> 00:28:12.279
Sue Campbell: about the quality of our book. The quality and value of us as a person.

144
00:28:12.290 --> 00:28:19.549
Sue Campbell: Influencers have a ton of reasons, and we just give them the benefit of the doubt. If they pass or they ignore us. We just like

145
00:28:19.630 --> 00:28:32.260
Sue Campbell: bless and move on right. There's nothing wrong with their decision, and we're just going to keep going. It's like when you're planting a garden. You're going to plant more seeds, because, you know, not all of the seeds are going to germinate.

146
00:28:32.530 --> 00:28:50.330
Sue Campbell: So the 1st step is really getting a handle on your own mind, and being willing to be uncomfortable and being willing to put yourself out there in the way to do to do this outreach and do this work and know that. Yeah, you're gonna get ignored and you're gonna get rejected. That's how you get yeses.

147
00:28:50.360 --> 00:29:07.240
Sue Campbell: So I like for people to actually collect as many nose as possible. Right? Keep track of them. Shows you're in the game. It's like when people you know put up their rejection letters from agents and from publishers. Right? Same concept. We wanna stock pile as many of those rejections as possible.

148
00:29:07.750 --> 00:29:12.180
Sue Campbell: Number 2, I want you to set some goals for how much you're going to do.

149
00:29:12.370 --> 00:29:20.110
Sue Campbell: and it doesn't. I don't want you to think you have to have like 40 h of marketing in every week. Not at all. But I do want you to like.

150
00:29:20.300 --> 00:29:23.750
Sue Campbell: Set something for yourself, like I'm going to send 2 pitches a week.

151
00:29:23.910 --> 00:29:37.040
Sue Campbell: I'm gonna you know, pitch 2 influencers a week, one influencer a week, you know. However, many is right for the amount of time that you have. But often what happens is, people will send one podcast pitch, and then they'll be like, well, that didn't work

152
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:48.859
Sue Campbell: right. We've got to be willing to say I'm going to do this repeatedly, and learn as I go and refine my methodology as I go, so that I get more and more successful in my success, builds over time.

153
00:29:49.710 --> 00:30:02.000
Sue Campbell: Step 3, is really making sure. You know who your reader Persona is, who is your ideal reader, because that is going to help you make all of these decisions about who to target what to say, what to pitch.

154
00:30:02.070 --> 00:30:14.179
Sue Campbell: So I've got If you Michelle put in the link, for at the bottom one is for me, and I'm giving you another webinar where you can learn about how and why to create a reader persona, and I'll give you that at the end. As well.

155
00:30:14.260 --> 00:30:33.700
Sue Campbell: Step 4 is doing your research. Now that you know who you're looking for. You can go out and research who has built an audience that has these types of folks in it. Great. Let me pitch them. The research is really, really key, so that you can again put some strategy behind the outreach that you're doing and make sure you're actually reaching people who you need to be reaching

156
00:30:35.126 --> 00:30:56.360
Sue Campbell: oh, thank you. Michelle. Put the link in there again. Cultivating relationships. So this is actually an optional step, cause you can send cold pitches. We do it all the time, and it works. But it is even better when you're cultivating relationships with these influencers over time. So the 1st time they hear from you isn't when you're asking for something you wanted. And actually.

157
00:30:56.370 --> 00:31:06.680
Sue Campbell: social media is good for this right? We're going to use social media for something. It's great to actually cultivate relationships with people who we couldn't otherwise easily reach.

158
00:31:06.850 --> 00:31:15.830
Sue Campbell: So I like to use social media exactly for that, for developing one to one social media relationships with influencers who have these audiences.

159
00:31:16.486 --> 00:31:21.470
Sue Campbell: Number 6, you're going to actually make your ask. You're gonna write a pitch

160
00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:43.900
Sue Campbell: where you're proposing something that is a win win not, hey? Can I come on and talk about my cozy crime, or can I come on? Talk about my mystery. You want to say, hey, I know I know what you do. I know what your audience wants. I can help you meet it. Here's how blah blah blah, right? So you're looking for a pitch that is a win win

161
00:31:44.345 --> 00:31:49.669
Sue Campbell: and then finally, you wanna be able to deliver on what you promised. So when someone says Yes.

162
00:31:50.070 --> 00:32:00.580
Sue Campbell: and they will. If you keep pitching and keep refining, you will get yeses. You want to be a delight to work with and deliver professionally on that outreach. So that is how outreach unpacks

163
00:32:00.985 --> 00:32:12.810
Sue Campbell: and there I have a lot to say about this. There's a lot of how in here that again, you have to be willing to be uncomfortable to get to get all this rolling. So so far, we've got email list. That's permission.

