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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Welcome everyone. We'll get started in just a moment as you're filtering in. If you can see and hear me, go ahead and drop your location in the chat, so we can see where in the world you are joining us from.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Welcome welcome

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: as more of you start to come in. If you open up the chat, if you can see and hear me drop your location so we can see where you're joining us from.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: I see some familiar names already.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: North Carolina, Albuquerque, Arizona, Colorado, Canada, Uk.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Ontario, Monterey, Minneapolis.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Welcome everyone. Pittsburgh. That's near me.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Katerina's from Los Angeles will in Spain. Welcome everybody

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: alright, so it looks like you can see and hear me. Just fine. I am going to

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: move forward with our few housekeeping items, and then.

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Alex Segura: Spain, Sijia, Spain. That's a lovely part of Spain.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: We will jump right in. So thanks for coming back to our Thursday of Crime Writers Week.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: we have all of your replays and audio transcript files. Any available slides, any special offers from our speakers. Those are on the hub. I'm gonna drop links in the chat for you now.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and I will drop these intermittently throughout the session. But if you get a blank you can see each day has its own menu, and you can go through and see all of the replays that are up so far from Monday through today. And

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: those will be up

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: for at least 2 weeks, and then they're also moving to our community page next week. So by next Friday, June 28, th they will all be up there and you can watch on the event recordings. Page, you can also see replays from past writers. Week. So there's a lot of content available for you there now, today is our last free day of crime writers. Week tomorrow is premium day, and that is for our premium and premium pro users of pro writing aid.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Those individuals will receive email instructions tomorrow morning for accessing those sessions and all of the resources.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: If you do not receive that email, please let us know at hello@proratingaid.com, and we will be happy to help you out. If you would like to upgrade your account before then. You can also receive access to tomorrow's sessions. We have a special offer for you of 15% off your 1st year of premium or premium pro.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: And that is using a special code. Cw, 2024. That will let you access your 15% off. Discount the link to get to our pricing page is on the hub, and that offer ends on July 6.th So you can find out more information there.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: If you would like to keep talking crime writing with us, we'd love to have you over in our

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: it's private community of parading aid users. You is free to join you. Just log in with your account information, and then you can join our live event chat, which is where we're talking about all of this week's material and sessions and the event recordings. Page, as I said, is where you will go to view the replays. So we'd love to have you there.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Reminders for our session today. If you have a question for our speaker. Please use the QA. Box, and then use the chat just for chatting. We don't want to miss any questions, so please use the QA box for anything you want to ask, and

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: In the last session we had some folks raising hands. We can't unfortunately call on anyone who's raising hands. So just make sure that you are putting your questions in written form in the QA. And we will get to as many as possible links to any offers from our speaker. Are in the chat here, and they were also posted on the hub. So make sure you check that out.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: and I'm also going to share a link for our special survey. We have. I'll put that in the chat here in a moment. If you could take a minute to just give us your feedback on how you've liked crime Writers week so far, and anything you think we should improve for next time it'd be really helpful to us, and we'd really appreciate hearing from you and what you liked. So if I'll put that link here in just a moment. And, Amy, yes, lifetime premium members

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: are able to watch tomorrow's session. So basically, if you have a paid pro writing an account, whether it's monthly, yearly or lifetime. That makes you a premium or premium pro user. And that does give you access to tomorrow's sessions and resources. So like, I said, you'll get an email in the morning. If for some reason you don't receive that in your inbox or in your spam folder, let us know at hello at prorating Acom, and we will be more than happy to help you out with that.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: All right, with that being said, I'm so excited to introduce our speaker, Alex Segora. He is the best selling and award-winning author of secret identity which the New York Times calls wittily original, and named editors. Choice. Npr. Described the novel as masterful, and it received starred reviews from publishers. Weekly Kirkus and Booklist.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Secret identity was also listed as one of the best mysteries of the year by Npr. Kirkus, booklist, the South Florida Sun Sentinel, and More, and was nominated for the Anthony and Anthony Award for best Hardcover, the Lefty and Barry Awards for best novel, The Mccavity Award for Best Mystery Novel, and won the La Times Book Prize in the Mystery and Thriller Category.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: His next novel, the YA spiderverse adventure. Aranya Spiderman, 2,099. Dark. Tomorrow is out now from Disney books and Marvel press.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: He has also written a number of comic books, including the mysterious Micro face in partnership with Npr. The Black Ghost, the Arches, the Dusk, the awaken Mara Lave, Keeper of time, Blood oath stories, featuring marvel properties, the avengers, sunspot, white Tiger, Irania, America, Chavez, Spiderman, the X-men, Star Wars, and DC's superman, Sinistro, and the question to name a few that is quite.

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Alex Segura: Meetings.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: The record, and Bio there Alex.

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Alex Segura: Thanks for having me. Yeah, no, it's a it's an honor and a pleasure to be here. I'm excited to be part of

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Alex Segura: The really cool seminars that pro writing aids been putting up.

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Alex Segura: So yeah, I'll just dive into it. And we can get going. The big idea, for this panel or seminar, was talking about writing not only your own work, but writing in other worlds. And so, as you heard in my probably over long. Bio. I've written my share of stories in what I like to call work for hire situations, which basically means you're brought in to

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Alex Segura: be additive to an existing existing universe. So we'll we'll do a. QA. For the last 2025 min of the session. But if you do have questions. Please drop them in the QA.

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Alex Segura: Section so I can get we can get to them

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Alex Segura: once we get there and feel free to use the chat to kind of

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Alex Segura: brainstorm with each other.

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Alex Segura: But big picture. What I want to talk about is

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Alex Segura: how how you get these opportunities. But also, more importantly, how executing and writing these opportunities, writing these

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Alex Segura: work for hire opportunities is different from

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Alex Segura: working on your own novels or your own crime novels or your own stories.

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Alex Segura: so out of the gate.