164
00:32:13.070 --> 00:32:14.320
Sue Campbell: Content.

165
00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:20.819
Sue Campbell: outreach. We've got 3 pieces. This is the 4th piece of selling.

166
00:32:21.120 --> 00:32:29.260
Sue Campbell: and this is another word we don't like very much, but this just means that you're offering your book to the right people.

167
00:32:29.270 --> 00:32:37.490
Sue Campbell: And when we're really careful to offer a book to the right people, it does not feel nearly as icky. I call this clean selling.

168
00:32:38.140 --> 00:32:47.510
Sue Campbell: and I think there are components to doing this in a way that feels really good. Number one. Remember that virtuous actions have virtuous results. I straight up stole this from Buddhism

169
00:32:47.580 --> 00:33:02.679
Sue Campbell: right? When we act virtuously in the world, we get virtuous results back. It doesn't necessarily mean we get the exact results that we want it to back. But good things happen when we do good things. Remember, please, that making art

170
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.890
Sue Campbell: in and of itself is a virtuous act.

171
00:33:07.320 --> 00:33:30.710
Sue Campbell: By writing these books you are adding value to the world. It may seem like, Oh, no, I'm just writing these fluffy little cozies. You're giving someone some moment of joy, a moment of escape, you know a moment of fantasy, whatever it is that the emotional state you're creating with your books is valuable for that person, or they wouldn't spend the time doing it.

172
00:33:30.770 --> 00:33:38.020
Sue Campbell: So you are sharing your gifts, and when you think about selling, I want you to think that you're just sharing your gifts with the people who are willing to accept them.

173
00:33:38.630 --> 00:33:39.430
Sue Campbell: Right?

174
00:33:40.129 --> 00:33:43.899
Sue Campbell: My favorite story. We're doing good on time. So I'm going to tell you a really quick story.

175
00:33:44.320 --> 00:33:57.559
Sue Campbell: I used to do like one to one consult call. So if someone was thinking of working with me, I'd get on the phone with them for a half hour. So I was talking to this woman, and we both happen to live in Portland we actually met at a physical conference, and then we had a follow up call.

176
00:33:57.610 --> 00:34:01.519
Sue Campbell: and she was traditionally published author.

177
00:34:01.840 --> 00:34:05.819
Sue Campbell: and she had, I don't know, like 1011 books published.

178
00:34:05.910 --> 00:34:14.570
Sue Campbell: and she said, But I've always just been a really, you know, Mid List author, because I hate selling. I hate it so so much. And I was like, Okay, I get it.

179
00:34:14.750 --> 00:34:24.650
Sue Campbell: And then we got down a little conversational rabbit hole. I do not remember how we got there, but I started complaining that I couldn't get any of my Portland friends to go to Karaoke with me.

180
00:34:25.699 --> 00:34:27.159
Sue Campbell: and she was like, Oh.

181
00:34:27.790 --> 00:34:44.030
Sue Campbell: you have to try low bar chorale, and I was like, what is Low Bar chorale, and she's like, Oh, my God! You have to try it! You have to try it. I'm like, what? What is it she's like? It is. There's a live band, and there's a bar in Revolution Hall, and you they pick 2, 80 s hits

182
00:34:44.090 --> 00:34:57.030
Sue Campbell: and everybody in the whole bar. It's like this big course, and you all sing together at the same time, and it is the most fun ever you have to try it. She just flipped out on me like bossing me around. You have to try it. I was like Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!

183
00:34:57.180 --> 00:35:02.879
Sue Campbell: Melissa, do you know what you're doing to me right now? And she's like what I said. You're selling me

184
00:35:03.040 --> 00:35:21.420
Sue Campbell: right. You're selling me on Low Bar Chorale, and the reason you are perfectly comfortable. Selling me on low barrel is because you learned something about me that you know it would improve my life. You know I would enjoy it, you know it would make, you know, give me this moment of joy, and that I would totally love it

185
00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:28.180
Sue Campbell: so. She had no qualms about selling, because she knew that was such a good and magical fit.

186
00:35:28.660 --> 00:35:43.380
Sue Campbell: So I want you to look for that fit if we're trying to cram our book down everybody's throats, you know whether they have ever read a crime novel in their life or not. That is not appropriate. That's when selling feels yucky when we're pushing something on someone who doesn't want it.

187
00:35:43.620 --> 00:35:50.540
Sue Campbell: So you need to know who your ideal reader is, so you can go out into the world and make these selling offers appropriately.

188
00:35:51.310 --> 00:35:58.089
Sue Campbell: All right. So let's put it all together. How does this system, this foundational strategy work in practice.

189
00:35:58.150 --> 00:36:21.110
Sue Campbell: So we've got the email list. We've got content. We've got outreach, and we've got selling. So I'm going to give you a couple of examples. This is not exhaustive. There are so many ways to spin this out. So I want you to really get your brain solving for this like, okay, how could I apply this? So the 1st example would be, you befriend and influencer. Right? Someone who's got an audience who has a popular podcast

190
00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:24.810
Sue Campbell: so you can do that on social media. That's a great use of social media.

191
00:36:25.100 --> 00:36:31.240
Sue Campbell: Make friends. That is outreach, because now this influencer didn't know you exist. And now they know you exist.

192
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:58.030
Sue Campbell: Then you can pitch that influencer to be on their podcast again. You want to do it as a win win. Here's I know what your audience loves. I've listened to a bunch of episodes. Here's how I can help. Here's you know, why they would love it. So that is outreach. And it's content. So being on the podcast is outreach cause you're getting in front of this new audience, full of people who didn't know you before. And all of the things that you're talking about on the podcast are content

193
00:36:58.550 --> 00:37:15.529
Sue Campbell: at the end of the podcast or even sprinkled throughout. You can let them know where they can learn more about you. You can even have a special web page set up. You don't have to, but send them to a specific URL, where they can sign up for your newsletter, right?

194
00:37:15.530 --> 00:37:37.219
Sue Campbell: Or your email list. That's permission. Where that's our number one goal is to build that list. Once someone's on our list, we have lots of opportunities to sell them. The book don't feel like you have to sell the book on the podcast of course. You can say the name of the book, and you can go buy it wherever books are sold. But really we want to get them on that email list so that we've got them as a reader for a long time to come. Hopefully.

195
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:50.789
Sue Campbell: then, when that person signs up for your email list, they get that welcome email with the sign up bonus. And then you're going to continue to build that relationship by sending regular emails that's content.

196
00:37:50.840 --> 00:38:04.230
Sue Campbell: And every newsletter can have a blurb about your book and a link to buy it, and that is selling, because when you're on your list and they're staying there, we're pretty sure they're a good fit. You can feel free to sell them that book. So that's 1 example

197
00:38:05.270 --> 00:38:06.660
Sue Campbell: of

198
00:38:07.180 --> 00:38:09.250
Sue Campbell: the connection system in action.

199
00:38:09.540 --> 00:38:10.890
Sue Campbell: The second

200
00:38:10.940 --> 00:38:33.259
Sue Campbell: example is, you can review a book if you have either. It's I said podcast, here. But if just on your website, you could review a book from a well known author who's in your genre. You can then tag that author on social media when you promote the post again. I'm not telling you to go build a large social media audience. But there are ways that you can use it strategically

201
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:47.320
Sue Campbell: 9 times out of 10, if you're tagging that author, and it's a favorable review, you're they're going to share it with their audience. Right? It's very easy to just reshare a post. You see it all the time, so that becomes outreach.

202
00:38:47.330 --> 00:38:55.370
Sue Campbell: Now, everybody who is following that social media, or that author on social media who the algorithm will let them see the post

203
00:38:55.380 --> 00:39:16.729
Sue Campbell: that's outreach. They're seeing it. And then, when they listen to your podcast. They click through link. Listen to the podcast. To see the book review. They're gonna get a call to action to join your mailing list, and they're gonna get that sign up bonus again. That's call to action. Back to the newsletter, always, always. And then your newsletters will have a blurb about your book and links to buy.

204
00:39:17.780 --> 00:39:21.551
Sue Campbell: So lots of examples on this

205
00:39:22.310 --> 00:39:31.849
Sue Campbell: and becca you can check. Becca says a lot of authors have said on social media. They don't want to be tagged in reviews. So that's fine. You can always check on that person's profile, and if they say that, don't do it.

206
00:39:33.330 --> 00:39:35.269
Sue Campbell: So let's recap

207
00:39:36.930 --> 00:39:45.750
Sue Campbell: and look at what we learned. Number one. We want that underlying strategy before we go just trying a bunch of tactics. So we've given you to that

208
00:39:45.760 --> 00:39:51.190
Sue Campbell: strategy. Today. We talked about a better definition of bookmarking.

209
00:39:53.610 --> 00:40:00.309
Sue Campbell: that is building long, lasting connections with readers. We want to find our people.

210
00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:07.960
Sue Campbell: And then our number one book, marketing goal is what this is the quiz portion. What's your number? One bookmarking goal?