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Alex Segura: What I'd like to is just throw a little bit of definitions your way. So in comics we call

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Alex Segura: our own stories create our own. But the shorthand is in publishing. It's like you have right. Your novels, like the stories you create on your own that you kind of own lock, stock and barrel, because they're your ideas. And you've published them independently. And then there's another section called Work for Hire, which is basically

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Alex Segura: Corporation X hires you the writer, to create a story for them that is usually part of a bigger universe, be it Star Wars, Star Trek, Disney

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Alex Segura: Warner brothers, what have you?

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Alex Segura: Because license publishing is such a big part of the marketplace these days. You, I mean every TV show or every like big picture

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Alex Segura: IP or intellectual property has a publishing initiative, whether it's comics or novels or

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Alex Segura: you know, sticker books, you know, there's a whole

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Alex Segura: secondary market for media.

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Alex Segura: and I think

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Alex Segura: approaching each of these things is very different.

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Alex Segura: I I do think there's in the Venn diagram of your work and work for hire. There is some overlap, so I want to talk about that as well. But I also want to

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Alex Segura: not to be. Not to poo! Poo the idea! But I also want to give you a sense of what it's like to write work for hire, and how it is very different, and how it is

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Alex Segura: for better or worse, much more collaborative

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Alex Segura: than writing your own work. So from I'll just give you, like a quick one on one about

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Alex Segura: how my novels work my novel, you know. Secret identity was my most recent adult crime novel, and I followed that up with Aranya and Spiderman, 2099, dark tomorrow, which was a YA

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Alex Segura: novel. But it was also a spider verse novel set in the marvel universe. And so

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Alex Segura: that's probably the best examples of

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Alex Segura: my own work versus work for hire. And I'll I'll focus on the novels because

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Alex Segura: I know this isn't a comic book Writers Week, though that would be a cool idea to have down the line.

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Alex Segura: So with secret identity, I I signed a deal with my publisher Flat iron books based on an excerpt, you know I I pitched the book and and gave them

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Alex Segura: kind of the the gist of what it would be, and then, under contract. I wrote the 1st draft. I wrote a detailed outline, and then I I'm an outliner. I should preface it. I'm an outliner. And so I wrote the outline, and then worked off that outline to write the draft of the novel. And I think, 1st and foremost.

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Alex Segura: it was my vision for the story I wanted to tell

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Alex Segura: out of from whole cloth, and I think the big difference

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Alex Segura: in telling your own stories versus stories in an existing universe is that

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Alex Segura: you're starting from 0 when you write your own novel, especially if it's the 1st a standalone 1st in the series. What have you? You're you're putting together the entire universe. You're creating the characters from 0.

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Alex Segura: but you also have final say on how these characters you know within reason you're obviously working with an editor and a publisher, but it's your they've contracted you for your vision, your story and your take. And so you are

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Alex Segura: the decider when it comes to, who these characters are, how they interact and what they do and what the action is, what the conflict is, what the narrative buildup and and resolution is.

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Alex Segura: and while your editor and agent obviously will have Feedback or

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Alex Segura: beta readers, or other people at different company at the company, at the publisher will have feedback for you at the end of the day. It's your vision. It's if you really don't want something to happen

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Alex Segura: within reason. It won't happen because it's your book. The big difference with quote, unquote work for hire is that you're being brought in as a piece of a much larger puzzle which sometimes includes, like meet other media

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Alex Segura: and and other elements that you have to take into account.

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Alex Segura: I wrote a Star wars novel, Po. Damn free Fall, which

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Alex Segura: is the origin story of Po. Damn, who was played by Oscar Isaac in the most recent trilogy of films.

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Alex Segura: And when I got the email basically saying, do you want to do this, or would you want to play in the Star Wars Universe? I I took a breath, obviously, and and counted to 10 before immediately, saying, Yes, but

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Alex Segura: The idea was, they knew that Po was going to be integral to the next film

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Alex Segura: the final film of that trilogy, and they knew that in the movie they were gonna hint at post time being a spice runner. And so

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Alex Segura: Lucas Film said, well, we need to flesh out this part of the story

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Alex Segura: in a novel. And so that's how that

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Alex Segura: idea came out because of the media. There was a little space for a greater story that wasn't going to be unspooled in the film.

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Alex Segura: they decided. Hey, we can do this

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Alex Segura: over here as a novel, and I'm giving you all this groundwork, because

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Alex Segura: it's very much how license publishing works they find little spaces in, like the greater media, especially for bigger, like cinematic universes like Star wars.

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Alex Segura: and I assume, like Star Trek and and Disney. You know, I wrote up, I'm writing a Bruno novel that's coming out Bruno from Encanto. You know. We don't talk about Bruno, but I'm actually getting to talk about him.

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Alex Segura: for Disney, and that novel's coming out in December. But that was kind of a similar situation where there was this space of story that was not explained in the film, in detail, you know, in if you've seen in Kanto, which I I guess everyone has at this point. You know that

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Alex Segura: Bruno Madrid did something or something happened that spurred him to leave the family, and eventually you figure out that he's he's hiding in in the house.

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Alex Segura: spoiler, alert. But

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Alex Segura: That's usually how a lot of licensing

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Alex Segura: license publishing opportunities appear, because there's a little gap of story in the bigger media.

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Alex Segura: So to go around in a bigger circle.

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Alex Segura: you have to already be ready to kind of play in that sandbox?

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Alex Segura: and I think the challenge, the big question I always get from writers or new writers who are either familiar with my work or are fans like we're all fans like

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Alex Segura: I was a Star Wars fan. I was a comics fan. I was a Disney Fan Spiderman fan

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Alex Segura: long before I wrote these stories, and and it was obviously

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Alex Segura: obviously cool to do that and continue to do that.

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Alex Segura: But I think at the end of the day you know the question I get a lot of the time is.

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Alex Segura: well, how do you get these opportunities like, how do you? You submit ideas? Do you like bother editors like. Do you pitch them

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Alex Segura: aside from bothering editors? A lot of those things are possibilities. But I think the key for me, and I think the key for a lot of people who get into this pipeline of doing work for higher books is.

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Alex Segura: yeah. I mean, that's 1 way to look at the Bruno thing. But I'm happy to talk about it more, if you wanna phrase it as a question jeopardy style. But,

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Alex Segura: My point being is

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Alex Segura: at the the best case scenario.