211
00:40:17.860 --> 00:40:20.140
Sue Campbell: Yes, build an email list.

212
00:40:20.520 --> 00:40:37.090
Sue Campbell: Hooray, hooray! We want to build that email list. Because building an email list is gonna put us in a better position to sell books. Not just this book, but our backlist and every book that we write into the future. It's much harder to sell books when we can't find the people who bought the last book

213
00:40:37.230 --> 00:40:37.990
Sue Campbell: pipe.

214
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:43.840
Sue Campbell: And then we talked about the 4 part foundational strategy. So that is permission

215
00:40:44.040 --> 00:40:45.320
Sue Campbell: content.

216
00:40:45.330 --> 00:40:46.570
Sue Campbell: outreach

217
00:40:46.590 --> 00:41:00.669
Sue Campbell: and selling. That's the 4 part system. Aha! Very funny, Scotty. Okay, so the next step for you, as you can probably tell from the presentation, is, we need to know who our ideal reader is.

218
00:41:00.670 --> 00:41:23.559
Sue Campbell: I want you to have such a concrete picture of that person like you're going to put them in a novel not some broad demographic of, you know any woman from 35 to 65 who's ever glanced at a cozy in a bookstore that's too broad. We want to use this profile of the person to do our research to figure out who are the influencers? What does this person care about?

219
00:41:23.560 --> 00:41:51.079
Sue Campbell: How can I talk to them in a way that's gonna get their attention. What do my book jacket copy need to read, like to attract this person? We really wanna be super super specific. So I wanna help you do that by giving you another webinar. It's about a half an hour long. It's pretty short. So if you go to pages and platforms.com forward slash pwa! You can sign up for my email list. See my call to action to come and join my newsletter that's full of value.

220
00:41:51.360 --> 00:42:00.299
Sue Campbell: You can join that, and you can get that free webinar on demand, and that you also get a template with it as well. So Michelle just dropped a link in the chat

221
00:42:01.020 --> 00:42:03.239
Sue Campbell: where you can go and see that

222
00:42:03.718 --> 00:42:11.749
Sue Campbell: and then we'll jump over to QA. So if you put something in the chat. That is actually a question you want me to answer.

223
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:15.259
Sue Campbell: Flip it over to the Q. And A. Box, and I will

224
00:42:15.741 --> 00:42:19.599
Sue Campbell: lump as I'll get through as many questions as we possibly can.

225
00:42:20.600 --> 00:42:47.170
Sue Campbell: Okay, Nancy says, do you lump Instagram into social media like Facebook? As for being ineffective? Yes, Nancy. The only exception right now is tick, Tock. And again, that's just for certain. Authors. Make sure that if you do want to get on Tiktok, make sure your ideal reader is there, so do the ideal reader work first.st Again, there are always exceptions. There's a great author named Abby Jimenez. Who writes

226
00:42:47.620 --> 00:42:51.500
Sue Campbell: ROM comes. But she's doing great on Instagram

227
00:42:51.630 --> 00:43:19.809
Sue Campbell: right? There's always an exception, but it is so much harder to build a social media following because of the restrictions that the algorithm and that platform puts on you and how they throttle back. So your followers can't see that just aren't there with an email list. It's so much more effective to do an email list. And your engagement rates are so much higher. So, for example, social media, if you get a 1 or 2% engagement rate. That's like pretty good.

228
00:43:19.910 --> 00:43:24.529
Sue Campbell: right for any post that you put up on email.

229
00:43:24.630 --> 00:43:33.680
Sue Campbell: you can get a 30% open rate and a click-through rate that is many times higher. Right? Like 8, 9, 10% click-through rate

230
00:43:33.800 --> 00:43:38.690
Sue Campbell: on social media. Your click-through rate and your engagement rates are, 1% is great.

231
00:43:38.790 --> 00:43:48.499
Sue Campbell: So it's usually less than one. And that includes Instagram as well. So thank you for teeing up for that question. So I could rant a little bit more about social media.

232
00:43:50.203 --> 00:44:14.659
Sue Campbell: Chelsea says question about permission. I had to switch platforms for distributing my newsletter due to policy and cost changes. Yep, before switching, I sent an email out to my subscribers and invited them to resubscribe to my new platform. Very few did which tells me. They were probably the only ones actually reading the Newsletter since the others have given me their email once, would it be unethical to add them to my new platform. Great question.

233
00:44:14.660 --> 00:44:26.249
Sue Campbell: They signed up to hear from you, Chelsea. They don't care about what platform you're on. They don't know about it. You own the data, no matter what platform you are using.