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Alex Segura: or getting work for hire. Opportunities like this is to show that you can do the work on your own meaning, have a track record

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Alex Segura: of being a published author.

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Alex Segura: Tell stories that kind of feel evocative of the work for hire you want to do, which is not to say Vamp, and write these novels in the hopes that eventually it'll be work for hire, like. Obviously, you want to write the novels that drive you, and you feel compelled to set to write

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Alex Segura: But these are the kind of things that I think will get you on the radar of the people that maybe make these decisions. You know, you show you can write a book. It can do well, it can get good reviews, good attention, good buzz!

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Alex Segura: And that's when they reach out to you and say, Hey, you know we saw X and y, we'd we'd love for you to pitch us a few ideas for for this or for that.

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Alex Segura: this are for that property.

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Alex Segura: The big, the big fork in the road, I think when you get these opportunities, and

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Alex Segura: I think a lot of people. Poo, poo! Poo! Talking about this is which ideas go where you know I'm I'm very agnostic about it. If I have a good idea. I'll I'll put it into the book I'm working on, whether it's my own own book or it's a book that is gonna end up being owned by somebody else. I think that's the most

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Alex Segura: immediate

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Alex Segura: way to do it. And you you kind of get to engage with them. You get to be excited by it. i i i'm a firm believer in obsessions guiding your work like I don't work in fandoms that I'm not a fan of I've tried it a once or twice, and it's very challenging. I find that it becomes homework.

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Alex Segura: if you're hired by Property X to write a novel. A novel is not a heavy, is not us an easy lift. It's you're talking about like at least 6 months of your life writing, revising, editing and reworking to create this thing. And so if you're doing it for a property that you're not super into.

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Alex Segura: and that you can't find your way into, and what I mean by that is taking something that you might not be keen on, and you can't find a path to become obsessed with it. And then I've had situations like that where I've gotten an assignment. And I'm like, well, I'm not really like SA big fan of X. But

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Alex Segura: I like this part of it, and if I can kind of lean into that.

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Alex Segura: then it'll work. If I have found that if I can't even do that

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Alex Segura: I don't want to waste anyone's time taking an assignment or doing something that won't be beneficial to everybody.

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Alex Segura: And I think one of the things, too, is a lot of these license publishers

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Alex Segura: and publishing companies that are part of bigger media.

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Alex Segura: They'll look at your work and and kind of figure out where you might be a good fit, like

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Alex Segura: The Podama novel is a crime novel in space, obviously in the Star Wars Universe. But it was very much in the same tone as the books I had released up to that point, which were 5

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Alex Segura: very gritty, very noir Miami, private ibooks and you wouldn't think that's a 1 for one translation to Star Wars. But 1st they did see elements that they wanted reflected

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Alex Segura: in in the work. So I think it's also that you need a degree of self awareness like this is the kind of story I'm good at, or these are the kind of stories I want to tell

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Alex Segura: pair that with the obsession of what you want to work on and see where the overlap is.

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Alex Segura: I know this is not. This is also not something that everyone wants to hear like. Oh, I have to wait for them to notice me there. I'm sure there are ways to reach out to editors. If you, if you do feel like you have the Cv. Or the resume already of having written a few novels that you think would be of interest like. I don't think there's any harm in sending books out to people that you think are

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Alex Segura: decision makers in these spaces, but I think the key is a

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Alex Segura: doing the work on your own books. 1st

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Alex Segura: be figuring out what kind of IP you would want to write like, do you want. Are you a big spider man, Fan? Are you a big Star Trek person? Are you a buffy, the vampire slayer? Obsessive? I am all those things, and I think it's also just being aware of where where your own inner fandom and obsession lies, and then

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Alex Segura: kind of trying to parlay that into an opportunity and

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Alex Segura: you know, some some properties lay dormant for a long time, like I haven't seen a buffy novel

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Alex Segura: in a while, and you know I love that show. I grew up on that show. So I think you know, some some properties are vibrant, like the Star Trek IP is very vibrant now, and with the TV shows and and discussions about the movies. Star Wars has been consistently vibrant since the last trilogy, and beyond

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Alex Segura: so it's really kind of keeping tabs on pop culture as best you can, and seeing where the opportunities might present themselves.

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Alex Segura: This is also something your agent can do. If you have an agent that you're comfortable with, that

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Alex Segura: is willing to do this level of leg work. I think part of it is telling them that you're interested in this kind of work like, say, Hey, I've written these novels and and these are exciting.

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Alex Segura: okay, yeah, Spike centered series would be great. I, the comic book publishing program has been active, and I know there was a another buffy novel, but

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Alex Segura: it definitely has not been as robust as it once was where it was like

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Alex Segura: dozens of novels

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Alex Segura: released in in its own like kind of continuity. But yeah, you should talk to your agent. Let them know that you're interested in doing X or Y, and this is why we have agents to be shopping you around and pitching you around and using their contacts in editorial and publishing

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Alex Segura: to say, Hey, I have a client so and so they've written X and Y novels. I think they might be a good fit for flash Gordon, or whatever it is that you're excited about.

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Alex Segura: So that's kind of the overarching big picture

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Alex Segura: idea of

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Alex Segura: worked for hire versus your own work, I think.

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Alex Segura: Yeah, at the end of the day you have to be passionate about both, and it sounds kind of obvious. But I've also talked to a lot of writers who are like, Oh, man, I needed the gig, and

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Alex Segura: I just kind of crank this out

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Alex Segura: end of day end of day. It's your name is on the book, no matter what no one's gonna know. Oh, this is an Alex book that he wrote work for hire. So I'm gonna give it less

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Alex Segura: of a read. You know you your. Your your name is on the cover, and also I have found it's not speaking for the entire industry. I have found that there is significant overlap

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Alex Segura: or engagement. When you write something, work for hire for a big IP.

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Alex Segura: And IP just means intellectual property characters, concepts universes.