234
00:44:26.600 --> 00:44:42.100
Sue Campbell: So you can absolutely. There's no ethical problem at all. In fact, I would say, like you want to, for sure. Move those people because they already asked to be following you. And now you're not bringing them over, and some of them may have missed that email. I don't know how many you sent.

235
00:44:42.100 --> 00:44:57.959
Sue Campbell: But yeah, you can move. You just download that Csv file from your old platform and put it up into your new one. Nobody cared what platform you're on right. That's not the permission that they're granting is for the platform. It's for you, so you absolutely can move them over to your new platform.

236
00:44:59.169 --> 00:45:13.679
Sue Campbell: Also, if you ever have questions about any of these things your email service provider platform has usually they have really good customer service to make sure you can stay compliant. So if you ever have a compliance question, you can always ask your email service provider and they will help you.

237
00:45:15.276 --> 00:45:32.450
Sue Campbell: Vicki says. Is it a physical reader? Incentive? No because that's pretty. I mean, you can do that occasionally, like you could run a giveaway or something. But it's pretty untenable to do, physical reader incentives. It's costly, and you'd be run into the post office all the time. So we're talking about a digital download

238
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:42.000
Sue Campbell: and actually, when your subscriber to my newsletter, too, we give you a big list of download sign up incentives like possible sign up incentive ideas.

239
00:45:42.070 --> 00:45:53.620
Sue Campbell: So it's something like a short story. A prequel, a list of reviews of crime, novels that you love, that you think people shouldn't miss that are very similar to yours. Right? There's tons of ideas.

240
00:45:54.058 --> 00:46:00.680
Sue Campbell: It could even be, you know, case files or backs back stories for your characters. Things like that

241
00:46:02.390 --> 00:46:16.510
Sue Campbell: anonymous says, what kind of content would I be creating for influencers? Could you share examples? Yeah. So it could be as simple as just like, I'm going to talk about this when I go on a podcast these are my stories, i'm going to tell or my talking points

242
00:46:16.967 --> 00:46:42.829
Sue Campbell: to. I'm gonna write a guest blog for somebody else's blog, or I'm gonna do social media takeover where I take over their account, or I'm gonna write book reviews for a platform. So any sort of it depends on the influencer. Of course. What kind of content you're gonna be creating. And when you pitch an influencer, you wanna make sure that you're pitching them something that's in line with what they already do right like.

243
00:46:42.830 --> 00:46:55.550
Sue Campbell: Not can we start a Youtube channel together? If they don't already have a Youtube channel? You wanna be like, Oh, you have a podcast can. I come on and be on a guest. Oh, you already do book reviews. Can I do a book review for you? Can I write one and have a guideline?

244
00:46:56.346 --> 00:46:58.170
Sue Campbell: So the great question

245
00:46:59.500 --> 00:47:12.200
Sue Campbell: Becca says, what do you recommend to use as an incentive for people to sign up for the newsletter? Great question, becca, it depends on your ideal reader. This is where another case, where, when we know who our person is.

246
00:47:12.220 --> 00:47:22.900
Sue Campbell: we could come up with a fantastic targeted idea just for them. I can't give you a 1. Size fits all incentive because it's really going to depend on who you are trying to reach.

247
00:47:23.120 --> 00:47:23.875
Sue Campbell: So

248
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:36.490
Sue Campbell: I recommend that you do the webinar and fill out and create that detailed character sketch of your ideal reader. And then, brainstorm based on what you know about that person. What could you give them?

249
00:47:36.540 --> 00:47:50.749
Sue Campbell: Right? Do you need to write a little short story? Do you need to pull together some old stuff that you have? Do you have like deleted scenes that you could pull into something? But think about the ideal reader you're trying to attract, and what would they be so excited to sign up, for

250
00:47:52.710 --> 00:48:17.650
Sue Campbell: Eva says I promote on the local market, have sold over 2,500 so far, week by week. My books are reviewed. Great way to meet people selling in a public space. Yes, absolutely. People sometimes sell like local book fairs, or even farmers markets. Right? It depends on who your ideal reader is, and if you know where they are. So I love that and the quality of person we can't. Usually most of us don't want to do like in person all the time.

251
00:48:17.650 --> 00:48:24.759
Sue Campbell: But the quality of a relationship that you're able to establish face-to-face with someone is so high.

252
00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:45.829
Sue Campbell: right. There's sort of a hierarchy of the quality of the connection that you're building, based on how someone meets you. Of course you can always grow anybody into a super fan. But like, if you're pulling someone in from a Facebook ad or an Amazon ad versus meeting someone face to face, you know, at a local market. You're gonna have a much stronger connection right out of the gate with that person who you met

253
00:48:47.240 --> 00:49:02.959
Sue Campbell: anonymous says, could you give us a specific example of what to say and exactly how to reach an influencer. It's a really big topic. I actually do a 2 day workshop to 90 min sessions of how to find and pitch influencers.