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Alex Segura: when you write for a significant IP, that then that kind of filters people into

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Alex Segura: the more Passion Project stuff you work on like my crime novels or creator on comic books like blood oath, or the dusk, or things like that. I've had people come to me and say, Well, I you know I picked up your Star Wars novel, and I you know I I love Star Wars, and I'd never read a crime novel, but I saw that you wrote it. And so I picked it up. And that's the dream. That's what you want. You want these.

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Alex Segura: The idea of work for hire is that it gives you much more exposure to a very concentrated and dedicated fan. Base, like Spider man, is huge edge of spider verse across spiderverse. Both movies have been massive, not to mention just the cultural awareness of of the character.

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Alex Segura: the same goes for, like other IP, like Archie, I've written a lot of Archie Comics, and I still have people that come up to my table at conventions and say, Oh, my God! I remember you wrote Archie meets kiss, or Archie meets Ramones, and and I still have those, and that made me pick up

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Alex Segura: your spider, and you know it feeds both ways like sometimes people will like your work, and it'll take you to the work for hire. My point being is.

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Alex Segura: it's your name on the book

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Alex Segura: you have to treat. Even you have to treat the work for higher work.

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Alex Segura: With the same care and engagement that you would give your own.

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Alex Segura: your own novels. It's not. It is an assignment, and it is a different kind of writing exercise. But it's still your words out there. So that's that's my biggest bit of advice.

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Alex Segura: so you know, and when you're writing your stories, obviously the process is whatever you make of it. You know I am an outliner. So by nature

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Alex Segura: I like to structure things and know where I'm going. I've become such an outliner that my outlines get bigger and bigger and bigger with each novel to the point where for alter ego, which is the follow up to secret identity. And it's coming out in December as well. The outline, the the kind of growing outline became.

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Alex Segura: Yeah, Archie, yeah, thank you. The outline for alter ego became the 1st draft, like the outline, was about 30,000 words, and my editor was like this is the draft now. So you can just start working on this like, structurally, it's no. You're no longer just putting up

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Alex Segura: the pillars of what you want to build like you're working on the book.

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Alex Segura: that's just how I work on my stuff. My work, my novels.

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Alex Segura: If you're not an outliner

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Alex Segura: the big red flag I'm going to wave for you is that you will have to become an outliner to do work for hire novels.

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Alex Segura: In my experience, which is not all encompassing. But it is something that's recurred a few times

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Alex Segura: is they're gonna want, you know, there'll be the initial outreach, whether it's from you or from them. And then they're gonna say, okay, we'll pitch us an idea like, what is your idea? You know we're looking for novels.

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Alex Segura: You know, to keep using the buffy metaphor. We're looking for a novel about Xander. So can you pitch us an idea about Xander. And then you, as the author have to pitch couple of paragraphs about what your novel would be like. Okay, Xander becomes a vampire and and has to fight the buffy gang. This is all just off the top of my head, and you write a 2 or 3 paragraph springboard, one, or maybe one or 2 pages of detail.

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Alex Segura: They give you the thumbs up or thumbs down, and then.

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Alex Segura: oh, welcome! No worries that you're late Lou. Welcome!

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Alex Segura: You turn in the Spring Ward, and that's that's where it goes. Either they say Yay or yay, this is great or no rework this and this, or they pass. But let's assume, they say yes.

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Alex Segura: After that they're going to want

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Alex Segura: an outline, and

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Alex Segura: while I'm a detailed outliner for my work, my novels, I'm less of a detailed outliner for work, for hire. Because

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Alex Segura: just so, you all know that timeline is much tighter, you know it's not, you know, in traditional like adult novel publishing.

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Alex Segura: You have a deadline, but there's some negotiable aspect to it, you know. You can say, well, I'm running late. So we're gonna have to move the pub date a couple of months, if we need to, or you know there's a rapport with your editor where they're checking in on you and kind of seeing where you're at a lot of times with license publishing and especially publishing that's tied to Media.

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Alex Segura: There's no wiggle room like

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Alex Segura: for the pro novel. I had maybe 6 months soup to nuts from beginning to end to be done, which

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Alex Segura: meant like 3 months to get a 1st draft.

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Alex Segura: which is sounds crazy if you've only written your own work. But

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Alex Segura: I'm a pretty fast writer, and so I was able to kind of hunker down and just crank and write quickly and hopefully. Write well. But

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Alex Segura: I bring up that example because it was tied to a film. You know, it's was literally tied to the 3rd movie in the new trilogy. So people that saw the film like saw that moment between Zori Bliss and Poe Dameron and said, Oh, Poe was a spice runner.

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Alex Segura: They would then hopefully see advertisements for the book and say, Oh, now I can find out what happened, and you know there's no better commercial for your work than a major motion picture, or, you know, in the case of

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Alex Segura: Aranya Spiderman, 2099,

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Alex Segura: they timed the book to come out

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Alex Segura: around the time of Across the spider verse, where Miguel O'hara Spiderman, 2099, has a huge role in the film, and while my novel, The Edna novel was not

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Alex Segura: set in the spiderverse movies, you know, that happens kind of similarly, but not directly, tied to the movies.

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Alex Segura: It's close enough that people that saw the movies, would then walk into hopefully, walk into a bookstore and see this big display about of Spiderman stuff, and then want to pick up the book because

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Alex Segura: it's just in their head space. So

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Alex Segura: big. Picture, your timeline is going to be much more truncated. You're going to need.

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Alex Segura: You're going to need to outline what you're going to do. So hopefully, if you're an outliner great.

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Alex Segura: you may have to

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Alex Segura: outline a little differently, but you do have to create an outline. If you're not an outliner, you're gonna have to learn to be an outliner for this process, and

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Alex Segura: I think the biggest difference between writing your own stories.

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Alex Segura: albeit with a publisher and an editor and an agent. And writing stories in an existing universe is how collaborative the process is going to be.

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Alex Segura: yeah, I'm learning right now that writing the synopsis before the book is really difficult. It is, you know, what I use. The shorthand I use is this is the back cover copy. I'm writing the back cover copy. It doesn't have to include every plot, twist, or every like little thing.

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Alex Segura: but it has to be enough to

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Alex Segura: kind of engage the editor.

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Alex Segura: But anyway, work for hire is much more collaborative

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Alex Segura: and collaborative. Sounds like you're both on equal footing. You're not really on equal footing. You have been hired to do a job which doesn't mean that they will tell you what to do, and you just do it like, you know, you're not just a typing monkey, you. You've been brought in because you have a track record as a published author. They liked something about your published work that they want you to bring to their universe.

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Alex Segura: and because you're professional and can get the book done on time. That said.

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Alex Segura: I liken it more to. You're coming into an existing sandbox. You don't have to build the park, build the sandbox, and bring in the toys.

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Alex Segura: You are literally brought into the sandbox and asked to play with the toys that are already there. But they're not your toys. You don't own them. You don't own the sandbox, and it's already there. You can't really change it.

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Alex Segura: You can change it to some degree, but you can't

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Alex Segura: go. You can't break the rules of the universe. You can't destroy the sandbox because you're tired of of the sandbox. You can't

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Alex Segura: kill established characters, willy-nilly, I mean, there's opportunities, I'm sure.

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Alex Segura: But most of the time. If you're writing secondary. IP. That's kind of a

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Alex Segura: spinoff of media.

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Alex Segura: You're not, you know. If you're writing Star Trek a star trek novel. You're not going to be able to kill Captain Kirk. I mean, you can pretend. Yeah, you can create tension, but

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Alex Segura: they need that character for myriad other reasons, and they're not going to kill them in a novel

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Alex Segura: which isn't to minimize it just the way it works.

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Alex Segura: so you have to go in and be open to feedback, and sometimes feedback is

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Alex Segura: incremental doses like you get an edit letter, as you would traditionally, and they'll say this is the stuff you need to work on. This is what you need to change in the draft.

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Alex Segura: but sometimes it's on the fly like I think the best example for me was writing the Pod damn book, you know. I'd revised and gotten the initial edit letter. I'd revised and reworked it, and everything was good to go.

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Alex Segura: And then it was kind of around the time the movie had come out, and I don't know if anyone remembers this. But Babu Frick

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Alex Segura: was a character on Kajimi, which is the planet where Zori Bliss is from.

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Alex Segura: And he became so popular that

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Alex Segura: the editors reacted and said, Hey, we're we're seeing a lot of

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Alex Segura: engagement with this character. He's not even in the novel. Really. Is there an opportunity to have him show up and play a role in this.

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Alex Segura: and as a writer I think you have to take it as a challenge and as an opportunity like, how can I weave this into what I've got already and make it work.

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Alex Segura: and most of the time it you can do it. And I I find these things like a putting a puzzle together. It's much more like, how does this fit into what I'm doing? How can I make this creative? And how can I have this

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Alex Segura: be fun for me as a writer, and so I found. There's a little, you know. I don't want to spoil the novel, but there's a moment where Po and Babu Frick helps him get away from a problem, and that to me it gave the Fans and the editors what I think they wanted, but it also didn't

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Alex Segura: create a disservice to the bigger story. So

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Alex Segura: you have to be flexible with notes.

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Alex Segura: and that doesn't mean don't push back. I mean, obviously.

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Alex Segura: like I said, your name is on the book, so if you are not comfortable with a node or not comfortable with a change, because you think it makes you look

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Alex Segura: bad, or it doesn't work with what you are. Your vision is for the book. Then by all means, professionally bring it up and and let them know that you prefer this or that, and

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Alex Segura: a lot of times it becomes a conversation. And and you know most licenses or or publishing companies that are worth their salt, will listen to you and engage with you on that level.

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Alex Segura: But at the end of the day, when you know kind of the the rubber hits the road. Lucas Film owns Star Wars. Disney owns Marvel. Disney owns these character. You know. Whatever company you're working for, that has paid you money to write this book. They can say, No, we want you to do this way. And it's it rarely gets to that point. Because, like I said, you've created this trail of approval like you've gotten the springboard, you got the outline. You've hopefully written a draft that follows the outline like.

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Alex Segura: But even then stuff can change like I said. You know, like characters can come up that are

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Alex Segura: that are needed elsewhere, like sometimes I've had situations where I've worked on something, and the editor will say, Well, now, they're actually using this character somewhere else. So can you find a different character to use here that still, that doesn't like. Bring your house of cards down. And that's

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Alex Segura: I find that stuff fun because it feels like a logic problem. I think it's entertaining, but it can also be

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Alex Segura: disconcerting to someone that has spent the majority of their time working in their own headspace where you don't have to ask for permission to use a character you've just created them. But when you're you're working in like work for hire situations.

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Alex Segura: you don't have a free pass to do anything or everything, and it becomes much more of a collaborative conversation.

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Alex Segura: start. I keep talking about Star Wars, but Star Wars is probably the best example as an organization. They have this thing called Story Group, which is a collection of people that are immersed in all aspects of Star wars. They.

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Alex Segura: they talk to video games. They talk to the movie and TV teams. They talk to the novel writers, and they keep track of where things are and nudge things in certain directions. So everything syncs up because

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Alex Segura: Star Wars is different from say, Star Trek in that everything Star Wars is canon. So

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Alex Segura: if I write a novel it's Canon meaning it counts so the Po novel counts as Poe's origin, whereas in Star Trek the novels were additive, you know you could read a Star trek novel, and it would be fun. But

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Alex Segura: if Captain Kirk

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Alex Segura: there was a flashback to his youth that wasn't canonical, it it could be

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Alex Segura: negated by something in the movies or the TV show eventually.

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Alex Segura: whereas with Star Wars it's all part of this bigger tapestry which I think is really cool. I don't know if Star Trek is moving towards that. But

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Alex Segura: my point is

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Alex Segura: You have to be open to not only feedback and direction, but also the guardrails like, you're just gonna have to play within this space and be willing to do it and then be willing to bring in what makes you great or what they hope you're gonna bring into it, and add your own tone and flavor and style, because I think

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Alex Segura: what a lot of companies are seeing is that they don't want to bring in talent to come in and just read like anyone else. You know, they want to have different voices. They want to have diverse authors. They want to have authors that don't sound templated, or, you know, like it's a robot typing. They want it to feel genuine and new and fresh

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Alex Segura: and additive.