254
00:49:03.010 --> 00:49:19.280
Sue Campbell: So again, you've got to do your research, and like you've got to tailor it to that specific influencer. Yes, it takes more time, but it's so much more effective than just blasting like a press release. Those are just garbage right? Don't waste your time so

255
00:49:19.290 --> 00:49:39.760
Sue Campbell: I could give you the overview, which is that you're gonna research, that influencer listen to a couple of episodes of their podcast, read the stuff on their blog like, Re, figure out what it is they do, and then how can you help them serve their audience and influencers? Job is to serve their audience. So if you have an idea on how you can help them do that. That is what your pitch can say.

256
00:49:39.870 --> 00:49:43.140
Sue Campbell: and you really want to make it about that win-win, not about you.

257
00:49:43.200 --> 00:49:45.419
Sue Campbell: That's another quick piece of advice.

258
00:49:48.617 --> 00:50:03.460
Sue Campbell: that there's another question. This is pretty much the same answer. What can you offer influencers. If you have nothing to offer back other than your book, all of you are delightful human beings who have something to offer other than your book

259
00:50:03.930 --> 00:50:22.239
Sue Campbell: you all can like converse with people. Tell a story right like, tell about why you decided to write the book. Don't come at it from you have nothing to offer. Apart from your book, you absolutely do Tip. Set your brain to work on figuring out what that is. Okay.

260
00:50:22.820 --> 00:50:26.720
Sue Campbell: that's a really, really common one, and you all have something to offer.

261
00:50:28.820 --> 00:50:37.029
Sue Campbell: Oh, Becca, this is such a good question. How far into your book development? Should you start reaching out to influencers because we're building an email list

262
00:50:37.370 --> 00:50:48.810
Sue Campbell: as soon as you know the type of story that you're telling and who the ideal reader is who would love that story. You can start marketing and reaching out to influencers.

263
00:50:49.250 --> 00:51:06.739
Sue Campbell: Right? So again, you're not saying, Can I come on and just promote this book and just talk about my book you're like, Hey, you talk about. You know, this type of crime story. I did this crazy week research and met this crazy ex cop, and he helped me so much, and I can come on and tell your readers all about this

264
00:51:06.740 --> 00:51:20.820
Sue Campbell: quirky as cop, who helped me write my novel, right? You can do that anytime and provide value to that audience and then invite them back over to your email list. And now you're cultivating that relationship. So when your book comes out, you have a bunch of people who are ready to buy.

265
00:51:21.410 --> 00:51:29.010
Sue Campbell: So the longer you wait, the fewer people will be ready to buy the book when you release it. So keep that in mind from a mindset perspective.

266
00:51:29.910 --> 00:51:41.010
Sue Campbell: I am answering questions from the QA. Box, so do not put questions into the chat box, because I'm only concentrating on QA. And I will get through as many more as I can.

267
00:51:41.634 --> 00:51:57.345
Sue Campbell: Let's see, do you think it's important to market a book that caters to specific readers? Example, I make an action sci fi with less info dumping and more action. So I had to cater to readers with that preference. And how can this kind of book?

268
00:51:58.210 --> 00:52:20.690
Sue Campbell: how can this kind of book would succeed if it's only reaching out with certain readers if they might leave us. Or should I try to cater to another reader that knows nothing about my book? Okay? So I'm think I've got the crux of your question. Yes, it's really important to market to a specific reader. That doesn't mean we're leaving other people out

269
00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:27.990
Sue Campbell: right, as we know from writing fiction. When we give detail and specificity, it's very compelling.

270
00:52:28.350 --> 00:52:56.400
Sue Campbell: So we're not saying, no, these other people can't buy my book. I don't even want them to know about it. We're saying, I wanna focus on this ideal reader because they're gonna get it in their hands. And they're gonna be so thrilled about it. They're gonna help me spread through word of mouth. Those are the kinds of readers we wanna focus on 1st cause they're gonna help spread the word, and the more you know about them the better off you are. So I think it's great like Tagline to focus on that, hey? I write action sci that as

271
00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:06.819
Sue Campbell: more action, less info dumping. And your ideal reader is probably gonna know exactly what info dumping means. You could even use that terminology, and that can be very attractive.

272
00:53:07.100 --> 00:53:14.570
Sue Campbell: So again, that kind of person then gets it, and they're so excited about it that they start ready, you know, spreading it, and you get it through word of mouth

273
00:53:14.590 --> 00:53:22.277
Sue Campbell: so hopefully. I got that question. There was a little more in there, but Sandra says,

274
00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:45.849
Sue Campbell: mine is not a question, but a suggestion to my fellow writers. Reach out to your town and States Pr. Office. They love to highlight talent within the State Yup and or town or region, they will likely help you with media contacts. Yes, that is a great tip. It's a great way to get connected with other influencers, especially if your story has a regional. If you're like place based storytelling

275
00:53:45.950 --> 00:53:53.269
Sue Campbell: right? So your crime novel takes place in the state that you live in. You can get some press regionally from that. Absolutely.

276
00:53:53.880 --> 00:54:14.879
Sue Campbell: Eva says the majority of my readers are women. Over 45. I went to Women's Institutes around my country and sold a couple of 100 books in total awesome. I also contacted local reading groups and promoted my work. Great marketing tools. Yes, and that's the power of knowing who your ideal reader is, because then you know where to find them, and you know where to go. So that's a great example. Eva.

277
00:54:16.456 --> 00:54:44.339
Sue Campbell: Julissa says if I want to build an email list as I'm writing my still unpublished 1st book, can I reach out to people on Instagram. Or do you suggest other ways? You can absolutely do Instagram. But I want you to think more widely than that as well. So again, you gotta know who your ideal reader is to know what other audiences they might be a part of. So if, 1st of all, you may discover. Your ideal reader is for sure on Instagram, or maybe they're somewhere else.

278
00:54:44.340 --> 00:55:07.269
Sue Campbell: You may discover that your ideal reader loves a certain podcast or always goes to a certain kind of convention. So Instagram is a great place to start, if you already know your ideal readers on there. But you could certainly branch out, and while you're writing is also a great time to tackle the learning curve that's involved in marketing and practice. All of this right.

279
00:55:07.270 --> 00:55:14.890
Sue Campbell: it gets a little more stressful when your book comes out, and you haven't done any marketing or know anything about. You know what you have to face.

280
00:55:14.890 --> 00:55:28.919
Sue Campbell: and you get a little demoralized because you're not selling books right out of the gate if you choose. This is what I tell people. If you choose to delay your marketing till your book comes out. That is a valid choice. But then we don't get to be upset. That the book is not selling right away.

281
00:55:30.530 --> 00:55:52.790
Sue Campbell: Lou says, is that open rate people who've actually opened and read the email? Or does it also include people who mark emails as read open to get rid of the notification. So open rates are not as fantastic a metric as they used to be. Your click rate is a little bit of a better metric right now, Lou, because, yes, you're right. The people who just open it

282
00:55:52.790 --> 00:56:01.540
Sue Campbell: and don't actually read it are still going to be in your open rate. The other thing that can be in your open rate is people who've opted into an extra layer of privacy

283
00:56:01.540 --> 00:56:07.060
Sue Campbell: from apple, because Apple will just automatically mark those things as red.

284
00:56:07.310 --> 00:56:25.639
Sue Campbell: so open rate is still blows the doors off of social media completely, even when we factor for those things. But if you want to track a metric in your emails to keep an eye on as well. You can also keep an eye on click rate or invite people to reply back or engage in some way as well.

285
00:56:31.344 --> 00:56:38.029
Sue Campbell: I'm going to try to pick the questions because we're almost out of time that are most relevant for everyone.

286
00:56:38.040 --> 00:56:54.439
Sue Campbell: Vicki says, if you write more than one kind of book, I write nonfiction and mystery, should I have 2 separate lists, websites, etc. So the answer, Vicki, is, maybe what I like to do in this case is really evaluate. Here is my non fiction.

287
00:56:54.480 --> 00:57:03.819
Sue Campbell: ideal reader, here's my mystery ideal reader is there like, can I make a combination? Is there a Venn diagram overlap

288
00:57:04.150 --> 00:57:11.579
Sue Campbell: the kind of person who would read my nonfiction and my mystery? Sometimes there is. Sometimes there isn't.

289
00:57:11.740 --> 00:57:32.140
Sue Campbell: One of the other things you can look for is is there a similar theme that runs through both my nonfiction and my mystery like, do I always write about social justice issues, whether I'm writing nonfiction or mystery? Right? Then you can create an ideal reader who's really interested in social justice in both of these different formats.