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Alex Segura: and that goes back to my 1st 1st point, which is

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Alex Segura: your ideas versus their ideas. These are huge

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Alex Segura: companies that have great IP libraries, but they're also always looking to expand. So if you're playing in these spaces like, I'm always thinking like, Well, how can I add to this mythos like, can I create a new spider character, or can I create a character that lives in Riverdale, or can I add a new bounty hunter to the Star Wars mythos.

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Alex Segura: and that to me is cool, because I mean, I could have never created a Star Wars character elsewhere, like there's only one way to do it by writing for Star Wars, or by writing a marvel comic, or writing a DC comic or Archie, or what have you?

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Alex Segura: So I think you just have to also be willing to

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Alex Segura: let some ideas go and know that, hey? Maybe 5 years from now, that character I created in this novel, this buffy novel

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Alex Segura: somebody will pick up and use in their buffy novel or comic, or

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Alex Segura: there's a new TV show, and they use that character. And I've seen author friends like with the new Star Wars show

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Alex Segura: talk about ideas that they created in the novels that are now being played up in the show, and you know that's wild. It's cool and or comic book creators who've created characters in the comics. Who, then are.

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Alex Segura: you know? Then show up in the Netflix series, or a TV show, or what have you?

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Alex Segura: yeah, canon does mean official.

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Alex Segura: It just means accounts in the continuity. But

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Alex Segura: yeah.

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Alex Segura: a lot a lot of pressure. I mean, yeah, it is a lot of pressure. I think the challenge

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Alex Segura: with writing characters that already exist is that there's an expectation.

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Alex Segura: you're kind of walking into a established fan base, and they have expectations and definitions for the character.

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Alex Segura: And I think a lot of publishing

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Alex Segura: the the the Downside sometimes is that publishers have to talk about these books long before they're out there, so you know, they'll announce like, Oh, you know, there's a new Zander novel set in the buffyverse, and Xander becomes a vampire, and if that's all, you know, and you're a fan of this character, and you don't want them to become a vampire. You're gonna get mad, and you're gonna post about it on the Internet or twitter axe whatever, and and complain.

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Alex Segura: And my thought is always like, we'll just read the book so you have to weather that storm and be able to navigate those things

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Alex Segura: with also with the understanding that

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Alex Segura: you don't have the same freedom

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Alex Segura: to kind of

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Alex Segura: talk about it without the approval of the people that own these characters, you know. If someone had said something about alter ego, or secret identity, or or the P. Fernandes novels, I could just go out there and say, No, this is not what's gonna happen like, you know. But if you're writing for a big conglomerate

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Alex Segura: and they don't want you to express that or to spoil something you kind of have to bite your tongue and and write it out, and and hope that when people engage with the actual work they'll like it, and and see what you were planning. And it's just another nuance to writing work for hire. That's very different from your own stuff.

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Alex Segura: I always wondered how the Disney Twisted Tail Series were able to be published. Yeah, it's a licensing agreement like Disney, the owner of the characters or the concepts will engage with a publisher and say, this is what we want to do. They'll come to a green an agreement, and then start hiring writers to work on it,

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Alex Segura: and I. And that's kind of what happened with the Bruno novel. They reached out and said, We we want to do a prequel to incanto focusing on Bruno like a middle grade story focusing on Bruno and talking about basically what happened and why, at the beginning of the movie, he's gone and that was seemed like such a huge opportunity for me.

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Alex Segura: For a myriad reasons, obviously for awareness, like people love enconto like I was at a birthday party last weekend for

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Alex Segura: my wife's cousin's daughter, and

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Alex Segura: I mentioned it in passing that I had worked on this book, and the parents eyes lit up like, Oh, wow! Like such a like this. We've watched that movie a thousand times, and I've watched it, too, like my kids like it, too. But I think sometimes you need that gut check, that you're not just writing this little insular story that is coming into the world as a new thing like you would with your novels, which is great and special, and it's yours. You're you're tacking on a story to this big tapestry of ideas. And

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Alex Segura: I think that's really cool.

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Alex Segura: Sorry.

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Alex Segura: See what else

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Alex Segura: 1 1? 1 1 thing, too, is.

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Alex Segura: you have to write fast.

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Alex Segura: you know, like a lot of people are not fast writers. I I've met a lot of writers who don't, who just admit I don't like writing. I I want I it's a very arduous process, and I don't like doing it, but when I do it it's very kind of meaningful, and and, you know will take years to to to get

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Alex Segura: a book out which is fine, like everyone has their like, I said. Everyone has their process. But you need a certain kind of process to write work for hire novels. And that's what I'm focusing on. But it also applies to work, for hire, comics, podcasts, or what have you? You have to write fast you have you can't really like with on deadlines without communicating, and that applies just professionally in general, like, if you're working on a deadline, and

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Alex Segura: you decide to tell them, like 2 weeks after the deadline, that you're running late, you

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Alex Segura: it just doesn't look good, and it doesn't help your reputation. I think communication is key.

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Alex Segura: but you have to be ready to write a draft, and by a draft I mean, like a 60 to 80,000 word.

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Alex Segura: 1st draft of a novel based on your approved outline within a couple of months, and that sounds crazy. Probably it sounded crazy the 1st time I got the deadline. But

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Alex Segura: the hope is, and for me it was helpful to have a really detailed and kind of well paced outline. So what you're doing when you're cranking and kind of jamming and getting all these words on paper is

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Alex Segura: the map is there? You're just flying. You've got the flight plan. You're just following the flight plan.

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Alex Segura: and that doesn't mean there's not room to deviate like. I had little detours where characters did things I wasn't expecting. It just becomes a much more truncated version of what normally happens for me when I have an outline.

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Alex Segura: Usually my outlines for my own novels are super detailed, but I still leave leave enough wiggle room that

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Alex Segura: if another character like

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Alex Segura: walks onto the stage and I find them super compelling, and I want to follow them for a little bit longer. I can do that.

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Alex Segura: You just have more freedom to do that when it's your book, because you can make the call.

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Alex Segura: But if you're writing a work for hire novel, you can't say, well, this is a Podmer novel, but I really like this character I created and introduced in chapter 7. I'm going to make the rest of the novel about them.

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Alex Segura: you know. Screw the outline I got approved. I'm I'm in charge. You're not. You can't really do that. I mean you could. It just can be really counterintuitive and not helpful to you in terms of like

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Alex Segura: your editors, liking you and and approving your work.

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Alex Segura: okay, I know we're we're entering the QA. Thing. But I want to see if there's any other points that I missed before we get into answering your questions.

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Alex Segura: One thing I did want to mention is.

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Alex Segura: you know, let your passions show in your own work, even before you get any opportunities and work for hire like I I think sometimes the best ideas are sporn out of frustration or spike, not spite, but, like, you know, publishing frustration.

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Alex Segura: I love Star Wars. I'm blessed to have had opportunities to write Star Wars. I also really like Star Trek. I'm a big Star Trek fan.

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Alex Segura: and for years and years, while I was working on the P. Fernandes novels, my 1st 5 novels.

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Alex Segura: I would pitch ideas and kind of try to chase this like

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Alex Segura: hope of writing a Star Trek novel, and it just never materialized, not because of anything bad. But

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Alex Segura: I really wanted to write something simp in in that

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Alex Segura: vein like a space opera that was really opportunistic, not opportunistic, but idealistic in how it looked at the future.

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Alex Segura: and so

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Alex Segura: there's no shame in taking ideas you have that maybe you initiated as work for hire or as part of a canon.

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Alex Segura: and if that doesn't happen.

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Alex Segura: we call it in comics. We call it filing the serial numbers off.

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Alex Segura: you know. It becomes your own thing, you just

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Alex Segura: it. It's yours. It's still your idea, so you can take them and transpose them and tweak them and make them into your own thing like dark space. A novel I co-wrote with my friend Rob Hart, who wrote the Warehouse in Paradox Hotel and Assassins. Anonymous.

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Alex Segura: It sprang from something similar like I. I had a bunch of ideas for different Star Trek stuff.

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Alex Segura: And I was like, I really wanna write this kind of novel. But I'm not seeing the opportunity here, so maybe I'll just write it myself, and just call it something else, but also change it enough. So it's a new thing. And that's really how dark space came to be which the marketing copy has been really smart in calling it Star Trek meets John le Corre because it is a grounded, gritty.

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Alex Segura: noir spy thriller, but it's also got the kind of high flying

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Alex Segura: vibe that you want from the best of Star Trek, so no idea should be wasted whether it's something that you had on your own, and then you're interjecting it into a work for hire book, or it's a work for hire idea that just didn't happen. And you want to use it somewhere else, and sometimes it happens within work for hire, like sometimes I'll have a Star Wars idea that didn't work for one project, but I'll save it in my back pocket, and an opportunity will come up

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Alex Segura: on another Star Wars thing where you can use them.

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Alex Segura: so yeah, my, my rule of thumb, for a lot of stuff is, you know, no idea is wasted. Just keep them, you know. I always keep a running list of different concepts and ideas. I have. I like to think I'm pretty prolific. I try to keep busy. But,

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Alex Segura: You know, you never want to waste an idea. You never want something to be a regret. Oh, you know, I wish I had gotten the opportunity to write that thing I really wanted, but because it couldn't be a Xander novel. I'm never going to do it, like.

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Alex Segura: you know. Follow your obsessions and follow your passions, because that's what makes for good writing, you know. I I'm not a believer in. You have to write x words every day to be a writer. You're a writer. Once you put pen to paper. I think you're the judge of whether you're doing the work you need to do, and the proof is in the pudding like, if the books come out and the books get sold and they exist. Then you've done the work.

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Alex Segura: But, I don't think you need to define yourself as a writer just because you hit a word count on every day like I don't write every day. There's some days I just don't have time to write. I have 2

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Alex Segura: 2 kids. I have a lot of projects in different stages that need different kinds of management. But

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Alex Segura: I know if I'm working hard enough to meet the needs of each project. So I think that's that's the best definition of the writer. The work exists, and you've made it exists. So.

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Alex Segura: Yeah, I'm happy to take some questions now that we have about 15 min left.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Alright. Thank you so much.

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Alex Segura: It was helpful.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Yeah, this was super helpful. It was different, very interesting.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: We do have 10 questions so far, if anybody has additional questions as we're going through these. Please add them to the QA. Box, and we'll try to get through as many as we can. So we have. Our 1st 2 questions are regarding fan fiction. Maggie asks, what are your thoughts on fan fiction and leading to right for hire? And Patricia asks, How does fan fiction fit into this.

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Alex Segura: I think fan fiction is wonderful like we've all done that. I mean, I remember as a kid or as a young writer, I would write fanfiction for different Ips like X men or Star Trek.

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Alex Segura: I think whatever weird stigma there was on fan fiction from a few years ago has faded away deservedly. So like it's a place to

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Alex Segura: hone your craft and like try things out, and I think

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Alex Segura: I don't think there's a direct pipeline from fanfiction to actual IP writing. But

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Alex Segura: I also don't think

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Alex Segura: I think it's a good way to practice, and I think it's also like, if you build a few great clips together that you feel like are worth passing along to an editor that actually makes the decisions for the approved canonical adaptations. And it doesn't hurt to say, Hey, I wrote this fan fiction. I hope you know maybe it's of interest. But also I have these

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Alex Segura: publish works that are my own thing.

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Alex Segura: that you can look at. I mean, there's a history of great fanfiction becoming other things like, I said, filing the serial numbers off, and making it your own.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Evelyn asks, is it trickier to get an IP project if the franchise is from another country? For example, Doctor, who in the Uk.

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Alex Segura: I don't think so. I mean it, really, you know, Doctor, who is a worldwide phenomenon. So it's something the kind of thing that I I've know American authors that write comics in doctor who. And it's really just a matter of it's all about really having the connection. And that's where agents are super essential, because that's their job to kind of connect you to the right editors when it's the right time, like.