290
00:57:32.140 --> 00:58:01.060
Sue Campbell: So you really have to look at your specific situation. If things are very far apart, right? Like, let's say, you're writing, you know, nonfiction for children and mysteries for adults. Yeah, those need to be 2 different platforms. I always like to look for a way to combine them at first, st if I can, because it's more maintenance, and it's more work for you to maintain 2 different platforms. So check out. And this. And this is a great question. So I get this almost every time a lot of people write more than one kind of thing.

291
00:58:01.670 --> 00:58:07.200
Sue Campbell: The other thing you can sometimes do. There's a great example of Annie Barrows.

292
00:58:07.370 --> 00:58:34.660
Sue Campbell: rights for children and for adults, and the 1st page of her website is grown ups go here, kids go here. And they're like cute little drawn sign posts. And then you're basically going moving further into the website. So you could do something like that, Vicki, again, depending on how closely related they are. Right like, if you're this kind of a nonfiction person, go here. If you're this kind of a mystery, reader, go here and just have that very in your face right on the 1st page.

293
00:58:35.250 --> 00:58:38.250
Sue Campbell: But it might still need to be 2 different email lists.

294
00:58:39.816 --> 00:58:47.669
Sue Campbell: Kagano says I'm going to convention in 2025. How can I fit this into the strategy? So conventions are outreach.

295
00:58:47.880 --> 00:59:05.760
Sue Campbell: So a convention is a prime opportunity to meet all kinds of people you didn't meet before and then invite them back over to your email list. So consider it outreach. Meet as many people as you can and invite them back over to join your email list. You should be able to have ton of people on your email list going to a convention?

296
00:59:06.680 --> 00:59:09.470
Sue Campbell: Very, very cool. Okay.

297
00:59:14.456 --> 00:59:29.449
Sue Campbell: Hugh says you mentioned Facebook ads, are they effective for soliciting subscribers? And if so, how specific should the pitch be? Yes, I do like Facebook ads for building an email list. If you have more than one book because you have

298
00:59:29.450 --> 00:59:40.589
Sue Campbell: Facebook ads are kind of you wanna, of course, get the cost down as low as you can. But generally Facebook ads are a little more expensive than other types of paid advertising.

299
00:59:40.590 --> 00:59:59.770
Sue Campbell: So use it for list building. If you have more than one book, and again know who your ideal reader is, so you could target them appropriately and advertise that that sign of incentive, that, reader magnet, be very specific about getting them to get the reader. Magnet. There's also a type of Facebook ad, you can run called a Facebook lead ad.

300
00:59:59.980 --> 01:00:10.530
Sue Campbell: and then you can hook it up so that it pushes directly to your email service provider. I recommend that because people are more comfortable signing up within Facebook. And then they get pushed to your email list.

301
01:00:10.570 --> 01:00:20.219
Sue Campbell: And you're very clear, like Facebook's got. You have to link to your privacy page, you have to be very transparent, which is good. So yes, I do like Facebook ads. In those instances.

302
01:00:21.590 --> 01:00:32.300
Sue Campbell: John says, how do you find details for the perfect reader? Watch that, reader, persona webinar with the link Michelle has in the chat, and I can answer that in detail for you.

303
01:00:32.390 --> 01:00:37.070
Sue Campbell: Mary says, which email provider do you use? I use convertkit.

304
01:00:37.080 --> 01:00:47.029
Sue Campbell: and the other one that I like and recommend to writers is mailer light. Mial, ERLI, TE, which I don't love that spelling. But

305
01:00:47.070 --> 01:00:51.069
Sue Campbell: those are the 2 email platforms that I recommend.

306
01:00:55.430 --> 01:01:01.590
Sue Campbell: Kl says, what else can you do? If you're physically unable to do podcasts.

307
01:01:01.620 --> 01:01:08.070
Sue Campbell: you can write guest posts. It's just a really easy spot to look. It does not have to be podcasts.

308
01:01:08.614 --> 01:01:23.960
Sue Campbell: You could certainly write guest posts. You can certainly do social media swaps. You can certainly do like all kinds of stuff. Go, look at some other authors who you admire and who are in your space and get some ideas of what they're doing to promote their book that's not podcasts as well.

309
01:01:25.083 --> 01:01:33.290
Sue Campbell: Okay, I am out of time. Michelle's gonna give me the hook, any minute. So thank you. All for your wonderful questions.

310
01:01:33.780 --> 01:01:53.530
Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Thank you, Sue, for being here. This was great. Thank you. To everybody who attended. We will have. The slides are up on the hub. Now we will have the audio transcript and the replay up as soon as they're done processing by zoom, and we have our next session coming up in about an hour, so we will see you then. Thanks everyone.

311
01:01:53.820 --> 01:01:55.859
Sue Campbell: Thank you everyone so much.