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Alex Segura: You know, a good agent will say, I know you really want to write like a Xander like opus, but maybe not now, because we haven't published anything yet, and you're not a known commodity, despite, like

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Alex Segura: all the stuff you've written, kind of on your own.

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Alex Segura: Yes, yeah.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Is a great.

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Alex Segura: It did start as fanfiction. Yeah, there's a lot of moments like that where? It's a fan fiction type work. And then the writer changes it enough to make it their own. And that's that's just fiction in general.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Evelyn also asks, Have you done any international IP projects.

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Alex Segura: I haven't done like Doctor, who I mean.

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Alex Segura: I'm I mean IA lot of the IP I've done is like worldwide stuff, like Star Wars, or, you know, like

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Alex Segura: Superman, things like that that are recognizable around the world. So

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Alex Segura: I I would say, yes, but that feels like a cop out, because a lot of those most of those IP were initiated in the Us. But not something as not something that is like uniquely British, like Dr. Who? I guess not.

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Alex Segura: That's why I said, Yeah, it's British.

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Alex Segura: I haven't done Dr. Hoop.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Hey? I'll asks when you say outlier, do you mean plotter as in save the cat or the hero's journey?

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Alex Segura: Say that again.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: When you say outliner, do you mean plotter as in save the cat or the hero's journey?

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Alex Segura: Yeah, I mean the the big plotter versus pancer debate. I think most writers fall in the middle like I'm somewhere in the middle, like. I do like to plot out my story, but I also like to leave enough wiggle room to do other things if I need to like, I said before, but yes, outlining, I mean, like a plotter. You'd literally what I do with an outline for a work for hire project. Is you break it out by chapter. And you say, this is what happens in each chapter like

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Alex Segura: Po makes a daring escape, leaving his home planet to join the spice runners like. It's a couple of sentences or a paragraph for each chapter, and then when you get to the nitty gritty of it, you do the writing part, which is the hardest part.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Next question is from the Ford to asks, so how do editors keep these books consistent with a unique author voice? If they hire different people to write them.

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Alex Segura: I mean, it really depends. Like, I think I think a lot of times they're trying to pair the voice with the characters that they think match and and are additive to the bigger universe. That's much more a question for

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Alex Segura: the editor. I think the goal is to have diverse voices that

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Alex Segura: give readers a diverse

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Alex Segura: choice. You know you get to choose different kinds of authors, doing different kinds of things like you hire a noir, thriller, or author to write a thriller set in

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Alex Segura: the buffy universe, and that's what they want. So they reach out to authors that can kind of fit that mold. So it's really

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Alex Segura: up to them. I think.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: The forge also asks, Do you edit your assigned book as well? Before submitting it.

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Alex Segura: Yeah, yeah, you wanna

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Alex Segura: the book you turn in. You want it to be in the best shape you can give it.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: We have an anonymous attendee who asks, Have you done many work for hire positions where they allow you to have more control of the sandbox. In those cases. Do you have any tips for honing your focus and maintaining a consistent voice when feedback is minimal, my question is focusing on a situation where it's not your IP, but there's also not a ton of feedback.

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Alex Segura: Yeah, I've been in situations where you're in a sandbox. And

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Alex Segura: you're not getting a lot of feedback. But I also think that's also a level of trust, like they've brought you in because you're professional, and they know you can do the job, and some that's a good situation. They don't feel like they need to

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Alex Segura: keep you within the framework, because you're already in the framework, and you're doing the thing. So I I don't really take it as a

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Alex Segura: limitation. I think it's a validation.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Anu, and I apologize if I mispronounce that. Says when writing the Bruno story, did you take any of the fans theories, or did you have your own story going on in your head?

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Alex Segura: I had my own story, but obviously you have to be aware of like the fandom and what people are thinking like. I I didn't. I did not

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Alex Segura: go through message boards and make a document of different fan theories. I very much like had a loose idea. But it's hard also hard to avoid discussions when you're doing research.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: And Evelyn asks, so when you're outlining for a 4 hire project, you said you have to get an outline approved. I've heard authors talk about 5 page outlines, and I've heard some talk about 80 page outlines. How thorough and outline do you need to be successful getting it pitched.

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Alex Segura: It really depends on what the editor wants, like, I'll have a conversation like I'm I'm working on a daredevil crime novel for marvel

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Alex Segura: and the initial outline was much more detailed. And then we had to make some changes.

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Alex Segura: and then my editor said, Well, just give me an updated outline, but it doesn't have to be as long. It can be like a couple of pages, just really noting the differences from the 1st pass to the second pass. So I I don't want to say

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Alex Segura: universally. You should have a 5 page outline for work, for hire, like my personal outlines, for my novels like are long and become the 1st draft

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Alex Segura: or work for hire like it really depends on what they want. Some some editors want all the detail in the outline, like every little twist and turn, or every like big beat. Other editors just want a loose idea of what's happening, so they don't feel surprised.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: We got through all of our questions so far. Are there any final thoughts? You want to leave the attendees with Alex.

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Alex Segura: Yeah, no, I'm so thankful that everyone took the time to be here and to listen, and I hope it was like kind of made sense what I was rambling about. But it's, you know. I think the the key to this process is finding your passion, even when you're not even one. But when working on stuff that isn't necessarily your own, and and pouring your heart into these projects in the same way you would

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Alex Segura: your own work, because that's the stuff that really resonates, not only with editors, but with readers. You know, you never want to give the feeling that you're just kind of cranking on something because

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Alex Segura: you want the paycheck. Obviously, that's part of the the work. You should be compensated for your work. But you're you're pouring yourself into these projects in the same way.

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Alex Segura: and and chasing the same obsessions, you would with your own work.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Well, thank you so much for joining us, Alex. This is great. Thank you. To everybody who attended. I do have the links in the chat for you. If you want to check out Alex's website and check out more of his work and just learn more about him. We highly encourage you to do that. The link to the surveys in there. If you could. Please give us your feedback on Crime Writers Week, we'd really appreciate it, and we have another session starting at 4 pm. Eastern, so we will see you then. Thanks, everybody.

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Alex Segura: Take care, everyone.

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Michelle @ ProWritingAid: Bye.